Nissan Leaf EV

[Cackalacka]

Good post, Toshi, I caught this perusing TruthAboutCars.com (aka Glibertarian/Corporatarians who are entitled to all of their children's resources and enjoy trashing alternative modes of propulsion) earlier this week.

The only real question I have is: will this be marketed to the general public before my '96 Accord with 200k+ miles on the odometer makes its final trip to the service station.

I do dig the trailer idea that spinning magnets has; getting to and from the beach or mountains (~150 miles each direction) would be a key component I'd like to add to a commuter vehicle.

[Toshi]

The battery was made in flat modules to help achieve the skateboard configuration, and it uses a Lithium-manganese formula with 48 packs using 4-cells each. Each pack is 3.5 kg, for a total of 200 kg...but voltage?...

Not sure yet, but here are some pix:

cool pix

where in the US will the Leaf be offered initially? the answer:

1) oregon (unspecified, probably portland)
2) seattle
3) san diego
4) tennessee (also unspecified)
5) phoenix and tucson

Nissan is wasting little time planning for the release of its Leaf electric car. Perhaps the details of the car's U.S. launch were so slim at launch is because Nissan was waiting for the official announcement of the Obama administration's $2.4 billion investment into electric vehicles and the infrastructure needed to support them, $99.8 million of which has been awarded to eTec, a division of ECOtality that specializes in electric vehicle charging systems.

That sum of money (to be matched by "regional project participants") will allow eTec to install 2,500 EV charging stations in the states of Tennessee and Oregon, along with San Diego, CA; Seattle, WA; and the Phoenix/Tucson region in Arizona. Of course, chargers aren't any good without any vehicles to use them, so Nissan has pledged to support the project with up to 1,000 new Leaf EVs in each of these selected markets.

This announcement puts retail sales of the upcoming Leaf two years ahead of the previously planned schedule. Nissan hopes to gather information on the charging patterns of these initial 5,000 Leaf owners, so buyers will need to agree to carry an on-board data logger that will be monitored by the automaker and the U.S. Department of Energy.

(source, complete with press release: http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/06/niss ... ive-major/ )

i'd live in the first three places! hopefully the infrastructure and the car will be there and well established by the time i'm looking for fellowship programs after finishing up my residency in 2013.

[MitchJi]

Hi,

The only real question I have is: will this be marketed to the general public before my '96 Accord with 200k+ miles on the odometer makes its final trip to the service station.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/08/06/nissan-to-begin-retail-sales-of-leaf-ev-next-year-in-five-major/

Nissan to begin retail sales of 5,000 Leaf EVs next year in major U.S. markets

Nissan is wasting little time in planning for the release of its recently-announced Leaf electric car. Perhaps the reason details of the car's U.S. launch were so slim at launch is because Nissan was waiting for the official announcement of the Obama administration's $2.4 billion investment into electric vehicles and the infrastructure needed to support them, $99.8 million of which has been awarded to eTec, a division of ECOtality that specializes in electric vehicle charging systems.

That sum of money (to be matched by "regional project participants"), will allow eTec to install 2,500 EV charging stations in Tennessee, Oregon, San Diego, Seattle and the Phoenix/Tucson region in Arizona. Of course, chargers aren't any good without any vehicles to plug into them, so Nissan has pledged to support the project with up to 1,000 new Leaf EVs in each of these selected markets.

This announcement puts retail sales of the upcoming Leaf two years ahead of the previously-planned schedule. Nissan hopes to gather information on the charging patterns of these initial 5,000 Leaf owners, so buyers will need to agree to carry an onboard data logger that will be monitored by the automaker and the U.S. Department of Energy.

Official press release.

NISSAN SUPPORTS ELECTRIC VEHICLE & INFRASTRUCTURE DEPLOYMENT PROJECT

Dept. of Energy Grant Helps Ready Markets for Zero Emissions

FRANKLIN, Tenn. (Aug. 5, 2009) – The U.S. Department of Energy today announced a grant for the largest deployment of electric vehicles (EVs) and charging infrastructure ever undertaken. Nissan is supporting the lead grant applicant, Electric Transportation Engineering Corp. (eTec), by pledging to make available up to 1,000 Nissan LEAF zero-emission electric vehicles in each of five major markets. Nissan, through the Renault-Nissan Alliance, is committed to being a global leader in zero-emission vehicles.

The $99.8 million grant to eTec, which will be matched by regional project participants for a project valued at approximately $199.6 million, is for installation of approximately 2,500 charging stations in each of the selected markets – Tennessee, Oregon, San Diego, Seattle and the Phoenix/Tucson region. The project also involves the deployment of up to 1,000 Nissan LEAF zero-emission vehicles in each market.

The project will collect and analyse data characterising vehicle use in diverse topographies and climate conditions, evaluate the effectiveness of charging infrastructure, and conduct trials of various revenue systems for commercial and public charging infrastructure. To test and analyse electric vehicle usage and charging patterns in a simulated, mature charging environment, the deployment of charging infrastructure will target major population areas.

"Nissan appreciates the support of the Department of Energy in helping jumpstart the electrification of the transportation sector," said Scott Becker vice president, Legal and General Counsel, Nissan North America. "This is a major step in promoting zero-emission mobility in the United States. Nissan is looking forward to partnering with eTec to help make electric cars a reality and to help establish the charging networks in key markets."

"This project will enhance America's leadership role in clean electric transportation and exemplifies the Department of Energy's strategic foresight and commitment to improving our environment, economy and energy independence," said Jonathan Read, president and CEO, ECOtality, parent company of eTec. "By developing a rich charge infrastructure in each market, this project will enable a successful consumer experience among early EV adopters and increase market demand for electric transportation."

Nissan on Aug. 2 introduced the Nissan LEAF, the world's first affordable, zero-emission car. Designed specifically for a lithium-ion battery-powered chassis, Nissan LEAF is a medium-size hatchback that comfortably seats five adults and has a range of 100 miles to satisfy real-world consumer requirements. The Nissan LEAF will launch in the United States in late 2010. U.S. production will begin in late 2012 at Nissan's manufacturing facility in Smyrna, Tenn.

The Renault-Nissan Alliance has begun zero-emissions vehicle initiatives in Kanagawa Prefecture and Yokohama in Japan, as well as in Israel, Denmark, Portugal, Monaco, the UK, France, Switzerland, Ireland, China and Hong Kong. In the United States, the Alliance is exploring ways to promote zero-emission mobility and the development of an EV infrastructure in the State of Tennessee, the State of Oregon, Sonoma County (CA) and San Diego in California, Phoenix and Tucson, Ariz., Seattle, and Raleigh, N.C.

[TylerDurden]

We know somebody in Franklin...

[John in CR]

I have trouble getting past the fact that the car can be purchased, but the battery pack is only leased. That twist to continue the mandatory monthly payments to "the man" is a deal killer for me. Hopefully Eestor really does show the goods in September. Then the bottom will fall out of lithium battery prices in a short time. It's great that Nissan is the first to the punch, since it's definitely the future (other than the silly quick charge stations), but I'm not going to be the same guy that bought the $800 VCR.

John

[deronmoped]

It's hard to keep up with technology, I was figuring that after the volt came out, all the other manufactures would be stepping up to the plate. It's happening even quicker then most people are aware, who else is going to come out of the woodwork now that the gauntlet has been thrown down, Honda, Toyota?

Five years from now these electrics will be common place, I even saw a Tesla parked out in front of the neighbors house a few months back.

Deron.

[OneWayTraffic]

no, it has top speed of 87, 100 mile range, 108hp, 24kWh pack. looks like it weighs about 1800lbs. torque at 208Nm is about 50 times your hubmotor

Dogman is quite right. It's like the range calculations of regular electric bikes. Sure you're going to get 30miles out of a 10ah battery. If you slow down and pedal hard that is.

24kWh is the same energy as contained in roughly 2 litres of petrol. That's about 3/5 a gallon of gas for you Americans. Electric motors may be twice as efficient as ICEs but still that's a big ask out of so little battery power. How many cars get 100miles to the gallon?

That's claiming an efficiency of 240 Wh/mile or 150 Wh/km. It will be interesting to see if this pans out. But no way is it going to pan out if the motor is running flat out, full throttle.

Still even a 50mile range would be plenty.

[MitchJi]

Hi,

http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/08/04/peak-oil-nissans-leaf-and-why-ontario-is-doing-the-right-thing/

This is a slick-looking car, one that promises to be affordably priced. And unlike other offerings, the battery will be leased, putting all the risk in the hands of Nissan.

I have trouble getting past the fact that the car can be purchased, but the battery pack is only leased. That twist to continue the mandatory monthly payments to "the man" is a deal killer for me.

John

I think both Tyler and John are missing the point. Wether the lease is a good deal or not depends on the price of the lease. Nissan could lease the battery at an extremely attractive price that could cost less for most users than buying gas for similar miles driven or they could sell the car for cheap and try to make it back on the battery lease.

Ultimately the main issue with EV's is battery cost. If Nissan wants the LEAF to succeed they are going to need to try to find a solution that works for both Nissan and buyers.

[jag]

Wether the lease is a good deal or not depends on the price of the lease. Nissan could lease the battery at an extremely attractive price that could cost less for most users than buying gas for similar miles driven or they could sell the car for cheap and try to make it back on the battery lease.

Ultimately the main issue with EV's is battery cost. If Nissan wants the LEAF to succeed they are going to need to try to find a solution that works for both Nissan and buyers.

I would not be surprised if they sell the car at a discount and plan to make money on the battery lease. Look and learn from cellphone carriers.

[dnmun]

i think this is legal stuff that is tied to the incentives the japanese guvment is providing. plus by leasing the packs then they can regain control of them if there is a problem in the future that exposes them to liability. so the customer would not be able to hold onto the batteries if NEC decided they were a risk. gives them a legal out. jmho.

plus the lease is the 'amortization' part of the fuel cost so it would be like normal fuel purchases in impact on the consumer.

[BeninTucson]

Since I live in one of the designated test cities, I'll be seeing these on the streets sooner than most. Here's how the local press has mapped out the charging station situation for the big Arizona cities . . .

http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/303793

I figure I've got a few more good years on my '95 Saturn (getting my teenage son through his driving lessons with that old crate while absorbing the resultant insurance payment bump on that car) and then I can start making a serious consideration on an EV like this as they become commonplace.

The current body style is kinda middle-of-the-road but I suppose it could be worse. Although not as aerodynamically slippery, I wouldn't mind a variation on the current Cube with electric power (Nissan, after all, used an older version of that body shell to run their tests on EV powertrains for the Leaf these past couple of years.) I'm just glad to see some forward motion on something like this after so many years of stalled action on EVs.

The "buy the car but lease the battery" idea was slightly off-putting to me at first. But then I thought out some scenarios. It stands to reason that battery technology will only get better over the useful lifespan of the car. The rental fee for "100 mile" batteries will likely drop as "150 mile" packs come online (and so on.) The well healed can always buy their own batteries and forgo renting. Aftermarket companies will pop up to offer their own versions of batteries to fit this or that EV. The technically adept who don't mind voiding warranties will "roll their own" (the concept of the hot rod may go through a growth period not seen since the 1950 and 60s.) Most will probably just rent the best version of the stock batteries provided by the dealer and get on with fetching their groceries with minimal fuss.

Ben in Tucson

[Toshi]

link courtesy of the other, separate thread. merging and quoting it here.

LAtimes: Getting a charge out of Nissan's Leaf

The Nissan Leaf is described as "sweet, glycerin smooth, techy, frisky and even a little bit beautiful." (Don Bartletti / Los Angeles Times / November 13, 2009)

By Dan Neil
November 20, 2009

This thought came to me as I was piloting the Nissan Leaf electric vehicle prototype around Dodger Stadium last Friday: When gasoline-powered cars sleep at night, they dream of being electric.

Think about it: Every year, automotive engineers find new ways to smooth more rough edges off the conventional automobile. For example, long gone are the rude jolts that used to accompany gear changes in automatic transmissions. These have been ironed out either by continuously variable transmissions (which have no stepped gear intervals) or by sophisticated suites of computer programming that modulate engine torque at the precise moments of gear change. Even set-to-kill sports cars like Ferraris and Lamborghinis and Porsches -- cars that used to wrench your neck like a Leavenworth hanging -- now shift gears with a kind of eerie, liquid transparency. The only things that change are engine pitch and the needle on the tachometer.

This level of refinement, which is such a struggle to achieve in conventional cars, is a birthright of electric cars. In the Leaf -- an all-electric, five-passenger car that will start hitting American streets in late 2010 -- you step on the accelerator and the car spools out velocity in one continuous, syrupy stream. It's nothing short of elegant.

Once upon a time -- 10 years ago -- cars had such things as torque curves. Which is to say that, because of the peculiarities (the volumetric efficiency) associated with different internal combustion engine designs, each model of car hit maximum torque at a particular rpm. Cars with big American push-rod V8s under the hood typically had massive torque at lower rpm, and cars with multivalve overhead-cam fours and sixes hit peak torque at higher rpm.

These liabilities have been largely erased in the current generation of cars, thanks to computer-controlled throttles, variable valve timing and duration, forced induction and variable-geometry intake manifolds -- all of which help optimize the flow of gas in and out of an engine and establish a "flat" torque curve. In the case of a BMW twin-turbo 3.0-liter engine, for example, maximum torque comes at 1,400 rpm and doesn't start to go away until 5,000 rpm.

The BMW engine is, in other words, more like an electric motor. In fact, an EV's motor produces maximum torque at 0 rpm and maintains consistent torque across most of its operating speed range. That's what makes EVs such little hot rods -- loads of off-the-line quickness and mid-range punch.

During my all-too-brief drive, the Leaf prototype (clad in Nissan Versa bodywork), with three people on board, shot across the stadium parking lot like it had been pinged with a BB gun. Zero-to-40 mph acceleration, I estimate, is in the mid-5-second range, which would suit a decently sporty little car. Arrayed around the Leaf chassis is 90 kilowatts worth of lithium-ion batteries driving an electric motor good for 106 horsepower and a healthy 207 pound-feet of torque. According to Nissan, the Leaf's top speed is 90 mph and the nominal range is 100 miles.

One last tech-wonk example: Automakers are continuously evolving technology to help cars maintain traction and directional stability. With conventional traction and stability systems, if wheel slip or vehicle yaw is detected, the computers will pulse the appropriate wheel's brake or retard engine timing or both, until the vehicle regains stability. But this is a big, sloppy, coarse means of doing the job. What's needed is a finer-grain method of modulating wheel speed without scrubbing off all the speed and momentum.

Electric motors are instantly and almost infinitely variable, and are vastly more articulate with regard to changes in traction. This is why the Tesla Roadster, which can maintain almost 100% traction at the rear wheels under acceleration, corners harder and faster than the Lotus Elise upon which it is based.

Imagine the potential road-holding power of an all-wheel-drive electric sports car, such as Audi's promised e-Tron. Imagine what you could climb with an electric Jeep.

Here's my point: As repeatedly underlined at the Nissan Leaf's U.S. debut last week, the future of EVs comes down to the question of consumer acceptance. Will consumers buy them? Will they like them? What about battery leasing and recharging infrastructure, and carbon emissions? What about cost? These are reasonable questions.

But I predict consumer acceptance will ultimately be a nonissue. Why? Because the trajectory of vehicle engineering has trained car buyers to expect their next car to be smoother, quieter, quicker, more high-tech, with better cabin isolation and more road-holding, than the one before.

Two decades of computerization of the automobile have created a kind of well-oiled semiautonomous being, half semiconductor, half metal and glass. Many cars today have electric steering, electric brakes, virtual gauges, video camera mirrors, even virtual bumpers. In other words, cars are nearly electrified already.

The next logical -- even inevitable -- step in the evolution of the automobile is when we jettison the big, heavy, hammering, noisy piece of reciprocation under the hood.

The Leaf is definitely Car 2.0. Sweet, glycerin smooth, techy, frisky and even a little bit beautiful. It just feels like tomorrow. Perhaps the question is not "Will people buy them?" but "Can we build enough?"

[Eric]

I attended the Nissan Leaf Tour today in Bellevue, WA, USA. The car is not as tall as I expected and it looks a lot nicer in person than in photos. I only learned a couple of new points.

The NEC/Nissan Alliance group is going to manufacture the battery packs in the US and has already signed an agreement to sell it to Subaru.

The price quoted, both in the Seattle Times and during the Nissan presentation this morning, is closer to $25,000-$35,000 rather than the originally quoted $10,000-$15,000.

Some local coverage:http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010468141_electriccars10m.html


Eric S.

[Toshi]

I saw the Nissan Leaf in the flesh today. Tomorrow marks the last day of the Leaf's USA tour. The car making the rounds is the same one that showed up at the auto shows. Fun facts: price TBD, theoretically shipping by the end of the calendar year (yeah, we've heard that line before), 80 kW motor, 32 kWh Li-Mn battery iirc designed to be used between 90% and 10% depth of discharge, and both fast chargers for 240V-equipped garages and a really high voltage DC charger for institutions.

My shots of it (horribly boring video to come later this weekend):






The cargo area is quite tall! I was impressed.



Both sides of the charging apparatus.



Fancypants dashboard designed for my generation.


Jessica liked it.

[Toshi]

A short video showing the Leaf that I whipped together this morning, all footage shot by yours truly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2xNvC0lcMM

[AndyH]

Here's an old video that shows a bit more of the battery construction and a cut-away of the major systems. Battery closeups at 1:04.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrNmplhx7ag


It looks like as of at least Feb 10 the split car/battery plan is dead.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/nissan-leaf-pricing-clarified-somewhat/
"Nissan today announced a timeline for the rollout of its Leaf electric car, but, perhaps more important, the company confirmed that the car and battery pack will be purchased or leased—just like a normal car—as a single unit. Previously, speculation about how the company might meet its aggressive pricing goals—“a well-equipped C-segment vehicle,” in their words, probably about $25,000—suggested the battery would be leased separately from the car. We now know that will not be the case."

[voicecoils]

Here's an old video that shows a bit more of the battery construction and a cut-away of the major systems. Battery closeups at 1:04.

FYI, the battery pack is from AESC if it hasn't already been mentioned in the thread.

[Miles]

Production in UK, too: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8573724.stm

[liveforphysics]

I've managed to convince my mom to buy one of these Nissan Leaf's the moment they become available for sale. She has been looking for a new commuter car, and only has a 20mile round-trip commute, and doesn't care much about performance, so it seems like a perfect choice for her.


I'm excited to get enough of them on the roads to create a steady supply of wrecked Leafs at the auto-wrecking yards. It will make a cheap supply of many handy EV parts.

[AndyH]

Ok...the real question is...how much LiPo can we get behind the rear seat?

Range is based on the LA4 urban drive cycle which has a small bit of expressway and a bunch of starts/stops. The 100 mile range estimate is without AC or heat. AC may drop range 10-20% and cabin heat will take a bigger bite at about 20%+. It should be a bit easier than an ICE car on at least initial climate control, since it can be pre-heated or -cooled on 'shore power' before driving away with a full pack. One estimate suggested a real-world 80 mile range in hot weather.

[AndyH]

Last day to sign-up on-line for a LEAF reservation -- $99 deposits start Tuesday the 20th by email invitation.

I look forward to reading about real-world experience from those of you in the initial roll-out areas! It's looking like Texas isn't in the early roll-out so I gotta wait.

[jmygann]

The auto maker will begin delivering the car, which is expected to have a 100-mile range, in December. The Leaf will start at $32,780, and buyers will be eligible for a $7,500 federal tax credit for electric vehicles. Nissan has a capacity to build 50,000 Leafs annually for the global market, including the U.S., at its plant in Japan.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/04 ... r-leaf.php

sign up ...

http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric- ... .Link.Leaf.

[AndyH]

All Righty! Nissan redesigned their website and has another round of pre-registration for the 15 May 'general' rollout. The folks that registered prior to the 20th are receiving email from Nissan with a link to register and place a $99 refundable place-holder fee.

LEAF.jpg

(34.07 KiB) Downloaded 279 times

Not all Nissan dealers will be in the LEAF 'system'. Those that are can take place-holder fees from walk-ins starting May 15th.

AeroVironment is making the 240V home charger interfaces.

More EVs on the road is a very, very good thing!

[AndyH]

Could it really be that Nissan has more LiIon experience than any other auto maker?!

The Nissan Altra - a crossover vehicle before there were crossovers - used LiIon to get a 120-140 mile range - 1n 1997!

http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/103 ... powered-ev

http://www.altfuels.org/events/testdriv/altra.html

Could it really be that while the gen-1 EV1 used lead and the RAV4 had NiMh that Nissan fielded a purpose-built EV and filled it with LiIon?

[Miles]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/10120053.stm