## Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

cbr shadow wrote:So do you have another car that you "could" drive if you need to? I assume your \$0.50 / mile calculation factors in the cost of insurance, car payment, etc and you're not paying 50 cents/mile in gas, right? So whether you drive or not you're still paying those fixed costs. How much of that is gas? I assume this brings your 4000 miles way up. Same goes for any parts/tires/maintenance on the bike in those 4000+ miles.
It sounds like you've put a lot of thought into this though so I'm interested.

Great points. We own two cars. You are correct that insurance is a fixed cost. The actual annual costs were roughly: maintenance/depreciation: \$1,100; insurance: \$400; fuel: \$1,542, registration: \$65.00. I would dearly love to get rid of one car, but because of my work, I couldn't do so easily. Most of the cost on this vehicle is mileage based so I am willing to pay the opportunity cost of having it and not driving it much. Also, I have a kid who is coming up on driving age. I am trying to pre-sell her on the idea of ebikes but so far, she takes after her mom on that score. She will probably need use of a car occasionally when the other is out. Perhaps adding an ebike to the mix it will keep us from doing the American thing and buying a car for her. That is no small thing. Many of our friends have already bought or are planning to buy cars for their kids and they aren't even driving age yet.

Over the life of the car, we have put an average of right at 12,000 miles/yr on it. So my cost per mile, subject to the above, is around 26 cents. If I paid to have the car worked on, it would be higher. The costs above assume the vehicle is completely depreciated (and believe me, it is. It is 16 years old and was only \$18k new) and actual maintenance costs, averaged over the life of the vehicle.

This started as a personal experiment. Certainly the most interesting thing I have found is that for me (an approximately average person, car-wise), I have to be pretty dedicated to e-biking to make it break even. There are little ways that e-biking can cost you more money also. For example, there is a gourmet market right on the bike trail while the regular one is an extra 15 minutes. If I just need a couple of items on the way home, I'll go to the nearest store, which costs more. Also, I might get a smaller package of paper towels because I have to carry them on the bike. That is usually at a higher per unit cost. You need rain pants and a rain shell that you might not have otherwise or you will not ride if it looks like it will rain. That drives your cost savings per mile down.
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Jamis Commuter 1.0/Xtracycle Stokemonkey 36V LiFePO4, 15 ahr
Giant Boulder 9C 8x8, 48v, 10 Ahr LiMn from ebikes.ca

pdf
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

In case you wanted a comparison, I made this spreadsheet the other day:

If you bought an ebike to pay for itself, then you better ride it for a while, or build a very lightweight setup. My Trek will pay for itself in about 1200 miles vs pickup truck driving.

My lightweight ebike is about half the cost of my fast ebike.
My fast ebike is about half the cost of my street motorcycle to drive.
My Street motorcycle is about half the cost of my truck to drive.

And all of this is not taking insurance into account. If you take your car off the road in the summer as I do (and you should), you basically pay for it in a single summer regardless.

grindz145
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

I save almost 10 grand a year because 14 months ago i got popped with DUI and dangerous-no one hurt and no damage.

insurance is a rip off....along with the gas prices!

don't miss driving the jag at all.

looking into making my sail have an auxiliary electric too.

its a great new life ,living electric.
motorino magnet
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

One of the things that make costs vary. Till it's motor died for good recently, I still had a one ton pickup. It's never ever been less than a buck a mile to drive. Gas is a big deal for it, but even so repairs and parts were even more. \$250 for one tire, that sort of thing.
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dogman
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

My initial costs to get into this hobby were pretty hefty so I don't want to do a cost analysis (it might bring me down on this beautiful spring day in Houston). It really doesn't matter because I'm addicted now, and costs don't matter to an addict.
Project bike-Genesis v2100, Crystalyte HS 3540 with 72v40A controller and four 5s8Ah zippy lipos in series.

boppinbob
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

Real close to paying their way, but for sure it's going to more than pay off in next year or two if these bikes hold together and I expect no problems. I had, gave it to my brother, an old 92 Accord 25 mpg and 6K miles a year or so till the e-bikes came in then mileage went to 1200 miles driven in 2010-2011 to zero in 2011-2012 last year as I gave the car away. I averaged better than 3K on the bike the first year or so and likely more this year. I have \$4K into the two bikes\$2.5k into the car plus \$800 or so for gas before the e-bike. another \$300 for tires and maintenance, \$360 for insurance which I still pay so isn't counted. So as you can see I am still behind but not by much. But the truth is I just spent another 2k on the e-bike addiction so another 1.5 years will be needed on the bikes to break even with what I used to spend on the car. Still it will happen and had I not the serious upgrade addiction my first bike would have paid for itself three times over. Then again I expect to have my MG on the road again this summer so everything is fluid as to the bike VS car thing once again. Not hard to figure out which is less expensive in the long run though, even with the addiction I will break even soon.

car gas two years \$1600
Car maintenance \$300

Ebike one \$1600
Ebike two \$2700
ebike extra batts tires ect \$600
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biohazardman
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

Still amazed that some of you drive 11mpg cars, I have a 2,000cc Diesel estate that does nearly 60mpg and pulls like a train...well not mine but the other half's.

Spacey
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

To me it's not about trying to equalize only my gas cost, but to reduce mileage, oil changes, tire changes, brakes, UV damage, road debris chips, and just general wear and tear all over my truck. Lower miles keeps the car/truck worth much more when it's time to sell, which no one mentioned. No matter how one travels, it's going to cost \$\$, but I am more interested in preserving my truck, and reducing my carbon footprint, when possible. Obviously I'm not going to take ebike to pick up a load of landscaping rocks for the house, just as I'm not going to take the truck to a nearby job where only my mind is required. It's all relative.
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shock
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

My gas savings on my ICE assisted bike have not outweighed the cost of the kit. However, the little ICE requires more maintenance due to vibration and other things. I do however, take great satisfaction in knowing that I can commute to work without getting in my car (weather permitting).
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wheelbender6
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

I bought my scooter originally to save money.

I often commute to my workshop with nothing in my van.

It usually costs me £0.6 a mile to run the van including wear and tear. I have now done about 6000 miles on the scooter which I would have done in my van. so that's £3600 saved.

The scooter cost around £600 and I have spent around £900 on lifepo4 upgrade. add another £300 for insurance ,elcectricity and tires, so thats £1800 total

So I could say I am £1800 better off

I do ride in all weather, and I get a bit more weather protection than on a standard ebike.
72V Crooza scooter, converted to lifepo4 24AH 24S2P Headway, Lyen 18FET controller, 47mph
72V E-max 110S converted to lifepo4 A123 100AH 24S5P, Greentime 36FET controller, 45mph

flexy
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

Spacey wrote:Still amazed that some of you drive 11mpg cars, I have a 2,000cc Diesel estate that does nearly 60mpg and pulls like a train...well not mine but the other half's.

What is a Diesel estate?
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Jamis Commuter 1.0/Xtracycle Stokemonkey 36V LiFePO4, 15 ahr
Giant Boulder 9C 8x8, 48v, 10 Ahr LiMn from ebikes.ca

pdf
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

What is a Diesel estate?

72V Crooza scooter, converted to lifepo4 24AH 24S2P Headway, Lyen 18FET controller, 47mph
72V E-max 110S converted to lifepo4 A123 100AH 24S5P, Greentime 36FET controller, 45mph

flexy
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

pdf wrote:
Spacey wrote:Still amazed that some of you drive 11mpg cars, I have a 2,000cc Diesel estate that does nearly 60mpg and pulls like a train...well not mine but the other half's.

What is a Diesel estate?

I think he means diesel "wagon".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Station_wagon
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cal3thousand
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

My costs:

Bike \$160
Kit \$240
Batteries + charger \$250
Tires + tubes \$50

total cost in the past two years \$700

Miles ridden = 7000
Cost to drive that in gas on my Ford Ranger =\$850 dollars in gas only.. not counting wear and tear

I get \$60 a quarter so \$240 dollars a year for commuting by bike to my work so that's an added bonus for me that is probably not available to everyone.

So without my bonus i've saved AT LEAST \$150 and that number continues to go up.

With my bonus I've saved \$530 dollars!
neoplasticity
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

neoplasticity wrote:Miles ridden = 7000
Cost to drive that in gas on my Ford Ranger =\$850 dollars in gas only.. not counting wear and tear

\$850 / 7,000miles = 12.1 cents/mile
Assume \$4.00/gallon (California)
400 / 12.1 = 33 miles/gallon for a Ford Ranger?
SamTexas
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

Give yourself a reasonable wage and you've probably spent a lot more than you think you did, especially if you hung out here on ES for a while, reading up.

I'm not worried about saving money - I figure it's cheap entertainment that happens to be kinda healthy.
REdiculous
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

This is true, but I don't regret a minute, and posting it all saves others time when trying to accomplish the same result.
72V Crooza scooter, converted to lifepo4 24AH 24S2P Headway, Lyen 18FET controller, 47mph
72V E-max 110S converted to lifepo4 A123 100AH 24S5P, Greentime 36FET controller, 45mph

flexy
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

I'm only counting the R&D, not the time spent going into detail so people can follow your build(s). If you were reading ES for 3 months before you started buying parts, I think that time counts as an expense, to some degree.

It's just one of those things to consider, I think....it's a personal thing though, so it's gonna vary a lot...

If I count *everything* and give myself \$25/hr, I've spent at least \$3500 on ebiking. If I ignore my time, and only look at the parts on the bike..\$500.

I think my point is that we shouldn't be so worried about the dollar amount that we've spent or saved - if your time is worth anything, you've probably spent a lot more than you think. Besides, it's a health thing....how do you put a dollar amount on "I probably avoided a heart-attack"?
REdiculous
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

And after x replies, what's the simple answer to the question

Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

YES

or

NO
+1

Can we make a poll for this?

Quajochem
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

Quajochem wrote:And after x replies, what's the simple answer to the question

Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

No.

I'm a recreational rider, so I've spent more on gas than I would've had I just sat on my ass at home. My kid likes to ride the trails in town and the safety of a dedicated path is worth it to me - it's easy to justify the \$6 it takes to get there and back, and the \$500 I've got in my ebike is nothing.
REdiculous
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

NO
Ham549
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

The girlfriend ,,, "Are you on that stupid bicycle site again." (She doesn't really mean it )

In relation to the upper comments about time spent learning this hobby, and keeping on top of the new revelations,
I was curious if there were such a clock that keeps track of all time use on this site per member.

It would be a great response to say "Yes dear I'm on the bicycle site again, but I've only spent 7.2 (This part really fast)x 10^2 hours this year looking at the site"

I've spent

\$1450 for kit and batteries

I have around 85km racked up.
I think I have a little way to go yet, luckily the weather is getting nice.
04 Norco Atomik - Cycle Analyst - Hs3540 - 40amp Infineon Controller - 12s2p 5.8 Ah Turnigy Lipo
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captain387
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

If you go to the User Control Panel and look at the Overview tab, under Your Activity it shows how many posts per day you have. I'm at 1.29 and I've sorta been trying to bring that down closer to 1....it's not working.
REdiculous
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

I've got 12,000 miles to put on my electric motorbike before it breaks even with gas for my car. It broke even on fun factor on the first ride though!
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http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=35341

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E-racer
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### Re: Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

I look at it this way.

The investment is done and over. That is money that I don't care much about anymore. It's what is going to come out of my pocket at the moment that concerns me. The thinking here is to reduce my living expenses. If things get bad in the future, how much is it going to cost me to survive. Right now I have everything paid for and all my yearly expenses are like \$6,000.00. I could probably reduce it another grand if I took my cars off the road.

I made the investment in my E-bike and now I just try to use it instead of car. This allows me to go at least a month without buying gas.

Basically what I'm doing is, using today's wealth to secure tomorrows survival. You can be flush with money today, so why not invest it in things that reduce your overall expenses. That way you have more freedom, less stress, more time to yourself...
deronmoped
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