Mindset of Mainstream America

[andrey320]

Hearing things about safety makes me realize how lucky I am. My ride to work is 80% on a dedicated bike path (completely separated from cars).

"Cool" and riding a bike (e-bike or not) don't go together to a lot of people. It didn't to me, until I did not want to be cool anymore (after college). Now I feel great to be one out of 7 people in a 1500 who rides their bike to work.

The bikes are changing though, and celebrities are riding them - http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?page=news&newsid=14078

Thats a nice bike! (mine will be nicer )

[Mathurin]

Well, I'll re-hash here: I argue that coolness is something that must be earned one way or another, it's just that some people feel the need to use material possessions to make up for lacks elsewhere in their lives. It's true, isn't it?



Then there's the general perception that bikes are a lower social caste thing, and adding an electric part somehow lowers the coolness factor. The consequence is that only inherently uber-cool, open minded people can feel comfortable riding ebikes.


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Regarding the faster = safer argument that's been brought up: regardless what stats you look at, the hit from behind accident is consistently extremely rare, when it does happen it's usually at night to a cyclist who doesn't have the most basic safety equipment after brakes (lights). Stats show that accidents happen most often at intersections, either in front or from the side. My experience confirms this.

Over the past few years I've had a few close calls, but not one of them involved being hit from behind. Most of them had to do with intersections, in some cases it was because I was riding too close to the curb or on parallel bike paths (cars look for traffic in traffic lanes, not next to them) But, mostly they had to do with cars pulling out in front of me or cutting me off after having under-evaluated my speed, and with a non assisted bike, mind you.

To be fair, I do ride a good bit faster then the vast majority of cyclists I cross and pretty much always race anyone going close to my speed, most of those reply in same. I can imagine cars would expect scooters / motorcycles to be going at same speed as other traffic and treat them accordingly, but mostly they appear to expect bikes to be going at average bike speeds.



Washington State Bicycle Collision Data for 1994 to 1996:
http://www.bicyclesource.com/images/was ... -study.pdf

Ken Kifer's got a good writeup on bike safety, with lots of stats:
(It's also a good cycling resource page, pity he got pwned.)
http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/risks.htm

[Malcolm]

safe wrote:

If the bike can stay up with traffic the car stays behind. That's why I'd argue that to really make the electric motor bike safe and practical it NEEDS to be able to go at the speeds that the roads are posted

mathurin wrote:

Over the past few years I've had a few close calls, but not one of them involved being hit from behind. Most of them had to do with intersections, in some cases it was because I was riding too close to the curb or on parallel bike paths (cars look for traffic in traffic lanes, not next to them) But, mostly they had to do with cars pulling out in front of me or cutting me off after having under-evaluated my speed, and with a non assisted bike, mind you.

I agree with you both, which is why I decided to convert a motorcycle rather than build a fast ebike. Seems to me that to get any respect on the road you need be able to keep up with traffic and have sufficient road presence. You need to look big. An experienced cyclist can overcome this to some extent by riding aggressively and claiming the road. I admire that attitude but I don't want to feel as if I'm heading off to battle every time I nip out for a loaf of bread.

[Ypedal]

Hmm...

I agree with the " Need to keep up with traffic " ebike attitude.

There are a few different ways for me to get to work.

Direct straight line = 6 km, 4 lane ( 2 each way ), posted speed limit 60 km/h, involves a merge-type-traffic-circle.. cars maintain 40 to 50 km/h in this circle... staying on the right side of the lane is a dangerous place as Car drivers are too busy looking for other cars to nice a cyclist on their right side.... THIS is why i have a 2 speed motor ( 406/409 ) at 72v. I flip the switch.. Pin the throttle and tuck while standing on the pedals with finger on the brake levers at the ready... It's a 30 second adventure and adrenalin rush.. Picture 55 km/h leaning hard 10 ft away from the bumper of the car in front.. and a car riding your ass 10 ft behind..

Needless to day.. The Car drivers usually back off and give me room once they realize i'm not pedaling, and i'm not holding them up causing a traffic jam behind me in a 60 zone !!.. i do not take this route unless i'm late for work.

The other route is 8 km ( only 2 km more.. ) and i have a long sloping hill, but in 409 with a 20" wheel i fly right up that sucker at 35 km/h +.

I need to buy an alarm radio without a snooze button..

[Lowell]

How does the 40x motor hold up to 72v sustained? I considered going that route, but ended up with an X5 because I was concerened about overheating a 40x.

[Ypedal]

No problems at all .. i have run it at 99 v a few times.. ( wayyyyyyy too fast for a bicycle !! ) ..

Only way to burn a 4 series motor would be to subject it to 40 + amps at a stall for an extended period.. ( I suspect the controller would pop first ! )

[xyster]

I forgot where I saw it -- perhaps on the PA forum -- but I definitely recall somebody frying the innards of their 40x with 90 volts. If I remember correctly, they also recounted it was working fine at 72 volts.

[Ypedal]

I have seen that thread.. was a link to Power-Assist on yahoo.. quite a few years back.. a guy with an Extracycle setup i beleive.. Not 100 % sure, but i think there was the possibility of the wires being sliced into.....

Other that that one reported case.. i do not know of another such claim. If anyone knows of a motor failure.. please link !

[Lowell]

So what makes the ~10lbs of extre weight on the X5 motor useful? I'd love to have 2000w in a 15lb hub instead of 25lb.

[xyster]

So what makes the ~10lbs of extre weight on the X5 motor useful? I'd love to have 2000w in a 15lb hub instead of 25lb.

1) The x5 is more efficient over a much wider rpm range:
http://www.ebikes.ca/simulator/

2)The x5, according to Justin at ebikes.ca and others on other forums, can handle 5,000 watts continuous and 120 volts. Hard to say since people seem reluctant to fry their hubmotors in the name of science, but it appears from user reports the 40x can handle about 3,500 watts at 100 volts temporarily, and 2,500 watts continuous.

3)Makes the bike hard for thieves to pick up and put in a van

4)Comparing the 5304 to the 408 on the simulator, about 20% more torque for the same power input.

[safe]

...The x5,can handle 5,000 watts continuous and 120 volts.

5000 Watts / 746 Watts (1 hp) = 6.70241 times.

Not quite seven times over the legal national limit...

5000 Watts / (746 Watts (1 hp) * 3 (Missouri allows 3 Hp)) = 2.2341 times.

Only a little over double the Missouri upper limit...

But who would notice?

Bad boy, bad boy whatcha gunna do.... whatcha dunna do when they come for you?

(like I'm the guy to talk about speed limits!)

[xyster]

Safe, I've gauged my power usage carefully, and can honestly tell you my consumption, including time coasting and pedaling, averages well less than 750 watts -- within the legal limit. Honest, Officer Ima I. Pocrite !