Lit motors C1... gyro, enclosed, electric 2 wheeler

[chrispw]

In Jr College I built this:
I call it the MotoLuge.
.......
It's VERY tricky to ride a 2 wheeled vehicle with a steering wheel.
The reason:

When the landing gear is down, the vehicle steers normally.
As soon as the landing gear goes up,
you have to "counter-steer" just like on a motorcycle.
You might not notice it on a motorcycle, but when you turn right, you are actually turning the handle-bars left.
Anyone that doesn't believe me should try riding the MotoLuge. haha. Turn the wheel right, and you go left.

The MotoLuge is sitting in my dad's garage. I ant to get it out into an open parking lot one last time before cutting it up.
It was a great learning experience, but 2-wheeled vehicles w/ steering wheels are not meant for the road.

Lets just say I learned why 2 wheeled vehicles shouldn't have steering wheels.

* * *

I'm sure the C1 is steer-by-wire (not mechanical steering)...so a computer just uses steering wheel input to determine how to actuate the gyros and turn the wheels.

[chrispw]

Interesting point. With gyro stabilisation though, I would expect it to behave more like a 3 or 4 wheeled vehicle....

If this vehicle is expected to lean in turns (like it shows in the videos computer animation) then "counter-steering" seems necessary and I don't think using a steering wheel would be desirable. If the vehicles gyroscope is constantly running and this thing is meant to take turns without leaning, then I agree with the use of a steering wheel. I am having a hard time understanding how a gyroscope could be constantly running and still allow a vehicle to lean. *perhaps the gyroscope itself "leans" relative to the vehicle in turns? ) I would have guessed the gyroscope to be for low-speeds only, in order to eliminate the need for "landing gear", but in the above video they show the gyroscope used in a simulated car-crash to keep the vehicle upright. So unless that gyroscope kicks on in a millisecond, I'd say the designer is having it run all the time, In which case I'm still confused as to how it leans in turns.

* * *

The gyros are on computer-controled actuators...so they provide active stabilization, and can cause the C-1 to lean into a turn.

[chrispw]

If the lean is induced by reaction to a force applied to the gyros, there is no need for counter-steer?

But then how do you tell the gyros how much you want to lean?

Another issue: what if you want to change the rate of turning half way through the turn?
-you would need to: Lean more (counter-steer *again) then follow-turn sharper.
All while half-way through a turn.

It's a big balancing act that goes un-noticed to most riders. I just don't think a machine could replicate it very well.
Perhaps, the computer could sense a sharper turn of the steering wheel, calculate the rate of the turn, counter-steer the vehicle accordingly, then follow-steer at the rate the steering wheel is turning.... seems like it might work so far.
But now lets continue: (and here is where I think the main problem lies)
To get OUT of the turn: your front tire would actually have to point sharper into the turn (what we have been calling follow-turning). By turning INTO the turn sharper than what your lean-angle allows, the vehicle will right itself. So this means, the computer would now have to physically turn the front tire more INTO the trun as you turn the steering wheel OUT of the turn. WEIRD!. I suppose you could rely on the gyros to "right" the vehicle after a turn. In which case the gyros would have to kick on (variably) as you steer the vehicle away from the turn, but then the gyros would have to counter-act what your front tire would be doing (which is actually "counter-steering" steeper INTO the turn).
Seems like a cluster-f*** of problems.
I still don't think it would work. The thing just needs some handle-bars.

* * *
The miracles of computers. Onboard computers decide how to actuate the gyros and turn the wheels in order to have the vehicle respond to steering input. In order to know "which way is up", the computer probably uses something like the artificial horizon in an airplane, so the computer "knows" the vehicle's vertical orientation.

[Miles]

The gyros are on computer-controled actuators...so they provide active stabilization, and can cause the C-1 to lean into a turn.

Right. The idea is to apply a torque to the gyro mechanism, causing the vehicle to lean enough to balance the forces. This is important because the gyro can only provide torque for a limited period (until the mech. has rotated circa 45 deg. and it hits the stops).

[Ykick]

Hey, they actually gotta working (sorta) prototype on camera. Watch it in the background and you see the gyros working to hold it up. Also interesting they mentioned regenerative gyro forces? Hmm?

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/05/lit-motors-c1/

These guys deserve big props making this work IMO...

[Hillhater]

I hope their understanding of dynamic stability is better than their knowledge of simple power usage ?
They seem to think its only going to need 4kW to cruise at 110mph !

.....the production version will be all-wheel-drive (two-wheel, if you prefer), with power provided by a hub-mounted electric motor good for 110 horsepower. Weighing in at between 800 and 900 pounds in production spec, Lit estimates a zero-to-60-mph time of around six seconds, with a 120-mph top speed and a range of 220 miles between charges thanks to the 8 kWh lithium-ion battery pack mounted in the floor.

And , what with the head sticking up out of the roof ?

[spinningmagnets]

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/05/lit-motors-c1/

[TylerDurden]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31949

[spinningmagnets]

I gotta start using Google on ES, the ES search let me down again!

[TylerDurden]

I just typed in "lit motors" and scrolled down.

No worries, tho.

[sk8norcal]

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/l ... 7294.story


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[flathill]

The proto looks awesome
Made in SF too
They r using Brennan's Monorail tech out of Ireland
Inertial forces causes it to lean into corners thats the trick (leans into distrurbance)
They have already tested on ice
Did you catch the enertrac dual stack hub motor?
The final version will have dual hubs good for 100+hp

[Miles]

They r using Brennan's Monorail tech out of Ireland

Well, he was born there, that's all. His family moved to Australia when he was nine. The technology was developed in England - funded by the War Office....

[mistercrash]

200 mile range, 0 to 60 in 6 seconds, 100 mph top speed, around $12 000 may be available for 2014. I want one. Scroll down to see a movie of the presentation.

http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/10/lit-motors-will-shake-up-the-electric-vehicle-market-with-its-two-wheeled-untippable-c-1/