kill switch and Lyen 18 fet controller

[mistercrash]

I sent a PM to Lyen about this but I'm hoping that someone can help me with this so I can maybe fix the problem today instead of next weekend. I have kill switches on the brake levers. I apply the brakes and it kills the power to the motor. That's the way it was with the old controller. I can't find the way to make this work with my 18 fet Lyen controller. I really want these kill switches to work because it's the law up here, power to the motor has to be shut off when the brakes are applied. The plug that went into the old controller is a single wire plug. After some investigating off the scooter's wiring harness, this is how I saw those kill switches were wired. Here's a drawing.

There is an E-Brake plug that comes out of the Lyen controller but I don't know if it has the wires I should use. My first attempt blew a fuse lol

Thanks

[mistercrash]

I forgot to mention, the E-Brake plug on the Lyen controller has two wires, one yellow (signal) and one black (ground). When I make contact to the Lyen's yellow signal wire with the single wire plug from the scooter, I get the opposite effect that I need. Meaning that when the brakes are not applied, there's no power to the motor and when the brake are applied there is power to the motor.

[itchynackers]

Is the brake button released when OFF the brake, and the button pressed in when ON the brake?

My ebrakes (and I have a lyen 18 fet too) have the button compressed when off the brake, and releases when on the brake. Its worked perfectly for years.

[mistercrash]

The buttons of my kill switches are the same as yours, compressed when off the brakes. So how is your kill switch set up connected to your controller? I searched this forum for an answer but couldn't find anything relevant. I know this is a simple problem to fix for many in here but it is beyond me, I can't figure out how to plug that single wire to the controller.

[mistercrash]

I got the answer from the man himself, Edward Lyen. Simple, gray wire gets off the converter and goes to the ground of the Lyen plug and the green wire goes to the signal of the Lyen plug. I know, some will find it amazing that I couldn't figure it out by myself

[mistercrash]

Well sadly the solution I got from Mr. Lyen didn't work. I proceeded to make the connections suggested and after 2 hours of taking the scooter apart to access the wires and making the connections, it's not working there's no power going to the motor whether I apply the brakes or not and the brake light doesn't work. Come to think of it I'm not really surprised that the brake light doesn't work because I cut the gray line which brought power from the DC/DC converter through the gray wire, to the kill switches, to the green wire, to the brake light when the kill switches are activated. This power was also sent through the green wire inside the old controller? So I don't know what was inside that old controller to receive power from the DC/DC converter VIA the brake lever kill switches that stopped the motor from working, but I feel that it is not present in my Lyen controller. I don't know what to do, I need those kill switches to work because I don't want to get pulled over and have my scooter taken off the road.

One thing I have noticed once I reconnected everything like it was before because I need to use this scooter every day, is by connecting only the green wire to the Lyen yellow wire, the power to the motor is cut and if I apply the brake lever, the power to the motor comes back. So is there a way to reverse this?

[John in CR]

Lyen told you to run +12V to the ebrake line of the controller??? I thought that was +5V stuff on those ebike controllers. With scooter controllers the +12V signal for ebrakes (as well as regen) activation which cuts controller power is normal. You should be able to tell which is the supply and which is the sense by measuring voltage between each of the 2 wires on the controller and battery negative.

Does your controller still work at all?

[mistercrash]

Lyen told me that it is important to not have any power go to the controller. He told me to take those gray wires from the switches and bring that to the black wire of the controller and the green wire from the old plug and bring that to the yellow wire of the controller. That gray wire is cut from the DC/DC converter so that no power goes to the controller. But it doesn't work. The motor doesn't work and the brake light doesn't work. I put everything back the way it was before so I can use the scooter but I'm back to not having the power to the motor cut off when I apply the brakes.

[Sacman]

Is the brake button released when OFF the brake, and the button pressed in when ON the brake?

My ebrakes (and I have a lyen 18 fet too) have the button compressed when off the brake, and releases when on the brake. Its worked perfectly for years.

Yes but does this mean that your brake switches are Normally Open (NO) or Normally Closed (NC)???
It only works if the switches are NO.

[Sacman]

Guys I have a Lyen 18-FET controller too. I'm pretty sure the way the black and yellow work is that if you short (or connect) the 2 wires together it kills power to the controller ...simple. And if you un-connect the 2 wires then the controller operates normally (throttle, cruise controll, etc). And all he was trying to do is tell you to extend those black and yellow wires to the brake switches.

Now this only works if your brake switches are normally open (NO) until you squeeze your brake levers (then the switches close). You'll need to check if this is indeed the operation of your brake switches using a multimeter. Don't just rely on looking at the push button on the switch.

But Lyen was also telling you to completely disconnect the brake tail light and the DC/DC converter from the switches and controller (hence his warning to NOT have any power go into the controller). This means your tail brake light won't light up when you squeeze your brake levers. Now I know you don't want this. I don't know if Edward Lyen made a mistake or you didn't give him the full diagram of your system.

You can keep your original wiring betweeen brake sweitches, DC/DC converter and tail light and simply use a 12v automotive relay to close the connection between the yellow and black wires on the controller. Here's your original diagaram with the 12v relay added in correctly. Notice that the black and yellow wires are on the Normally Open (NO) circuit. When you squeeze your brake switches the 12v that goes to your tail lights also energizes the coil in the relay and connects the black and yellow wires.

[mistercrash]

Sacman, from what I can understand from the way things are connected on my scooter, the power comes from that converter through the gray wire and goes to the switches, So those switches must be NO when off the brake. When on the brake then the switches are closed and the power goes out the green wire to the brake light and to that plug that used to be connected to the old controller. So the switches should be NO when off the brakes and closed when on the brakes.

I hope to have some time next weekend to work on this again. The good news is that doing it the way you say with a relay will be much easier for me. Only one side panel to take off and all the wiring I need is there. Thank you very much.

[mistercrash]

So I went to a couple parts stores to ask about a 12V automotive relay, one had none and the other had a universal one with 5 prongs. I didn't get it. I did a little searching on ebay and found this which comes with the socket, would this do the trick?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Premium-Universal-Automotive-Relay-12V-40Amps-Double-Throw-w-Socket-amp-am-/251055489603?pt=Car_Audio_Video&hash=item3a7412c243&vxp=mtr&_uhb=1#ht_2711wt_929

[Sacman]

So I went to a couple parts stores to ask about a 12V automotive relay, one had none and the other had a universal one with 5 prongs. I didn't get it. I did a little searching on ebay and found this which comes with the socket, would this do the trick?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Premium-Universal-Automotive-Relay-12V-40Amps-Double-Throw-w-Socket-amp-am-/251055489603?pt=Car_Audio_Video&hash=item3a7412c243&vxp=mtr&_uhb=1#ht_2711wt_929

Yes that relay should work even tho 40A contact is way overkill for your needs.
It looks like it's actually a 5 prong relay with 5 blade (male) connectors that is plugged into
the 5 socket (female) connectors that the wires are connected to.

And how wonderful...it even has the same wiring diagram that I drew up for you (how about that)

[mistercrash]

And how wonderful...it even has the same wiring diagram that I drew up for you (how about that)

Yes I know Must be a coincidence that I chose this relay. Thanks Sacman. Now I only need to know exactly where to connect the five wires of the relay socket. There's a black, blue, yellow, white and red. I'll take a crack at it. The black goes with the black of the DC/DC, the white goes with the white of the DC/DC, the red goes with the red of the DC/DC, the yellow goes with the yellow of the Lyen and the blue goes with the black of the Lyen. If someone tells me that it's right, I'll be pleasantly surprised. Yes I don't have much clue of what I'm doing but if someone tells me connect this with that and this one with that one and so on, I should manage to do good. Thanks again.

[Sacman]

And how wonderful...it even has the same wiring diagram that I drew up for you (how about that)

Yes I know Must be a coincidence that I chose this relay. Thanks Sacman. Now I only need to know exactly where to connect the five wires of the relay socket. There's a black, blue, yellow, white and red. I'll take a crack at it. The black goes with the black of the DC/DC, the white goes with the white of the DC/DC, the red goes with the red of the DC/DC, the yellow goes with the yellow of the Lyen and the blue goes with the black of the Lyen. If someone tells me that it's right, I'll be pleasantly surprised. Yes I don't have much clue of what I'm doing but if someone tells me connect this with that and this one with that one and so on, I should manage to do good. Thanks again.

Grab the relay and pull it away and apart from the black plastic connector housing that the wires are attached to. When the relay is detached the 2 objects look something like this.




Now look at the relay itself (the side where the blade connectors are sticking out of). You should be able to see the numbers of each terminal moulded onto the black plastic of the relay. But in case you don't see them here are the numbers of the blade terminals. It should be easy for you to figure out the wirning now.

[mistercrash]

I appreciate your patience and the trouble you're going through to make me understand Sacman. I didn't know the prongs were labeled, it should make things easier for me following your diagram and the one on the relay itself. From what I understand, there's one wire that won't be used?

[Sacman]

Yes, the Normally Closed (NC) terminal 78 on the relay is not used.
You're welcome. Hope it all works out for you.

[mistercrash]

Success, thank you Sacman, although I had to wire the thing a bit differently then what was in your diagram, your idea of a relay works very well.