THE WORLD BIGGEST HUB MOTOR

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Re: THE WORLD BIGGEST HUB MOTOR

Postby Hillhater » Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:03 pm

Doctorbass wrote:Incredibly... it is THIS mining truck that use the hub motor!!!

Image

Doc


I just noticed that you showed the Cat 797....
Ironically, that is the ONLY mining dump truck that DOES NOT use electricaly transmission or wheel motors !! :shock:
It uses a conventional mechanical transmission set up. !...a computer controlled, seven speed planetary transmission with an integral lock-up torque converter.

The Komatsu 960e would be a typical electric wheel motor driven truck..
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Re: THE WORLD BIGGEST HUB MOTOR

Postby Gordo » Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:07 pm

Doctorbass wrote:Incredibly... it is THIS mining truck that use the hub motor!!!

4 of those are using the power of a 3240hp generator 2.5 MW of ELECTRIC power!!.. making around 800kW each!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Image


Image

Doc


Doc;
You screwed up in the Fronglais. There is no e-moto in the HUB.

Powertrain

The Caterpillar 797 series trucks employ mechanical drive powertrains in contrast to the diesel-electric powertrains of similar haul trucks offered by competitors.[4] During initial development in 1997, a diesel-electric powertrain was considered for the 797, but this powertrain configuration was not developed because Caterpillar considered a mechanical drive powertrain more appropriate for market conditions at that time.[8]

EDIT;
The 797 is a 400 short ton truck, not 100T It is just over 100T EMPTY.
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Re: THE WORLD BIGGEST HUB MOTOR

Postby fechter » Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:05 pm

This one might be in line for the biggest hub motor:
MT6300AC
Payload Capacity 363 t (400 ton)
Gross Weight 598,640 kg (1,320,000 lb)
Engine(s) Detroit Diesel/MTU 20V4000
Arrangement: V-20
Power: 3,750 horsepower (2,800 kW)
Transmission(s) AC Electric

The large fan behind the operator cab is for the braking resistors.
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Re: THE WORLD BIGGEST HUB MOTOR

Postby Doctorbass » Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:38 pm

Gordo, I was wrong.. as sometimes.. I posted too fast without re-reading my post :lol:



Fechter.. You mentionned it's an AC motor!.. Welll I would be curious to see the controller of that hub motor!!!.. and the dozens of IGBTs :shock:

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Re: THE WORLD BIGGEST HUB MOTOR

Postby grindz145 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:07 pm

8)
neptronix wrote:I think one of those would work on a penny farthing. :lol:


Hell yeah! haha
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Re: THE WORLD BIGGEST HUB MOTOR

Postby katou » Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:01 pm

Yes Fechter, 2800 kw, but my question, is that overvolted?

Seriously though, I wonder how they deal with the need for sudden spikes of power? Does the diesel just rev up and that's it?

Seems like you'd end up carrying a lot of unnecessary ICE weight, or have pretty terrible acceleration.

What's the 0-100 time on one of those? (unloaded of course)

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Re: THE WORLD BIGGEST HUB MOTOR

Postby spinningmagnets » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:02 am

Adding conventional 4WD shafts to all the wheels would cause other engineering problems. Trust me, they tried both, and they found some reason they like these (series hybrid?) for the bigger trucks.
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Re: THE WORLD BIGGEST HUB MOTOR

Postby Hillhater » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:19 am

Most of those big load trucks are only 2 wheel drive.
The main advantage of the electric transmission is reduced maintenance ( more operating time = $$$) particularly clutches and brakes , which would not last a day without the Retard braking.
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Re: THE WORLD BIGGEST HUB MOTOR

Postby fechter » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:24 am

Here's the official datasheet for the MT6300AC:
http://www.bucyrus.com/media/59167/mt6300ac.pdf

"Electric Drive System
Alternator Brushless direct drive
Controls Microprocessor-controlled IGBT
Traction motors W63 triple reduction
Gear ratio 32:1 to 42:1
Speed (maximum) 64 km/h (40 mph)
• The MT6300AC features an all-new AC drive system that can significantly
reduce friction brake wear. This new drive system allows the truck
to transition from full propel to full retard in less than a second, and
the dynamic retarding can fully stop the truck.
Dynamic retarding Max power rating 4,474 kW (6000 hp)

The inverter probably looks similar to this:
Image

I bet that 4.5MW braking resistor is pretty big.
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Re: THE WORLD BIGGEST HUB MOTOR

Postby Hillhater » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:22 pm

Siemens make many of the drive systems for these trucks.
a few quotes from their site ...
Note the comments about the "Full electric" , Zero emissions, trolley drive system.

Amusing video also ..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY7lBw28 ... re=related

Electricity, not Diesel. A 3,000 hp diesel engine generates the current. So why doesn’t it just propel the truck too? "The reason is simple. It’s just not worth putting the engine and gears of a car onto the slopes of a mine. A gearbox powerful enough to handle the workload required of these trucks would be enormous, and would also need a lot of maintenance," says Köllner, explaining the drawbacks of purely mechanical propulsion.

Not only do the trucks dispense with gearboxes. Thanks to their electric drive systems, they also do without clutches and brake disks in normal operation. Electrical resistors are used to brake the vehicles, and speed can be stepless­ly adjusted via three-phase current frequency. "Such trucks are essentially driven like a car with an automatic gearbox," says Köllner, who is an engineer and has actually driven one of the behemoths.

For over 30 years now, Siemens has been using three-phase current drives for mining vehicles. "The rotating electric field can be transformed directly into mechanical rotation," says Köllner. Some manufacturers, on the other hand, still prefer DC drive systems. In such motors, however, the current has to be constantly interrupted and re-engaged to generate a rotational movement. This limits the revolutions per minute that a motor of this type can attain. And it requires more parts that need to be maintained regularly. "Our alternating current motors can deliver up to seven percent more performance from the same amount of energy, and downtimes for maintenance and repair work are rare," says Köllner. "Generally, just one technology check a year is all that’s needed."

Giant Trucks, Zero Emissions. AC drives also form the basis for a develop­ment from Siemens that can significantly speed up the transport of mining products: trolley trucks. Such vehicles function like streetcars—sporting antler-like pantographs that can be raised and lowered at the press of a button. This means that the driver can link the truck to overhead conductors (catenaries), which are generally installed on steep slopes. "This is where conventional trucks, despite their 3,000 plus hp, can only advance at a snail’s pace," says Köllner. The catenaries can provide the drive systems with almost 6,000 hp. This means that the truck’s speed can almost double, and the mine operators can reduce the number of expensive mechanical giants they need to have on site.

The environment benefits from trolley technology too. There are no local emissions, since the diesel engine switches itself off automatically when contact is made with the overhead line. What’s more, the braking energy that is released when a truck rolls downhill is fed back into the network via a second pair of conductors. Thanks to all these benefits, the technology quickly pays for itself, says Köllner. "After no more than three years, a mine operator can recover the costs of buying the trolley trucks and the costs associated with the installation of the overhead lines."
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Re: THE WORLD BIGGEST HUB MOTOR

Postby zenon » Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:50 pm

Doctorbass wrote:
Fechter.. You mentionned it's an AC motor!.. Welll I would be curious to see the controller of that hub motor!!!.. and the dozens of IGBTs :shock:

Doc



The IGBT in this power range are huge :shock: , check page 8 of this article where the CEO of Infineon holding one IGBT during a press release ,compare that size to the common 4110 fet's,
http://www.power-mag.com/pdf/issuearchive/40.pdf

I bet multiple water ports heatsinks to cool that monster.

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Re: THE WORLD BIGGEST HUB MOTOR

Postby AussieJester » Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:45 pm

We need to get Rodgah in here, he just got back from the mines he drives these big mofos for a living..

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Re: THE WORLD BIGGEST HUB MOTOR

Postby Lessss » Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:51 pm

Retard braking
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Re: THE WORLD BIGGEST HUB MOTOR

Postby rodgah » Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:35 pm

retarder.jpg
(49.36 KiB) Downloaded 390 times


yep they really do call it that....hahahah makes me laugh. thats in an old 789B which is around 20 years old, done more than 1000 000 Km's and nearly as many hours, swallowed more than 40 000 000 litres of diesel in its time, and still going. 10km/h as you can see up a 10% grade with 180-200t on board(payload) gross weight im sure is over 350t.

793.jpg
(54.06 KiB) Downloaded 390 times


793c, bigger, a bit newer, hell of alot nicer to drive, but still in the scheme of things it is pretty worn out. they have a payload of around 230 but you can overload them to around 250 or so before it will lock out and you are stuck going to the dump in 2nd gear the whole way. they have a gross mass of over 400t


Caterpillar are the only "LARGE" truck maker that still sticks with mechanical drive. They are in a niche that some companies still require, they are small enough (good turning circle) to be able to be used under a normal excavator operation in pit, but are capable of longer runs than the electric drive trucks. I dont know why this is but that is what I have been told. If the turning circle isnt an issue (ie there being loaded by a front end loader) they usually use kress trucks for long runs as they love the long drives and they carry more per load. All of the big cat trucks are 6speed (7th is reverse if you read above information posted) all pull around the same speed up a 10% ramp at their rated payload at around 10-12km/h, on flat ground they all have a top speed of between 55-60km/h (depends whos driving :lol: :P ). there are 4 braking systems on all Cat haul trucks, Park (air operated non cooled friction brakes), Emergency (modulatable version of the park brake), Service (a foot operated torque converter in each wheel brake), Retarder(same as what the service brakes use but on the steering column). There is a torque converter in each wheel, which is used for braking and the big throw on the retarder makes it highly modulate-able lol.

The electric trucks are apparently cheaper to maintain, and use less fuel for the same power. They are harder to drive from an operator perspective, mainly because of a delay in everything but steering. The brake systems arent as controlable as a cat as there is only a foot operated brake, which is tricky to use when your sitting on a floating air seat and your going over rough ground. And in wet weather they are hard to keep straight, partially because of the delay in power/brake systems, but also because they do not allow riding the brake while powering on(to keep wheels moving slowly while braking....).

yes you did read that correct, wet weather and haul trucks dont mix, even though they have an enourmous foot print on the road, when it rains, its like a tokyo drift session just trying to drive them back to a park up area.

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Re: THE WORLD BIGGEST HUB MOTOR

Postby TylerDurden » Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:01 pm

You da man, Rodgah.

Proving...

E.S. IS THE EV FORUM TO BEAT ALL EV FORUMS. :twisted:
Have a Nice Day,

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Re: THE WORLD BIGGEST HUB MOTOR

Postby beast775 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:10 am

i know what my new ebrake lever will say now :) .thats to cool to get the inside story on the monster,thanks mate.
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Re: THE WORLD BIGGEST HUB MOTOR

Postby nvbowhuntr » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:13 am

actually the truck shown in the picture isn't even an e-vehicle if you research your information the caterpillar 797 mining truck is a mechancial driven haulage truck. if your looking for an actual large electrically powered haul truck to use for an example look no farther than the worlds largest ac drive haul truck the liebherr t 282c haul truck which has 8 igbt's for the propulsion sytem and 4 for the brake chopper and also is capable of hauling over 500 short tons of material. also caterpillar does now offer an ac drive haul truck which is only 360 short tons capacity which is called the 795 ac truck
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Re: THE WORLD BIGGEST HUB MOTOR

Postby whatever » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:44 am

he does have a big one
igbt bigun.jpg
igbt bigun.jpg (35 KiB) Viewed 1168 times
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Re: THE WORLD BIGGEST HUB MOTOR

Postby salty9 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:47 am

I wonder why they don't use use ultracaps and tv monitors on these things?
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Re: THE WORLD BIGGEST HUB MOTOR

Postby dingoEsride » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:15 am

nvbowhuntr wrote:actually the truck shown in the picture isn't even an e-vehicle if you research your information the caterpillar 797 mining truck is a mechancial driven haulage truck. if your looking for an actual large electrically powered haul truck to use for an example look no farther than the worlds largest ac drive haul truck the liebherr t 282c haul truck which has 8 igbt's for the propulsion sytem and 4 for the brake chopper and also is capable of hauling over 500 short tons of material. also caterpillar does now offer an ac drive haul truck which is only 360 short tons capacity which is called the 795 ac truck


Well spotted, but if you check the previous page or here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=23487&start=15 someone else had already picked up on that
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Re: THE WORLD BIGGEST HUB MOTOR

Postby megacycle » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:22 am

I could'nt help smiling at the driver dumping iron ore from a 250 tonner in Pilbara N West Aus, good looking blonde.
Some blokes don't always have the touch to drive a multi mill unit around.
They go like stink and the whine of the drives is awesome until the exhaust spews out.
Do'nt recommend going near them when they are dumping a load of iron ore, Pilbara fog they called it, black crusty boggies for a week, fond memories on shutdown not, $$$$$$ Yes.
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