(Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no problems

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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by fechter » Aug 16, 2013 5:30 pm

steveo wrote:
Have you had any cvt problems?
It was common for the clutch to 'judder' when it engages. Mine does it a little, but it's hardly noticeable. Other than that, no problems. When I change the CVT fluid, it has a magnetic drain plug and I'm always amazed at how little stuff is stuck to the magnet. The clutch judder always improves after changing the CVT fluid.

You can get the whole engine/CVT from a junkyard for quite a bit less than what a new battery costs. Supply vs. demand thing I guess.
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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by steveo » Aug 18, 2013 1:46 pm

I test drove a cvt just yesterday as im looking at this as my second car

It does have a judder at low end which seems quite harsh under heavy low end acceleration

I spoke to a friend of mine who is concerned it could be the belt slipping

He told me that if the car is in reverse and you stomp on the gas.. If there is still a "jitter" then its the belt and not the forward or reverse clutch

Could you try reverse witha fairly heavy acceleration? I have a feeling you car should not jitter..

Thanks

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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by fechter » Aug 18, 2013 6:34 pm

I don't think the belt slips. I think it's the clutch. This was a common problem. It uses a multi-plate wet clutch that's controlled by the computer. Once the clutch engages, you don't get the judder. Changing the CVT fluid a couple of times will make it better. When you change the fluid, only about half of it comes out, so you still have 1/2 gunky fluid. Change it once and drive for a week or so, then change it again, and it makes a big improvement.

There is a 'clutch burnishing' they try at the dealer when these came in under warranty. It was only partially successful. I don't think its worth the trouble unless its severe. If it judders too hard, it can snap the belt.
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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by steveo » Aug 19, 2013 9:36 am

Do you know if anyone makes a replacement belt?

Or do you have to replace the entire cvt?

I was thinking to change the starter clutch to avoid breaking the belt if i pickup the car

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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by fechter » Aug 19, 2013 7:13 pm

It looks like a LOT of work to take it apart. I have a factory service manual somewhere. I can take a look at it and see how bad it would actually be. There may be 'special tools' needed. Just dropping the transmission is a major chore. Getting one from a junkyard is a gamble, but probably cheaper. There are probably hundreds of these sitting in junkyards with no IMA pack but everything else.
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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by fechter » Nov 11, 2013 4:49 pm

So far, the replacement pack is working flawlessly. No noticeable loss of capacity and the temperatures are still barely warm. What is starting to fail is one of my inboard CV axle joints. Clock is showing 170,000 mi now, so something like this is not unexpected. The boots are all still OK, but the right inboard joint has developed excessive play and makes the car 'clunk' when hitting the gas after coasting. It's still driveable, but I know I have to replace it eventually.

The dealer quoted a list price of something like $700 for the entire axle assembly (one side). I found several places that have chinese made versions for under $70. Even if they only last 2-3 years, it would be a lot better than forking out $700. It's sort of a pain to replace, but not bad with the right tools.
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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by bigmoose » Nov 11, 2013 10:16 pm

fectcher I replaced both axles in my kids Civic and the others Accord a few years ago. I used the remanufactured ones from NAPA. They fit perfectly and both cars went another 100,000 miles. I think they were pretty cheap, like 50 bucks a side.
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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by Punx0r » Nov 12, 2013 3:44 pm

Definitely the CV joint and not an engine mount? I've only ever known inner joints to vibrate when worn.

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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by dnmun » Nov 12, 2013 4:01 pm

i was under the impression that the clunking sound was because of the wear on the tripod in the outer CV joint. too late for grease and i have used rebuilt axles in the past. but the best i got was about $89 then.

i had to work on my clutch. but i have my tranny almost back on now.

i had lost all freeplay in the clutch adjustment and decided it had a worn out clutch but when i got to it found a new clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing. i was totally stumped, even speculated that the clutch cable had pulled out of the swage on the end of the clutch cable to be so far off with a new clutch.

so investigated more and while looking at the operation of the throw out bearing i discovered that the throw out bearing return spring had the ears broken off and the throw out bearing had jumped from riding on the clutch fork to riding on the tip of the spring where it sticks through the side of the throwout bearing which ate up all my freeplay. just needed a new spring.

whatta hassle for a $5 spring, but at least it saved the $1k a shop woulda charged me to replace the clutch and pressure plate. i wonder if they woulda found the broken spring too.

the hardest part of the job is getting the tranny tail shaft back through the pilot bearing. the big nut on the outside is a formidable task too. i ground off the indented part of the nut so i could free up the nut but it still takes that big socket and lotta humping to get it loose. break the nut free while the wheel is on the ground and brakes locked. cheater pipe is essential.

i also replaced pan gasket because the guy had just siliconed the old one back on after replacing the rod bearings so it leaked bad, and got a new front motor mount off ebay too.

i discovered that the previous 'mechanic' had used an impact wrench on the pressure plate bolts and broke off one of the bolts. he just drilled it out and screwed in another bolt without even tapping, just blind into the hole, finger tight. so i had to finish drilling out the bolt and retap the hole from the back side so i could get real threads to torque the bolt into.

in retrospect i think that may have failed catastrophically if the finger tight bolt had come free and jammed between the flywheel and the block causing the motor to seize up at speed. so it was a good thing i guess that this happened but i hate pulling the tranny. gotta be the worst job there is. mainly because of getting the tranny back on that last inch.

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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by fechter » Nov 14, 2013 8:34 pm

I've never had the inboard joint wear out on a front wheel drive car before. When I lifted the front and turned the wheel, it was pretty obvious where the slack was. It doesn't clack or make noise, just slams when you hit the gas.

I've done the front axles on my son's Acura, which is almost identical. I used a cheap electric impact wrench from Harbor Freight to get the axle nuts off. I wasn't sure it would handle those, but i was plesantly surprised when it just spun them right off. Man, I could have used that tool when I did his timing belt!

The weather got crappy so I'm holding off on the replacement, but I now have the part so I can do it anytime if it decides to get worse.
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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by Hillhater » Nov 15, 2013 12:15 am

I once broke a CV joint clean off ( at the wheel bearing ).
Boy was that "inconvenient" .. London city center at 1 am new years day !
You should have seen the fix i put in place to allow me to drive it home .....using 1 wheel drive only !
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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by fechter » Nov 15, 2013 12:45 am

I can only imagine. :mrgreen:
I broke a rear axle on a Jeep once. That was no problem, I just put it in 4WD mode and drove home.
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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by fechter » Oct 08, 2015 5:14 pm

Well, the old Civic Hybrid just turned 200,000 miles.
200k miles.jpg
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It's still running OK but getting a bit shabby looking on the outside. Fuel economy has dropped a bit but still around 40mpg.
Since it was new, I've only had to replace a few things on it.
It's still on the second set of front brake pads.
The IMA battery was replaced and the replacement pack is still working OK, but is showing some signs of reduced capacity.
I replaced the spark plugs once.
A thermal fuse for the heater blower failed some time back and was replaced. $1.50.
It's on it's fourth set of tires.
Other than that, just fluids and filters. I change the oil at intervals around 8,500 - 10,000 miles.
The CV joint is still OK but there is a significant amount of free play in the drive train from something else, most likely the differential. Usually not noticeable except when going from coasting to throttle quickly.

I'm hoping I can find a used EV with enough range for me to commute to work as a replacement, but the daily round trip is about 70 miles and no charging at the work end.
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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by fechter » Sep 05, 2017 8:17 am

Well, it was the hottest day ever recorded in San Francisco, and the AC compressor on the Civic decided to blow a clutch bearing. Made a real nasty sound. I'm lucky it didn't snap the belt or I would have been stranded on the road. Odometer now reads around 220,000mi. I was pretty sweaty by the time I made it home.
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It appears the actual compressor is still OK and it still has pressure in the system. I can replace the clutch parts without removing the compressor or breaking open the system. I'm still on the original accessory belt, but I will replace that while I have it apart. Luckily I can access the compressor through the wheel well by removing the splash shield.

A couple of weeks ago, the small 12v battery failed and didn't have enough juice to engage the main contactor for the IMA battery. I think that battery was around 8 years old, so not bad.
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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by Hillhater » Sep 05, 2017 6:00 pm

Tough that the AC clutch failed, but good news that it is accessable for replacement.
I have not had such luch with AC clutches.
One in a Ford (Mercury) Capri failed internally, but it was impossible to replace without lifting the entire motor to clear the chassis rail ! :evil:
Another on a Citroen failed (100 miles from home at night), distroying the drive belt.
I figured i would just drive home as i didnt need AC......but did not realise that the same drive belt also worked a hydraulic pump that Citroen use to power the hydraulic suspension, steering AND BRAKES ! :shock:
I didnt notice initially because the system cleverly uses the weight of the car on the hydro suspension to maintain some pressure in the system. But the more you use the brakes and steering, slowly the pressure drops !
Once i figured out what was happening i "economised "on the use of brakes (manual hanbrake got a lot of use) ...steering, and actually tried to "pump"the suspension over speed bumps etc where possible.
I actually made it the 100 miles home , but with suspension on the bottom bump stops, no foot brakes, and incredibly heavy steering !
To cap it off, the headlights had to be switch off once i also realised the alternator was on the same aux drive belt and the electrics were running only from the battery !
So .. AC clutches are a component i am very aware of these days !
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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by whereswally606 » Sep 06, 2017 3:27 am

If you want your second battery to last perhaps get a battery cycler from Peter Perkins on insight central.net. I have had a grid charger on my NiMH pack on my Honda insight MK1 for years. Essentially his cycler is a 0.3amp charger and a big resistor (to discharge) it basically chargers and discharges the batteries slowly and repeatly to aim to bring some of the failing cells into line with the better ones. It a bit of a band aid fix but cheaper that a new hybrid battery. You could probs build one yourself fechter.

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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by fechter » Sep 06, 2017 8:38 am

whereswally606 wrote:If you want your second battery to last perhaps get a battery cycler from Peter Perkins on insight central.net. I have had a grid charger on my NiMH pack on my Honda insight MK1 for years. Essentially his cycler is a 0.3amp charger and a big resistor (to discharge) it basically chargers and discharges the batteries slowly and repeatly to aim to bring some of the failing cells into line with the better ones. It a bit of a band aid fix but cheaper that a new hybrid battery. You could probs build one yourself fechter.

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I have a grid charger that I use periodically to balance charge the pack. It seems once the cells start to go, nothing really brings them back but balancing does seem to have some benefit.

The kit I got requires I reuse the old pulley so I had to get the failed bearing out of it. The bearing was 'staked' into the pulley with indentations around the edge of the bearing. I had to mill these away before pressing out the bearing. Even then, it was really tight. I managed to get the bearing out using my bench vise, some wood blocks and a large wrench socket to press with.

New bearing, coil and clutch plate are on the way.
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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by steveo » Sep 08, 2017 5:25 pm

love seeing the progress and your experience with the civic hybrid you have. I came so close to buying one.. but i decided not to because it had 300k's and the cvt was making a loud noise when accelerating from a stop. I sold my highly modified honda insight in feb 2016. I've been enjoying my kia soul ev since. I'm full electric.. 1 gasser in the house left. The wife doesn't want to let go of petro car.. However with work being so close for me, I'm using the gaser to get to work now a days.. and letting the wife take the ev.. shes now more comfortable, the range anxiety gets you at the beginning when owning a limited range ev.. but i never think about it now a days, i just know when she needs to be juiced and make sure shes got plenty if i intend to go somewhere far.. and if i do .. where am i charging next... do they have level 3 chademo etc...

Get a ev if you can afford it, even a used leaf or a soul ev are much cheaper now a days..

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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by fechter » Sep 12, 2017 1:49 pm

I'm still thinking about a real electric car, but have a pretty long commute and limited charging opportunities.

Repairing the AC clutch on the old HCH was pretty tough. Limited access through the wheel well, poor lighting conditions, and hot weather made it a difficult job. The old clutch coil was completely toasted and apparently shorted out at some point, blowing the fuse and putting itself out of misery. When reassembling the clutch pulley, I found that the bearing had seized and spun on the compressor body, wearing it down to the point where the clearance was excessive. Normally this would mean a new compressor but I'm cheap. I made a mold out of a section of PVC pipe that had just the right ID to fit the bearing support. I greased the inside with silicone grease to make it not stick, then added a big blob of epoxy to the area where it was worn down and applied the mold. Once the epoxy got half hard, I peeled it off and used a razor blade to trim away the excess. It went together good after that and everything actually works.


Epoxy mold:
Img_0504a.jpg
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Toasted coil:
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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by Hillhater » Sep 12, 2017 5:11 pm

You are in danger of ending up like me fechter.....mentally scared by memories of AC clutches ! :twisted:
EDIT..
This has your name written all over it fechter... :wink:
http://www.caradvice.com.au/583502/hond ... qus_thread
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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by fechter » Sep 13, 2017 7:26 pm

Ok, now I got a code from the IMA pack on my way to work. P 1449, overheating battery module. Geez, it's getting to be like playing whack a mole. This is the first time it has thrown a code on this pack. The pack had a 3 year warranty and made it a little over 4. Not as good as the original pack for sure.
I suspect having the car sitting for a week waiting for parts allowed enough self-discharge to throw the pack out of balance more than normal. I will try balance charging, which might clear the code for a while, but I know it won't be long before the code won't stay cleared.
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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by fechter » Nov 04, 2017 10:43 pm

Well, the end of an era. I sold off the old Civic before it became too difficult. The pack was throwing codes and doesn't have long to live. Once it throws a code, it sets the Check Engine light, at which point it won't pass a smog check, which is required before you can sell a car in California. It sat around for about two weeks while I was on vacation and I knew this was asking for trouble, as the pack will self-discharge unevenly and get out of balance again. I was on my way to the smog check place and the damn IMA light came on about half way there. Turn around.

I balance charged the pack again, and reset the computers. Then I have to drive it around enough to set the emissions readiness monitors in the ECU. Hopefully get them all set before the IMA light comes on again. After three drive cycles, I finally got the green light on the scan tool, so went right to the smog check place. With this model, all they do for a smog check is to use a scan tool and look for codes. They don't even measure the exhaust. I knew it would pass, and it did. The guy at the smog check place decided he wanted to buy the car, so I sold it to him for $1k. It was in pretty good shape other than the pack. Body was still nice, no dents.

Final odometer reading:
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So, from new, only a few things needed replacing. Replaced the front brake pads once, around 110,000mi and they still had about 50% left when I sold it. A thermal fuse in the HVAC blower went out, which I replaced. AC clutch as seen above. Main IMA pack, two 12v batteries, several sets of tires, wiper blades, oil filters, normal maintenance items. Really not bad over it's lifespan.

I'm driving the Prius now. Bye bye!
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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by swbluto » Nov 05, 2017 8:32 am

120,000miles over 8 years -> 15,000 miles a year.

That's not too bad, I thought a really long commute would rack up at least 30,000 miles a year. Did you start using the BART? (For me, hypothetically, the commute would be 35 miles one way, so 70 miles/day * 5 days a week * 50 weeks / year = 17,500 miles/year. Oh, well, I guess the implied 60miles/day probably is a "long commute" considering some 70-80%(?) of commutes are under 15 miles/day. Or was that 15 miles one way, so under 30 miles a day? 30 miles one way a day wouldn't be too surprising for the bay area, real estate prices are insane, presumably due in part to the huge influx of money from the internet companies concentrated into the san fran area with the rise of the internet past 1995.)

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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no prob

Post by fechter » Nov 05, 2017 11:43 am

My commute is about 45 miles round trip. Give or take a few miles for driving around looking for a parking space. Some days I used a different car.
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Re: (Was) Honda Civic Hybrid goes 100,000 miles with no problems

Post by MitchJi » Nov 25, 2017 3:08 pm

No BART between Marin and S.F.
Best Wishes!

Mitch


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