TaiLG Electric Bicycle Scooter 48 Volt 12 Ah 250 Watt

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Re: TaiLG Electric Bicycle Scooter 48 Volt 12 Ah 250 Watt

Postby Alastor » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:33 pm

Hello again :) i know i probably tiered you with all my noob questions and all ...so before i start asking again i wanted to thank you for all the help me so far :)

Well i have two 36volt10ah lipos with bms sitting at my place (one of the packs has 30 charges like new ) and i was thinking of combining the newer one with the 2 x RC 6s1p 5ah packs i was talking you about if its possible.
I was thinking connecting the two RC lipos in 6s2p configuration and then connect em in series with the 36 volt lifepo4 pack.Taking the + wire of the 36v and connecting it to the - wire of the RC pack.The other - wire from the 36v pack and the + from the RC 22.2 pack will be my main leads.Do i need to do something special with the BMS?I will disconnect the packs in order to charge them.If its possible to wire em up safely it will make a 36+22= 58 volts normal pack and 66 full charged one.I will probably need a new controller to endure the 66 volts ? my own can handle 63v maximum or 14s configuration.Or the controller might withstand the 66 volts if i cool him more efficiently ?

Do i also have to check the 36v packs C rates or something ? do they have to be close to same C discharge rates i mean.Will i need a diode?

thanks again
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Re: TaiLG Electric Bicycle Scooter 48 Volt 12 Ah 250 Watt

Postby ProDigit » Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:16 pm

Hi,

For series connection, you don't need a BMS; although it's better to always have a BMS installed in the battery, for charging purposes.
Just make sure your expansion battery (the one you're going to put in series with the main battery, is not too large (anywhere from 6-9V makes sense; installing a 12V battery might destroy your controller; but overvolting in general will reduce the lifetime of the controller too).
Also make sure the extension battery has at least the same amount of amps (or more) than the stock battery; preferably of equal value. Less amps means the series battery will run empty sooner than the stock battery, meaning it'll leave your bike without power once the BMS shuts off that battery.

Also your motor will receive less power if you connect a weak battery with a strong battery in series.

If I where you, I'd create an electronic circuit, using circuit breakers. They can be gotten as cheap as $5 per breaker. Preferably 20, or 30Amps breakers.
Make sure the circuit breakers work,and are in the 'off' position.
Attach 2 circuit breakers together (mechanically, it is possible to use silicone glue), and install them in your storage compartment, or below it (mount it or use silicone glue).
Go from the stock battery '+' to circuit breaker 1; split the wire on the circuit breaker input, and extend it to the extension battery's '-'.
From that same circuit breaker 1, it's output, go to your controller. (basically you just inserted one circuit breaker between the stock config, see picture for details).
Image
Then from the output of the extension battery '+', go to circuit breaker 2.
Short circuit the outputs of circuit breaker 1 and 2.

!11!1Doing this configuration, you must remember, to NEVER turn on circuit breaker 1 + 2 at the same time!!!!!!

You want boosted speed?
Turn off circuit breaker 1, and turn on circuit breaker 2!

You want stock speed?
Turn off circuit breaker 2, and turn on circuit breaker 1!

again, you MUST turn off circuit breakers before changing mode!!! When circuit breaker 1 and 2 are on at the same time, you will short circuit the extension battery. If you're lucky though, the second circuit breaker will pop, but don't rely on that!

Concerning your controller, that will depend. a 3V increase is not worth going through the effort; 6V increase might result in 2-4MPH increase. 9V might get you more than 5mph increase, and is worth it. You could always run on the main battery, and when it's getting more empty, and your speed goes less, kick in the secondary battery. That way the controller never really will be overvolted.


IMHO the above is really the cheapest and easiest mod. No need for diodes. The breaker circuit is also good to isolate the battery when charging, so you can charge both batteries separate at the same time (meaning you can use 2 chargers simultaneously), without having to pull them out of the bike.
You could use diodes, but high voltage diodes that don't waste too much battery are hard to find; and still they would use about as much power as having your headlights on.
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Re: TaiLG Electric Bicycle Scooter 48 Volt 12 Ah 250 Watt

Postby ProDigit » Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:18 pm

Hi,

For series connection, you don't need a BMS; although it's better to always have a BMS installed in the battery, for charging purposes.
Just make sure your expansion battery (the one you're going to put in series with the main battery, is not too large (anywhere from 6-9V makes sense; installing a 12V battery might destroy your controller; but overvolting in general will reduce the lifetime of the controller too).
Also make sure the extension battery has at least the same amount of amps (or more) than the stock battery; preferably of equal value. Less amps means the series battery will run empty sooner than the stock battery, meaning it'll leave your bike without power once the BMS shuts off that battery.

Also your motor will receive less power if you connect a weak battery with a strong battery in series.

If I where you, I'd create an electronic circuit, using circuit breakers. They can be gotten as cheap as $5 per breaker. Preferably 20, or 30Amps breakers.
Make sure the circuit breakers work,and are in the 'off' position.
Attach 2 circuit breakers together (mechanically, it is possible to use silicone glue), and install them in your storage compartment, or below it (mount it or use silicone glue).
Go from the stock battery '+' to circuit breaker 1; split the wire on the circuit breaker input, and extend it to the extension battery's '-'.
From that same circuit breaker 1, it's output, go to your controller. (basically you just inserted one circuit breaker between the stock config, see picture for details; just think of the 12v battery as your 36V main battery, and the 9V as your extension battery, regardless of the voltage; the configuration is the same).
Image
Then from the output of the extension battery '+', go to circuit breaker 2.
Short circuit the outputs of circuit breaker 1 and 2.

!11!1Doing this configuration, you must remember, to NEVER turn on circuit breaker 1 + 2 at the same time!!!!!!

You want boosted speed?
Turn off circuit breaker 1, and turn on circuit breaker 2!

You want stock speed?
Turn off circuit breaker 2, and turn on circuit breaker 1!

again, you MUST turn off circuit breakers before changing mode!!! When circuit breaker 1 and 2 are on at the same time, you will short circuit the extension battery. If you're lucky though, the second circuit breaker will pop, but don't rely on that!

Concerning your controller, that will depend. a 3V increase is not worth going through the effort; 6V increase might result in 2-4MPH increase. 9V might get you more than 5mph increase, and is worth it. You could always run on the main battery, and when it's getting more empty, and your speed goes less, kick in the secondary battery. That way the controller never really will be overvolted.


IMHO the above is really the cheapest and easiest mod. No need for diodes. The breaker circuit is also good to isolate the battery when charging, so you can charge both batteries separate at the same time (meaning you can use 2 chargers simultaneously), without having to pull them out of the bike.
You could use diodes, but high voltage diodes that don't waste too much battery are hard to find; and still they would use about as much power as having your headlights on.
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Re: TaiLG Electric Bicycle Scooter 48 Volt 12 Ah 250 Watt

Postby Alastor » Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:17 am

Thanks for the reply :) based on your post i made another custom wire because i was having a 12v12ah battery here in my small solar setup and i made the series connection ok 67 volts with 5 batteries.
I will try and use this to see if my controller will get damaged and if this is successful i will do the same with the 36+22 volt one i told you above witch will give a 66 volt in full charge.

Is there anything i can check on my controller to see if it can withstand that high voltage to be on the safe side ?

So if i am right i don't even care about the BMS i will just connect the new batteries with the old one at the same principle.
You mentioned something about the the extension battery has to be close to the main so i guess the 36v and 22v batteries are quite close to attempt the series connection right ?I will not blow anything on the bms or something ?

I double ask because in the case of the SLAs there is no bms and therefore no problem :)
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Re: TaiLG Electric Bicycle Scooter 48 Volt 12 Ah 250 Watt

Postby dnmun » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:46 am

he doesn't know the answer to those questions. if you run 67V on a controller with 63V input caps, it won't last long. this thread has just turned into misinformation.
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Re: TaiLG Electric Bicycle Scooter 48 Volt 12 Ah 250 Watt

Postby Alastor » Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:50 pm

dnmun wrote:he doesn't know the answer to those questions. if you run 67V on a controller with 63V input caps, it won't last long. this thread has just turned into misinformation.


Sorry about turning it to misinformation but i really want to know this staff i am reading and experimenting every day but i just don't want to burn my scooters controller or myself in the process that's why the so many questions.

In the case of SLA's everything is easy to do.FREAKING BMS ....For example the output of the BMS is the same as a the cells one by one ?and by that i want to know if i can still connect in series more cells any number without a bms.
For example 10s2p battery with BMS in series with a 6s2p rc lipo (all lipos have the same capacity) do i need something special to make the connection ?or i proceed like the SLA's.

Also i realize that i need a controller as well because i don't want to burn my own even if its in warranty

If the solution is to get another 6s smaller bms and connect it in series with the 10s one please let me know :)
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Re: TaiLG Electric Bicycle Scooter 48 Volt 12 Ah 250 Watt

Postby Alastor » Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:52 pm

I just want to combine my hardware in the best way to save money and learn in the process since i have a lot of time.

Sorry if i ask so many questions :)
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Re: TaiLG Electric Bicycle Scooter 48 Volt 12 Ah 250 Watt

Postby ProDigit » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:49 pm

Alastor wrote:
dnmun wrote:he doesn't know the answer to those questions. if you run 67V on a controller with 63V input caps, it won't last long. this thread has just turned into misinformation.


Sorry about turning it to misinformation but i really want to know this staff i am reading and experimenting every day but i just don't want to burn my scooters controller or myself in the process that's why the so many questions.

In the case of SLA's everything is easy to do.FREAKING BMS ....For example the output of the BMS is the same as a the cells one by one ?and by that i want to know if i can still connect in series more cells any number without a bms.
For example 10s2p battery with BMS in series with a 6s2p rc lipo (all lipos have the same capacity) do i need something special to make the connection ?or i proceed like the SLA's.

Also i realize that i need a controller as well because i don't want to burn my own even if its in warranty

If the solution is to get another 6s smaller bms and connect it in series with the 10s one please let me know :)

Just ignore him. there are those that only can say negative things without saying anything useful.
Regardless, I would not automatically assume that your controller is made for 60V.
Overvolting is possible, reduces lifetime, but overvolting by over 50% is a risky thing to do!
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Re: TaiLG Electric Bicycle Scooter 48 Volt 12 Ah 250 Watt

Postby Alastor » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:03 pm

Guess what today i got the package with the lipos and they send me a 3 cell 5000mah turnigy for free.Unfortunately the turnigy they send me its 35-45c so i cant connect her in series as well :( .

I took an old power supply enclosure and i made a metal battery enclosure for the two RC lipos for my sake.I tested the pack and it only got 8 degrees more while i was doing heavy duty climb at full speed.the batteries didn't even get close to warm up in touch.

Here is a picture of the pack with the cell meters attached and cables for the controller with a 30A car fuse.
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Re: TaiLG Electric Bicycle Scooter 48 Volt 12 Ah 250 Watt

Postby Azelixi » Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:11 am

Hi guys complete noob on e-scooters...I've had the bike for a couple of days and now it's completely dead. I hope it's just that it's out of battery? but there is no response on anything, no beeping, etc.

The green switch is off when i tried to move it to on, there is spark.

When I plug the battery charger, there is a blinking red light, is it charging? How long should I leave it charging for? it's been maybe an 30 minutes charging and when i turn it "on" nothing.

Can someone explain to me the ARS system?

Any help is much appreciated.
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Re: TaiLG Electric Bicycle Scooter 48 Volt 12 Ah 250 Watt

Postby ProDigit » Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:34 pm

Is it a LiPo charger, or Lead-acid?

Usually lipo chargers turn red (constant) while charging, and green when turned on.
Blinking red may indicate a faulty battery, or dead due to low volt treshold
LiPo's you can never run empty! If they have a BMS, the BMS will shut down the battery.
Most LiPo's need 4 hours of charging the least, and upto 7 hours when being completely depleted.
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Re: TaiLG Electric Bicycle Scooter 48 Volt 12 Ah 250 Watt

Postby Alastor » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:36 pm

Hey all ,

It's been a long time since i posted anything new for my little toy here so i decided to let you know of its progress.Remember the heat sink on the controller and computer fun ? they are no more since the bicycle is not having trouble with overheating even on summer days.I only kept the thermometer to monitor my lipo pack just in case.

I finished my 12s3p lipo configuration.You where right from the beginning about telling me to use 4 bricks at least.So 50V15Ah pack with six 6s1p 20c 5ah Zippy lipo.I made a new heavy duty harness wire with 10AWG wires bullets for parallel and andersons in series.Working great i just need more time to test out its range.Today i installed the new arrival a watt's up meter and i will begin okaying with it tomorrow :)

Finally i rewired the main leads from 14AWG cheep Chinese no name wire!!!! To 12AWG good quality silicon wire.So the pack is wired 10AWG and from the watts up to the controller 12AWG.

Now i am waiting the new Lyen controller to test the motor of this thing and i will let you all know or you will hear me crying about burning it.Got RPM meter and probe thermometer as well.

And that's all for today.I am planning to strip it of the plastics and take pictures of it but now i am so tiered.
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Re: TaiLG Electric Bicycle Scooter 48 Volt 12 Ah 250 Watt

Postby Alastor » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:45 am

The 50v15ah is something else :) I did 15 kilometers and i only consumed 3,6 Ah out of 12 total available.I guess this makes it 45 kilometers of ride till i hit 44 volt.

The maximum wattage i saw in a big 20% grade was 900 watt with me pedaling and my gird as a second person :P
The nice thing is that the motor is not getting hot even at 900 watt so i guess i can push the system to 1200 - 1400 watt with no issue.
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Re: TaiLG Electric Bicycle Scooter 48 Volt 12 Ah 250 Watt

Postby Alastor » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:28 pm

Mates the scooter is still alive and kicking.Yesterday i made an upgrade to its controller.Here is a time lapse video that i made.I hope you like it.

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