Emco, another European company building electric motorcycles

[ProDigit]

With 5 or 6 models, they're not a small company!

Where are the americans? 2 years behind!

http://www.emco-elektroroller.de/de-nl/ ... novum.html

[gestalt]

I think it's unfair to motorcycles to refer to emco's products as motorcycles

Unless I'm missing something because of the language all I saw was a three slightly different scooters. Albeit some of them kinda cool looking.

[ProDigit]

I'm sorry, I don't know under what category they would fall, in Europe they are seen as scooters, in USA scooters are defined as 2 wheeled devices without seat.
Some of these 'bikes' can go upto 50mph, I'd consider that a motorcycle. The others 25 to 45kmh, is like 17 to 25mph or something like that....

[Lebowski]

what do you mean, Americans are 2 years behind ? I would rather call it ahead

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/

They could use a proper controller though

[999zip999]

Lebowski what about Zero's there batteries ?

[Drunkskunk]

I'm sorry, I don't know under what category they would fall, in Europe they are seen as scooters, in USA scooters are defined as 2 wheeled devices without seat.
....

In The U.S, thats a scooter. Not a bad scooter either, but a Scooter.Some of our scooters have 700cc motors and can push up near 160kph.

A motorcycle looks more like this. Note the diffrence in curves

[ProDigit]

what do you mean, Americans are 2 years behind ? I would rather call it ahead

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/

They could use a proper controller though

Just to be clear,
The company sells bikes that go 25km/hr, basically those that need no drivers license/insurance, but have more than twice the range.

the motor they're using is more expensive, a 96V engine, but it's much more efficient according to the website, as well as according to the specs.

So far most e-bikes in USA are utilizing the 48V engines for their entry bikes, though I don't know much about the more expensive ones sold in USA.

There are some good bikes out there, but I can't seem to understand why some bikes are sold for $900, and one step up, with LiPo4 battery is $1900, and one step up from that, with more than 20MPH is $4k...
The price difference seems somewhat out of proportion to me. Like couldn't any brand out there create a $900 bike, with plugin battery compartments for extra battery connections, with a 700W engine (good enough to go 20mph with limiter, 30mph without limiter)....
That'd be awesome!
I'm not into driving 50MPH with budget motorcycles, but I would appreciate it to go a tad faster than the ridiculously slow sub 20mph!

Note the diffrence in curves
[/quote]

Not sure which curves you're writing about

[crossbreak]

ok, this is austrian but it's still far ahead, if you don't look to close on curves

[Toshi]

With 5 or 6 models, they're not a small company!

Where are the americans? 2 years behind!

http://www.emco-elektroroller.de/de-nl/ ... novum.html

I'll be damned if all of those models aren't Chinese catalog items as found on alibaba.com. "Company" my ass--they're just another importer of crap.

[crossbreak]

I'll be damned if all of those models aren't Chinese catalog items as found on alibaba.com. "Company" my ass--they're just another importer of crap.

it is, thats why we all laugh about it while watching the video

[Alastor]

even my electric bicycle scooter 250 Watt has a climbing capability of 20 % and there biggest model has 15 % !!!!!

[ProDigit]

ok, this is austrian but it's still far ahead, if you don't look to close on curves

Seems like my daily routine of going to work,

With 5 or 6 models, they're not a small company!

Where are the americans? 2 years behind!

http://www.emco-elektroroller.de/de-nl/ ... novum.html

I'll be damned if all of those models aren't Chinese catalog items as found on alibaba.com. "Company" my ass--they're just another importer of crap.

It's very unusual for Holland or Germany to get their stuff made in China.
If they do, they have it from a closed circuit, nothing you can find on Alibaba.
You can also look at the price, comes with disc brakes, abs I presume, motorcycle wheels, not those thin bike wheels you see Xtreme putting in their budget series, and to me it looks like they've worked the body around the batteries, not dumped a battery pack in an empty cavity in the floorboard (like with Chinese).
It's definitely not Chinese designed, if that's what you're asking.

But then again, I'm not so familiar with the $3500+ bikes.

[Toshi]

I'll be damned if all of those models aren't Chinese catalog items as found on alibaba.com. "Company" my ass--they're just another importer of crap.

It's very unusual for Holland or Germany to get their stuff made in China.
If they do, they have it from a closed circuit, nothing you can find on Alibaba.
You can also look at the price, comes with disc brakes, abs I presume, motorcycle wheels, not those thin bike wheels you see Xtreme putting in their budget series, and to me it looks like they've worked the body around the batteries, not dumped a battery pack in an empty cavity in the floorboard (like with Chinese).
It's definitely not Chinese designed, if that's what you're asking.

But then again, I'm not so familiar with the $3500+ bikes.

Why not contact them and ask them if their scooters are sourced from China? I couldn't find a dead ringer in a cursory 5 minute search on alibaba but I'm convinced it's from there one way or another.

I did find what's either a clone or the actual OEM model of a Vectrix during my search, though:

Alibaba.com: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/42365 ... ooter.html

Vectrix.com, model on left: http://www.vectrix.com/

[liveforphysics]

the motor they're using is more expensive, a 96V engine, but it's much more efficient according to the website, as well as according to the specs.

So far most e-bikes in USA are utilizing the 48V engines for their entry bikes, though I don't know much about the more expensive ones sold in USA.

You know the voltage makes no difference in performance or efficiency or heating or anything like that right? You could have a drive train running 24v absolutely dominate in every way a drivetrain running 150v.

[ProDigit]

perhaps the voltage does differ somewhat. Higher voltages means less heat resistance, granted that heat is probably only a fraction of the byproduct of a motor.
Perhaps they have more optimizations, like more or longer coils, I don't know exactly what they did to their motors.

[Miles]

You know the voltage makes no difference in performance or efficiency or heating or anything like that right? You could have a drive train running 24v absolutely dominate in every way a drivetrain running 150v.

perhaps the voltage does differ somewhat. Higher voltages means less heat resistance, granted that heat is probably only a fraction of the byproduct of a motor.

Did you read what Luke wrote?

I'm sick of this BS marketing about a 48V motor being better than a 36V one etc.

[ProDigit]

You know the voltage makes no difference in performance or efficiency or heating or anything like that right? You could have a drive train running 24v absolutely dominate in every way a drivetrain running 150v.

perhaps the voltage does differ somewhat. Higher voltages means less heat resistance, granted that heat is probably only a fraction of the byproduct of a motor.

Did you read what Luke wrote?

I'm sick of this BS marketing about a 48V motor being better than a 36V one etc.

Though I perceive your comment as somewhat insulting, I'll still refrain and try to explain in a humane way:

I understand you think that way because of marketing crap you see all the time.
But without the tech science to back you up, there's nothing you can really say against those claims, especially not call them BS, even if they are not 100% true.

in essence, a motor magnet consists of coils, which each consist of large copper wires. Increasing a voltage over a copper wire leads to the wire being able to handle a higher power flow (that's why there are high voltage lines)
On electric powerlines, they could easily have just put 110V and 60.000A on those lines; it would be easier and save them millions of dollars on transformers.
Unfortunately the electric losses are higher than with a 60.000V, and 110A; even if the power rating would be the same.
Has to do with the fluctuation of AC.

Either way, this is only one of the reasons why THEY ARE CORRECT, and you're not, as you have nothing to show to counterbalance this fact.

If you ask me, personally, I'd say switching to a 96V from 48V would only amount to less than 5% improvement, since I don't know what kind of other improvements have been made. Still, even if it was only 1%, it is a more efficient engine, no denying that!

[Miles]

I suggest you learn the most basic motor theory before you start pontificating on here... A motor is not a simple resistive load.

[ProDigit]

Another thing, higher voltages result in lower amps flowing through the coils, which means they can reduce the copper wire's size.
they'll maintain nearly the same electromagnetic field (resulting in the same torq), while developing a smaller, and lighter motor.

If the coils where on the rotating axis like with a brushed motor, they could either save on material that hold the coils into place, making the axis lighter, or allow the motor higher RPM's, as the lighter the motor gets, while maintaining the same strength mechanically, means less internal forces, and higher rpm's could become possible.

If you ask me, all motors and bikes should be 110V/220V; and plug em in directly to the wall AC for charging!

[ProDigit]

I suggest you learn the most basic motor theory before you start pontificating on here... A motor is not a simple resistive load.

No one said it was, and your tone can calm down a bit ok?

I've graduated from electro mechanics in school, which gives me enough background knowledge to judge the basics of these topics.

Stop treating like you're high and mightly and belittling everyone who does not agree with you!

[amberwolf]

Another thing, higher voltages result in lower amps flowing through the coils, which means they can reduce the copper wire's size.
they'll maintain nearly the same electromagnetic field (resulting in the same torq), while developing a smaller, and lighter motor.

No, becuase to get the same power output at the same speeds, they still need the same total copper in there.

It would need a different drivetrain, gearing the motor down from a high speed, to reduce the motor size and still get the same power and speed out of it at the wheel.

[flathill]

What happens when you have zero resistance superconductors?
P=v^2/r
power goes to infinity as r goes to zero?
No
voltage doesnt exist only flow
We measure abstract pressure
It is all about apparent resistance

Very Low voltage and high current doesnt work well with silicon due to poor current sharing
Otherwise we would have mainstream homopolar motors
You can use magnetic amplifiers though
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_amplifier

[Miles]

I've graduated from electro mechanics in school, which gives me enough background knowledge to judge the basics of these topics.

Apparently not.

[ProDigit]

Another thing, higher voltages result in lower amps flowing through the coils, which means they can reduce the copper wire's size.
they'll maintain nearly the same electromagnetic field (resulting in the same torq), while developing a smaller, and lighter motor.

No, becuase to get the same power output at the same speeds, they still need the same total copper in there.

It would need a different drivetrain, gearing the motor down from a high speed, to reduce the motor size and still get the same power and speed out of it at the wheel.

With the same copper in a motor, and the same resistance (R), but a higher voltage, you can allow a greater powerflow through the coils, which in turn causes a higher magnetic field.
That will result in more torq, or greater rotational speeds.

that is, if you specifically want to keep the same copper.

Reducing the diameter of the copper wire, will result in a smaller magnetic field, and a higher R. Which can be compensated by higher voltages, to keep the same magnetic field.

[ProDigit]

What happens when you have zero resistance superconductors?
P=v^2/r
power goes to infinity as r goes to zero?
No
voltage doesnt exist only flow
We measure abstract pressure
It is all about apparent resistance

Very Low voltage and high current doesnt work well with silicon due to poor current sharing
Otherwise we would have mainstream homopolar motors
You can use magnetic amplifiers though
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_amplifier

You can do anything with mathematical formula's.
I can remove U, I or R out of the equation, that does not mean they are indispensable.
Your formula is incorrect though.
The correct formula for motors is P=U*I*cosY, or U*U/R*cosY, as the coils process a sort of AC fluctuation, not DC.
The coils may have a zero resistance (R)(which is theoretically possible, but practically impossible, as you'd have to cool certain materials at very cold temperatures in the likes of a few degrees K); but even if it where possible, there's still the magnetic resistance of coils, worked in the cosY factor. (cos phii, I can not type this greek symbol on my keyboard).
Either way, you'll never get zero resistance on a motor, unless both I and U is either 0, or infinite.