Aptera is gone for good. :'(

[Arlo1]

starts at 4:15

These guys need to be educated....
Man there is a lot of retards who just don't get it.

[mistercrash]

It's the first time I ever heard of these two. They look to be pretty knowledgeable about cars and the auto industry. I agree they don't seem to be very EV savvy, they are more into the political aspect of the EV ''revolution''. I don't think they are totally off with what they said might happen politically in the near future regarding EVs. It would be devastating if they are right. But then again, they don't seem like fans of electric. Then they go about how the LA auto show is lacking concept cars How many concept cars do you expect to see based on fossil fuels. In my mind, concept cars are electric, solar powered, muscle powered or whatever but definitely don't come with a fossil fuel engine.

[Arlo1]

The thing is what they say about the whole EV thing crumbling, They dont realy know most EVs on the road right now are home build. And the GM fire thing lol they never mentioned the EV1 with how many fires? Its companies like Zero bike and Tesla who will make it happen!

[mistercrash]

They dont realy know most EVs on the road right now are home build

Yes but what happens if some stupid politicians makes new rules preventing any EVs on the road, by convincing the sheeps of this world that EVs are unsafe with examples of EV fires dating back to the GM EV1s. That is what I'm talking about when I say those guys might have a point. I would be shocked and angry if it happened. But I don't know if I would be surprised. Governments could regulate the crap out of EVs making it too damn difficult for a manufacturer to produce them and make it down right illegal to ride a home built one. It was said before, first they laugh at us, then ignore us, and finally they will fight us. There are signs of big fights coming in some places with governments trying to make it more difficult to travel with EVs. An example here is myself and quite a few people in my town running E-scooters, E-bikes and a few small gas engine bikes. Right now, it's pretty darn great. Low speed but we still get where we have to go in a timely manner, with no need for a license, registrations or insurance. It's green, it's cheap and it's fun! It's paradise right now and we all have a big grins on our faces. But there is talk from some politicians that EV riders should have a license, have registrations and pay for insurance. Lemme tell ya! If that should happen, how much do you think a government will charge you for registering an EV when they know they won't get any tax money from you from burning gasoline? It took 100 years to make people sooo addicted to their fossil fuel vehicles, I don't know if I will see a dramatic change in our life time. As long as there's fossil fuel to be found, not much will change. But some of us won't loose hope, I know I won't. I am setting a good example for my 7 year old son right now. He says that when he grows up, he wants a Mustang..... But it has to be electric Change will come, but we won't see it. Until it happens, EVs are for a niche market, just like those guys said. Fine! I'd rather be part of the geeky tree hugers than one of the sheeps.

[sk8norcal]

john mcelroy's profile,
http://www.autoline.tv/whatisad/

http://www.autoline.tv/journal/?p=19160
this is the previous episode, more about volt, fiskar, fuel cell, etc...

[Arlo1]

Yes but what happens if some stupid politicians makes new rules preventing any EVs on the road, by convincing the sheeps of this world that EVs are unsafe with examples of EV fires dating back to the GM EV1s. That is what I'm talking about when I say those guys might have a point. I would be shocked and angry if it happened. But I don't know if I would be surprised. Governments could regulate the crap out of EVs making it too damn difficult for a manufacturer to produce them and make it down right illegal to ride a home built one. It was said before, first they laugh at us, then ignore us, and finally they will fight us. There are signs of big fights coming in some places with governments trying to make it more difficult to travel with EVs. An example here is myself and quite a few people in my town running E-scooters, E-bikes and a few small gas engine bikes. Right now, it's pretty darn great. Low speed but we still get where we have to go in a timely manner, with no need for a license, registrations or insurance. It's green, it's cheap and it's fun! It's paradise right now and we all have a big grins on our faces. But there is talk from some politicians that EV riders should have a license, have registrations and pay for insurance. Lemme tell ya! If that should happen, how much do you think a government will charge you for registering an EV when they know they won't get any tax money from you from burning gasoline? It took 100 years to make people sooo addicted to their fossil fuel vehicles, I don't know if I will see a dramatic change in our life time. As long as there's fossil fuel to be found, not much will change. But some of us won't loose hope, I know I won't. I am setting a good example for my 7 year old son right now. He says that when he grows up, he wants a Mustang..... But it has to be electric Change will come, but we won't see it. Until it happens, EVs are for a niche market, just like those guys said. Fine! I'd rather be part of the geeky tree hugers than one of the sheeps.

Change will happen and I think I will see it. We just need to educate people. And we need to stick together. Remember northamerica might have a strong hold but the rest of the world thinks in a different way. And as for the rest well They have to catch me and I will fight to the death! It will be a big mess I promise!

[sk8norcal]

First he accused GM of “Kill(ing) the Electric Car.” Then he took “Revenge” and got buddy-buddy with the giant company that created the Chevrolet Volt. But Chris Paine, director of the new documentary, “Revenge of the Electric Car,” hasn’t faced off against our resident EV skeptics. This week John McElroy and Peter De Lorenzo will attempt to navigate the EV hype and get down to the heart of the matter: are electric cars really here to stay?

starts at 22min,

[jmygann]

http://www.apteraforum.com/showthread.php?t=4884

http://www.byplug.com/

[Harold in CR]

That Aptera forum thread is a real eye opener. Seems Team B stole millions of $$$ from anywhere they could. Then, spent lots of $$$ on New facilities, expensive office chairs, and other frills.

Would love to see their feet held to the fire in a Court of Law. Probably be defended by BIG 3


Did read though, the original Aptera design was never a part of the NEW Aptera Company. It was never patented or copyrighted. Anyone can copy that design.

[bigmoose]

For you guys in the area: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/assets-of-concept-electric-vehicle-manufacturer-aptera-motors-to-be-auctioned-on-december-20-21-2011-2011-12-08

Assets of Concept Electric Vehicle Manufacturer Aptera Motors to Be Auctioned on December 20-21, 2011

As part of the company's liquidation, the auction will be staged from 7 am on Tuesday, December 20, 2011 through 10 am on Wednesday, December 21, 2011 PST

An on-site, open to the public preview will be held on Monday, December 19 from 9 am -- 4 pm PT at the Aptera Motors headquarters located at 2765 Loker Avenue West, Carlsbad, California.

The Aptera auction will provide buyers an opportunity to purchase all manufacturing equipment, including an Instron 5982 tensile tester, elegant office furnishings, computers, and automotive repair, material handling and facility equipment.

"The majority of Aptera's equipment available for auction was purchased in 2010 and is nearly new," said Kirk Dove, Managing Partner of Heritage Global Partners.

[jmygann]

nothing about any bodies/vehicles ... will try to get Chipman to go

[bigmoose]

nothing about any bodies/vehicles ... will try to get Chipman to go

Bodies and vehicles are in an auction after the first of the year. They say the bodies are bundled with the IP (patents) ... that will make it pricey. May be by another auction house, not sure about who is representing the bodies and IP.

[Hillhater]

...Bodies and vehicles are in an auction after the first of the year. They say the bodies are bundled with the IP (patents) ....

But Harold in CR mentioned ..

...the original Aptera design was never a part of the NEW Aptera Company. It was never patented or copyrighted. Anyone can copy that design.

Was there much difference in the designs ?

[Arlo1]

Guys working with composites is quite easy! I build some cool carbon fiber things. And a couple fiberglass things. What we need to find is the plastic nurses and doctors use to make casts and splints with. We can then use mild heat and shape it to a body style we like then take a mold off of that!!!

[bigmoose]

To hillhater, I think both statements are correct. Sort of the "old aptera" and the "new aptera". The "new aptera" run by the GM castoff redesigned about everything, including the composite composition. I believe the original used balsa wood on end for the center core; of course GM was going to redesign that out of the composite, for example.

Also it was posted that the two "old aptera" founders who were fired by the "new aptera" are trying to get an investment group together to buy the "new aptera" IP and car hardware at auction and make it the "new new aptera" and get back to it's roots. The founders are posting on the aptera message board that was previously linked by jmygann. They seem like good guys.

[jmygann]

Aptera Will Auction Off Assets This Month


http://www.autoobserver.com/2011/12/apt ... month.html

[Harold in CR]

Been reading some more on the Aptera Forum. According to one of the original partners, all that body work being crushed was the ORIGINAL prototypes. They were completely stripped from all parts and safety roll bars, then crushed, and adding comments like, " Glad I wasn't riding in that unsafe bodywork. There was NO frame or anything in there.

This is stuff that was NOT patented or copyrighted. That GM Exec, was a real asshole. He even had a woman as CFO, that was in deep shit with the SEC, and, between the 2 of them, they helped Bankrupt DELPHI. That was a major contributor to supply GM with OEM parts.

They were hired by another outfit, that the original partners hired to help them get to market.

This whole thing smells like a cesspool.

I believe the original guys might be looking to restart the Aptera, under another spinoff name, Aptera 2E. That would be an all electric vehicle. The original was never intended to be a car. It was a gosiline powered motorcycle, then, went to a Hybrid, then, the asshole took over.

[jmygann]

http://evworld.com/currents.cfm?jid=221

[lester12483]

I wanted one of those aptera cars. They should have been on display at auto shows across the world. Then Aptera should have kept their costs low to stay afloat. $150 million is a ton of cash to blow through.

Im very dissapointed they went under. Lessons learned!

[bigmoose]

I $150 million is a ton of cash to blow through.

Not by GM (Government/General Motor's) standards, where a fully burdened engineer would cost $300 to $350 K/year! Now add in a handfull of croney "directors" getting $5 Mil/year and look at the outcome:

$150M - 6 execs@$5Mea = $120Mil = 342 engineering years... WOW that IS a lot, even at GM rates to blow through! Yikes! Where did it all go? ... ah forgot the private plane and the hunting lodge... and the drinks at the "marketing gatherings..." Oh and of course the entourage that likely did multiple China trips to "coordinate technology transfer..." Then there are the boxes of cookies for the staff at Christmas time... Oh, that's right, they declared bankruptcy before Christmas...

[CrazyAl]

We should have a look at history to see what happens when a "new" industry forms (although Electric cars have been around for over 100 years).

Look at the dot com era. There were a lot of businesses that formed and many of them went bust and the internet industry shrunk before gaining momentum again that today it is bigger than the dot com era.

A similar thing is happening with the electric car industry although I do also believe that there are some out there who do not want to see the Electric Vehicle Industry succeed.

I also believe the other problem is that a number of the established auto makers have spent too much Research and Development (R&D) dollars on Internal Combustion Engines and getting them to be more fuel efficient that they want to seen a Return On Investment (ROI) on those R&D dollars.
When some of them do release an Electric Car, it seems to have a limited range and it is noticeable more expensive than the Internal Combustion Engine equivalent model. I get the feeling many established auto makers feel they are in a situation where they don't want to take a leap of faith and rather stick to what they are comfortable with or if they do release an Electric Car, they want to make a massive profit. This risk adverse thinking may work out for them, but if there is a sudden oil shortage, then this thinking could back fire.
I can't really speak for the established car makers, but that is my guess of what could be going on in their minds. There could be more. I wouldn't know.

With these factors in mind, I believe the Electric Vehicle Industry being propelled by EV enthusiasts and people who MUST have one, which will in my opinion keep the Electric Car Conversion and Electric Vehicle Conversion industries (suppliers, consultants, engineers etc) occupied for a few years to come.

[John in CR]

They crushed the body shells they had??? Regardless of the stage of completion that's absolutely disgusting.

[Harold in CR]

No, they completely disassembled the PREVIOUS cars that the original partners had built, then, crushed THOSE bodies. ALL the original Apteras were NOT connected to the "NEW" company. That's why they were crushed. The "NEW" management never completed their first car.

Go to the Aptera Forum and read all this, posted by the original partner.

[jmygann]

Well ... . a lot was learned ... like with the EV-1

[j3tch1u]

quite a shame. i loved that car. it was ahead of its time. i smell something fishy behind the scenes. hope a phoenix may rise from the ashes.