eCars - Compared!

[TylerDurden]

anyone else notice the similarities between the Focus front end and an Aston Martin ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_Automotive_Group

[DrkAngel]

Great resource page for comparison of all available EVs.
Multiple points of view helps give a more "complete picture".

http://www.allcarselectric.com/

[DrkAngel]

First the bad news - Many experts project gasoline prices to reach $4.50/gal by mid-Summer.
The good news - electric prices projected to remain stable. (USA)

[Hillhater]

- electric prices projected to remain stable..

not for everyone ! ..
Electric retail prices in Australia are pretty much certain to double in the next year or two

[DrkAngel]

First the bad news - Many experts project gasoline prices to reach $4.50/gal by mid-Summer.
Up from $3/gal in December, for a 50% increase in 7 months.
The good news - electric prices projected to remain stable. (USA)

So ... Electric Vehicles, charged at "off peak" rates, previously rated at, 300 eMPG will be attaining 450 eMPG.
450 miles on electric, that costs the same as 1 gallon of gasoline!

equivalent, or, evaluative, or, electric - MPG = 450!

eMPG = electric to gas equivalent, fuel cost, based on 30mpg gas vehicle vs Electric Vehicle.

[Arlo1]

Good thread

[Arlo1]

First the bad news - Many experts project gasoline prices to reach $4.50/gal by mid-Summer.
The good news - electric prices projected to remain stable. (USA)

Not for us here In British Columbia Canada. B.C. Hydro anounced a couple weeks ago they are raising their rates 50% in the next 5 years.
I am not to afraid because I can make my own electricity but it stil will suck for almost everyone else.

[DrkAngel]

First the bad news - Many experts project gasoline prices to reach $4.50/gal by mid-Summer.
The good news - electric prices projected to remain stable. (USA)

Not for us here In British Columbia Canada. B.C. Hydro anounced a couple weeks ago they are raising their rates 50% in the next 5 years.
I am not to afraid because I can make my own electricity but it stil will suck for almost everyone else.

That's odd!

I point out that gas prices are projected to increase 50% in the 6 next months ...

And you whine about electric increasing 50% in the next 5 years ... ?

[Arlo1]

First the bad news - Many experts project gasoline prices to reach $4.50/gal by mid-Summer.
The good news - electric prices projected to remain stable. (USA)

Not for us here In British Columbia Canada. B.C. Hydro anounced a couple weeks ago they are raising their rates 50% in the next 5 years.
I am not to afraid because I can make my own electricity but it stil will suck for almost everyone else.

That's odd!

I point out that gas prices are projected to increase 50% in the 6 next months ...

And you whine about electric increasing 50% in the next 5 years ... ?

You also pointed out electric prices to remane stable. Lol

[theRealFury]

First the bad news - Many experts project gasoline prices to reach $4.50/gal by mid-Summer.
The good news - electric prices projected to remain stable. (USA)

I feel sorry for myself and every other person from the UK. TODAY the prices i would have to pay at todays currency conversion rates are as below.

1 gallon of Gas - $9.32
1 kwh electricicty - $0.27

Im beginning to wish i lived in America. Luckily for me i dont drive a car... my olny mode of transport is an Ebike and the only fuel i use in my home is Electricity (and i have my own small solar installation which reduces that somewhat) so im relatively unscathed by this... 99% of the UK population dont get off as luckily as me.

[dnmun]

fury, how much do you pay for natural gas? also i wanna add to your distress. i saved 10 gallons of gas from before christmas that i got for $2.84/g in some gas jugs, bot on credit card because it is cheaper to pay the credit cost than the increase in the price of gas. currently 3.15 here. (ouchee!)

do you guys have to heat water and cook or heat the house with electricity or gas? BOL, dm

[theRealFury]

fury, how much do you pay for natural gas? also i wanna add to your distress. i saved 10 gallons of gas from before christmas that i got for $2.84/g in some gas jugs, bot on credit card because it is cheaper to pay the credit cost than the increase in the price of gas. currently 3.15 here. (ouchee!)

do you guys have to heat water and cook or heat the house with electricity or gas? BOL, dm

Hey Dnmun,

I don't use Naturan Gas in my current home but i just checked local tariffs for British Gas and the current rate is $0.13 per KWH of natural gas. I do everything wth Electricity in my home, heating and cooking are no exception.

I dont blame you for buying the gas in jugs if its cheaper, even at the prices your paying over the water for gas its still alot of money. Over in England i cant help but feel that if Electric cars were is the same price bracket as ICE cars, masses of people would switch over and SAVE alot of money. I really like the progress that has been made in the last 2-3 years with electric cars but it just get under my skin how they think that they can charge $38,000 for an electric version of a car that costs $15,000 for the ICE equivelant.

When a decently priced eCar (that has the build quality of a standard ICE car) comes along then ill buy one, until then ill stick with my ebike lol.

[Arlo1]

E-bikes will always be the answer. It saves so much energy which saves you money now and saves everyone money because the total grid demand is lower there for the price stays lower.

[DrkAngel]

E-bikes will always be the answer. It saves so much energy which saves you money now and saves everyone money because the total grid demand is lower there for the price stays lower.

Well ... my eBike, (brush, geared, non-hub motor), only gets about 4000 eMPG. But I plan on an AmpedBikes brushless, hub motor build, should be ready by Spring. I estimate 6000 eMPG, 9000 eMPG if gas price increases, as anticipated.

[DrkAngel]

Cars.com
Test results for available electric cars.
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/green-cars/

[jonescg]

Electric retail prices in Australia are pretty much certain to double in the next year or two

And largely because no-one has been investing in the poles and wires for the last 25 years. Each day a new suburb is hooked up and the ageing infrastructure is struggling to take the extra load. They can try to blame rooftop solar as much as they like but it has little to do with it. All the more reason to go off-grid if you can help it! NiFe batteries for the win!

[DrkAngel]

Well at least there are a few electric vehicles on the road now, and from the sales of them looks like they will become a very popular choice for everyone. Hopefully they can ramp up the production of these pure electric vehicles as id love to stop riding my electric bicycle everywhere and find a more viable alternative. And as production continues, and popularity continues the price will become great.

I've been re-building, modifying, upgrading ebikes, for 3 years now.
Next step will probably be an electric motorcycle conversion.
ETEK made a nice motor, and I have sources for plenty of cheap Li-ion, maybe Lipo, too.
Will do an eCar conversion, just haven't found affordable components ... yet!
Looking for - permanent magnet motor (30-40hp) w/controller and - aerodynamic sub-compact w/manual steering and brakes.

[Nehmo]

The major range limiting factor, with electric cars, is the cost of the batteries. You could double the range, for the weight of 2 passengers! (And $10,000).

Things will get better!
Reasonably informed sources predict a 10% price decrease, per year, for Lithium based batteries, combined with a 70% increase in capacity, over the next 10 years, based on currently available technology.

Mass production will drive the price down. (I predict!)

I'm sure it will. But range and battery capacity would be irrelevant if the EVs were supplied while in motion. There are some inductive power transfer systems that have the sender cables embedded in the pavement. Apparently, a frequency of 20 kcps is efficient.

`~- Nehmo

[DrkAngel]

Which Hybrids Improve Gas Mileage The Most? Lexus, Lincoln Win

Cadillac Ciel Concept: GM's Next Hybrid?]

cadillac.JPG (46.05 KiB) Viewed 1986 times

[DrkAngel]

2012 Mitsubishi i Ranked By EPA As Most Efficient Electric Car On Sale

2012-mitsubishi-i_100365798_m.jpg (85.91 KiB) Viewed 1584 times

[jmygann]

513 MPGe

http://www.evalbum.com/2311

[DrkAngel]

513 MPGe

http://www.evalbum.com/2311

How was MPGe figured?
"50 miles per $1 worth of energy" ... electricity?

"66 Wh/Mile" = 15.15 m/kWh
"20 mile range" @ 15.15 m/kWh = 1.35kWh battery
That would be 13-14lb of LiPo battery
Your SLA batteries weigh "280lb" ... ???

Something sounds wrong ... ?

72V x 84Ah ("6 SRM-24 batteries") = 6048W = 6kWh
6kWh / 20 miles = 300 Wh/mile = 3.33m/kWh

?

[oatnet]

Most eCar batteries are designed to last 100,000+ miles, some are guaranteed for 90,000 miles.

Frankly I'll believe this when I see it. One thing that all electric cars have suffered from, and still do, is poor battery life, either cyclic, or more importantly, calendar.

There are 10+ year old RAV 4 EVs out with more than 100,000+ miles on the Odometer, demonstrating good cycle and calendar life.

-JD

[DrkAngel]

There are horror stories about the cost of fueling electric cars and the "necessary" Grid upgrades.
Please use this, user friendly, bit of calculating, to clarify, just how little, eCar electricity should affect the Grid.

Let us try a little, simple math, might be a bit easier to understand.

Electric cars.
The Nisson Leaf and the 2012 Ford Focus are both rated at 100 mile range, with 24kWh and 23kWh batteries, respectively, and could be considered representative, based on quantity produced and manufacturers reputations. ecars compared

USA electric cost averages 11.53 cents per kWh.
Electric cost, by State

The math:
5,000 annual miles:
Divided by 100 miles per charge
Equals 50 charges of
24kWh
Equals 1200 kWh
Multiplied by $.1153
Equals
$138.36 annual car "fuel" cost
$2.66 per week, added to your electric bill!

1200kWh /24hours =50 days
You could run your electric car for a full year, (5000 miles), using the same amount of electricity as the small 1000kWh air conditioner uses, running ... less than, 1 day per week!!!
or ...
You could run 7 eCars, each, 5000 miles annually, for the cost-electricity used by a 1 little 1000 watt air conditioner!

10,000 annual miles:
Divided by 100 miles
Equals 100 charges of
24kWh
Equals 2400 kWh
Multiplied by $.1153
Equals
$276.72 annual car "fuel" cost
$23.06 monthly, added to your electric bill!
$5.32 per week.

A bit cheaper than $1,500 annual gasoline cost.
$125 monthly, dumped into your gas tank. ... if you average 25mpg ...

(Gas car ~25mpg)
( gasoline ~$3.75\gallon - when I passed the gas station tonight, well $3.759\gal. regular unleaded)
(10,000 miles/25mpg=400 gallons)
(400 gallons of gas x $3.75=$1500)

Don't despair, if you don't use an air conditioner, you probably use a small 1000 watt heater. Electrical usage compares, exactly the same.

Even better?
The entire electric grid has reduced demand from about 1am till 6am. (varies)
They are forced to idle power generation plants burning fuel and maintaining workforce with no product sale.
In many areas, they offer greatly reduced pricing during these hours, some, 50%, or less!
Charging during these "off hours" might allow you to cut "fuel" cost, another 50%.
With no, none, zilch, 0%, increased drain on the grid!

[TylerDurden]

FYI:
Retail price of electricity is not cost to consumer. Fees and taxes can double the cost.