Honda electric car gets 118 mpg, but costs add up

[neptronix]

Hey fucktards,

keep your politcal rants in the cesspool.

....and you keep that kinda language in the cesspool

[wineboyrider]

Hey fucktards,

keep your politcal rants in the cesspool.

....and you keep that kinda language in the cesspool

Yep. Nep.
+1

[neptronix]

I haven't made a serious study of it, but the arguments bandied about are believable. It's a reasonably-sized, reasonably heavy car with a bunch of extra electronics and a load of nickel. It's got to be more polluting/energy intensive to produce than your average car. It's also not that good on fuel when compared to some purely ICE cars.

To me it always seemed like a half-baked EV. I understand the restrictions on large-format nimh cells put a huge limitation on any/most EV's.

You need to study it a bit more. The battery in the Prius is only about 90 pounds. The Lead Acid battery in an ordinary car is going to be in the 50-70lb range.

In ordinary driving, the prius emits about 1/5th of what the hummer would, and uses less than half the gasoline. Over the lifetime of the vehicle, do you really think that producing a recycleable 90 pound battery is gonna produce so much emissions that it makes the hummer greener?

Please don't let me down. I want to believe i'm in a community full of intelligent people. Do some research and see if you still believe that FUD put out there by the oil industry

[texaspyro]

I will buy LED bulbs now, knowing they will be surpassed in lumens/$ next year; but if nobody buys them now, manufacturers have less incentive to push the tech. At least I won't have to buy bulbs again, in this life.

Been there, done that. http://budgetlightforum.com/node/9179


The Prius (and pretty much all hybrids) is a scam. Toyota sells a non-hybrid version outside the US that gets better mileage than the Prius.

[Hillhater]

Toyota sells a non-hybrid version outside the US that gets better mileage than the Prius.

??? I thought the Prius is a unique model..please link to the non hybrid version.
..unless you are referring to a plug in ev rather than an ICE ??

There are many cars that get better mileage than the Prius..in certain conditions,..but few that can match it in urban use.

[fizzit]

The Prius (and pretty much all hybrids) is a scam. Toyota sells a non-hybrid version outside the US that gets better mileage than the Prius.

The prius is a car that is more expensive than your average car but that is better on the environment and will save you money in the long run on gas... how is that a scam? You can read the price... you can read the gas mileage... you can read about the emissions... they aren't trying to lie to you.

[Hillhater]

. The battery in the Prius is only about 90 pounds. The Lead Acid battery in an ordinary car is going to be in the 50-70lb range.

..in the interests af accuracy..
Few regular 12 car batteries weigh more than 30lbs...certainly not in the small/ compact car division.
..and i suspect that 90lbs for the Prius is only the cell weight without all the packaging.
Early Prius packs were much heavier also.

[neptronix]

Equivalent fuel economy... in European gallons or American gallons?

Let me guess, you're referring to something smaller than a Yaris ( or similar in size ) with a dinky 1.0-1.2 liter engine that runs less like a wild stallion and more like an asthmatic miniature horse?

Hey, we also got the Geo Metro for a moment.. that car was received much like a wet turd in a blanket... why? .. dinky.. low power.. rattly..

What's special about the prius is that it has the power.. maybe a tiny bit more.. than any ordinary ecobox, but has a nice interior, good interior volume, and fantastic fuel economy without a compromise anywhere other than price.

Go drive one, you'll get it.

[neptronix]

. The battery in the Prius is only about 90 pounds. The Lead Acid battery in an ordinary car is going to be in the 50-70lb range.

..in the interests af accuracy..
Few regular 12 car batteries weigh more than 30lbs...certainly not in the small/ compact car division.
..and i suspect that 90lbs for the Prius is only the cell weight without all the packaging.
Early Prius packs were much heavier also.

I think you are right and win on both points. The gen 2 prius battery weight is more like 100lbs.
I did a little poking around on the net and 50lbs is a high figure.

*puts ketchup on hat in preparation for eating*

But on that note i was trying to illustrate that the prius battery is not some multi hundred pound rolling superfund site like the oil industry's nasty PR has made it out to be. They even dinged it for having a whopping 2 pounds of neodymium magnets in the motor.. LOL... i bet a Crystalyte 53xx-54xx, hubzilla etc have a similar amount of neo magnet lining the stator.

[o00scorpion00o]

I often get 4.3-4.5 L100kms in the Prius MK II, more than quiet a few manual or (stick shift) diesels of smaller size. It takes practice to get that though because you have to learn how to drive it properly and there are a few tricks you can to to maximise economy!

+ diesels are far less reliable these days with several reports of dpf and twin mass flywheel failure, very expensive! No thanks! One of the main reasons I did not want a modern diesel!

You really have cheap car leases there in the U.S it would cost 4 times that to lease here, If you could lease a Leaf or Honda E.V for 350 USD PM in Europe then E.v's would sell in the hundreds of thousands!

But I guess that isn't cheap in the U.S ? (SHOCKED)

[MitchJi]

DETROIT – At 118 miles per gallon, the Honda Fit electric vehicle is the most fuel-efficient in the United States. But getting that mileage isn't cheap — and it isn't always good for the environment.....

The electric Fit has an estimated price tag nearly twice as high as the gasoline-powered version. It would take 11 years before a driver makes up the difference and begins saving on fuel....

That's because the numbers don't add up for the average consumer.

• The electric Fit needs 28.6 kilowatt hours of electricity to go 100 miles. At the national average price of 11.6 cents per kilowatt hour, that costs $3.30.

A gas-powered automatic-transmission Fit, which gets 31 miles per gallon, needs to burn 3.2 gallons to travel 100 miles. At the national average price of $3.57 per gallon of gasoline, that's $11.52.

• People drive an average of almost 13,500 miles a year, so a typical driver would spend $445 on electricity for an electric Fit over a year, and $1,552 on gasoline for a regular Fit.

• Honda has valued the price of an electric Fit at $29,125 after a $7,500 federal tax credit. That's $12,210 more than the gas-powered Fit — a savings of $1,107 per year to make up the difference between the electric and the gas-powered version.

"People are smart. They're looking for the deal," he said. "Is somebody going to fork out $15,000 more for something that gets them less range than their car now? It's not happening."

Is it smart to believe that gas is going to remain at $3.57 or even close over the next 11 years?

Is it smart to believe that gas is going to continue to be available (lines or worse) over the next 11 years?

Is it smart to believe that there won't be maintenance savings driing an EV compared to an ICE for 11 years?

[wineboyrider]

Hey, we also got the Geo Metro for a moment.. that car was received much like a wet turd in a blanket... why? .. dinky.. low power.. rattly..

Hey, I used to have a 3 cylinder geo metro xfi in the 1993 when gas was cheap, but I used to drive over 180 miles to and fro with it with no air conditioning in the 105 degree heat...loved it!
I also bought if new for 6,000 and after a hailstorm dented I collected 4,000 in insurance and then I sold the sucker with 180,000 miles on it for $1800. Best automobile investment I ever made, but it was a box....lol

[TylerDurden]

Is it smart to believe that gas is going to remain at $3.57 or even close over the next 11 years?

[o00scorpion00o]

Is it smart to believe that gas is going to remain at $3.57 or even close over the next 11 years?

I'd kill for cheap fuel like that!

[TylerDurden]

I'd kill for cheap fuel like that!

We do.

[MitchJi]

Hi,

http://green.autoblog.com/2012/06/06/honda-finds-that-5-plus-gas-is-tipping-point/

Do $6-a-gallon gas and electric vehicles go hand in hand?

Well, it may be a stretch to conclude that from a two-minute fifty-second man-on-the-street video posted by Honda, but it may not be far off.

Honda said it polled 1,000 Americans about their attitudes towards both buying more fuel-efficient vehicles and potential advanced powertrains and interviewed a handful of men and women to see if their views were consistent with the larger poll.

The Japanese automaker found that, while 30 percent of respondents would actively seek out a more fuel-efficient car if gas hit $5 a gallon, 62 percent would do the same if gas hit $6 a gallon. Meanwhile, 15 percent said nothing would make them consider a fuel sipper.

Additionally, 37 percent of those polled said electricity would be the primary source of vehicle power 20 years from now, while 19 percent said gasoline would still reign supreme by then and another 19 percent saw biofuels as the fuel of the future. We know that just because people think something is true doesn't make that thing come true, but 37 percent market share in 2032 would be something, wouldn't it? See Honda's video below.

[TylerDurden]

If I'm reading the chart properly, the price of gas in the US doubles in four years. It got knocked back by the GFC in '08... but, low and behold: $4/gal is mostly back.

If the trend persists, $6/gal in the US is two years away.

So a gas powered Fit sees $6 * 3.2 = $19.20/100mi x135 = $2,592/yr.

Subtract $445 and save $2,147/yr driving the Fit EV.

Divide $12,210 by 2147 and find 5.68 years of savings pays for the difference in price.


Well, I'm not sure the price of US gas will hit $6/gal in two years, but I can easily see it average $6/gal over the next 5.7 yrs.

[Arlo1]

The MPG rating for an electric is very Stupid. KWH/mile or KM is the only proper way to rate a EV. Everyone pays different prices for electricity and what about those who don't pay anything?

[neptronix]

You also don't put gallons of anything into an electric car. No place to put any kind of liquid fuel

[ProDigit]

Toyota sells a non-hybrid version outside the US that gets better mileage than the Prius.

??? I thought the Prius is a unique model..please link to the non hybrid version.
..unless you are referring to a plug in ev rather than an ICE ??

There are many cars that get better mileage than the Prius..in certain conditions,..but few that can match it in urban use.

In Europe and Asia, they mainly sell lower power, smaller cars.
The Toyota Yaris is sold in Belgium and the Netherlands with an MPG rating (after conversion) of ~47MPG avg.
In Japan, cars are even more efficient than this.
They're equipped with a 65-90HP, 1-1.4L instead of the 1.5L 106HP from USA. Also their body work is lighter, and the car is smaller.

They even sell a Yaris Hybrid there!

Yaris isn't the only one, there are plenty more cars in Europe using way less fuel than the yaris; and that's not even including the DIESEL cars, which use on average 1,2 to 1,5x less fuel.

But if you ask me, they're not enjoyable, largely underpowered cars; and way less safe!

[ProDigit]

If I'm reading the chart properly, the price of gas in the US doubles in four years. It got knocked back by the GFC in '08... but, low and behold: $4/gal is mostly back.

If the trend persists, $6/gal in the US is two years away.

So a gas powered Fit sees $6 * 3.2 = $19.20/100mi x135 = $2,592/yr.

Subtract $445 and save $2,147/yr driving the Fit EV.

Divide $12,210 by 2147 and find 5.68 years of savings pays for the difference in price.


Well, I'm not sure the price of US gas will hit $6/gal in two years, but I can easily see it average $6/gal over the next 5.7 yrs.

Not if another economy crash will happen (which it tends to look like that).

Also, If Brazil is going to dig for that oil,and some countries will create an independent oil company digging in the arctic fields, prices could remain affordable (between 3-4.99) for the coming 25-30 years. Then again, a lot of emerging markets like China, Brazil, etc, might push up the prices too, as all these people will want to have vehicles too.

[ProDigit]

The MPG rating for an electric is very Stupid. KWH/mile or KM is the only proper way to rate a EV. Everyone pays different prices for electricity and what about those who don't pay anything?

What about the chevy volt?
It does have a generator that goes on as soon as the battery starts getting low.

[o00scorpion00o]

In Europe and Asia, they mainly sell lower power, smaller cars.
The Toyota Yaris is sold in Belgium and the Netherlands with an MPG rating (after conversion) of ~47MPG avg.
In Japan, cars are even more efficient than this.
They're equipped with a 65-90HP, 1-1.4L instead of the 1.5L 106HP from USA. Also their body work is lighter, and the car is smaller.

They even sell a Yaris Hybrid there!

Yaris isn't the only one, there are plenty more cars in Europe using way less fuel than the yaris; and that's not even including the DIESEL cars, which use on average 1,2 to 1,5x less fuel.

But if you ask me, they're not enjoyable, largely underpowered cars; and way less safe!

And I had this much fuel left.




I regularly get 62-65 imp mpg or 51.62-54.11 U.S mpg in a MK II Prius which is far better than any diesel I've ever driven including my Sisters smaller Peugeot 1.6 90 hp HDI Diesel, and that's per tank not trip! My commute mainly allows for 50-65 mph on the motorway. Trip of around 130 kms per day.

Last week I got 543 miles on 10.83 us gallons, or 41 litres. My Audi A4 Diesel auto, usually needed 60 litres to do 600 miles, and the Prius has more room!

Based on my calculations and the fuel I had left before I refuel I could travel 1100 kms or 683.5 miles on a full tank of 45 litres or 11.88 us gallons!

Diesel isn't the great savour it used to be and petrols have narrowed the gap. Diesels cost more so the pay back can be well over 80,000 miles of driving!

The Prius cost me 8500 Euro's with 55,000 miles. The best small Diesel I could get would have cost about 10,500 with about 75-80000 miles, do the maths and the Prius was by far the best value, and it has no cam belts too which hard to find on a diesel!

The only available cars had manual gear boxes, and Auto's mainly found on V.W's, Audi's costing far more again, the Prius is automatic and getting 65 u.k mpg in a petrol automatic is fantastic and beats most diesels, especially automatic diesels.

It took me a while to learn the tricks and priuschat.com helped me find them. But there is no way in hell I'm going back to diesel again. Too much of a compromise, noise and vibration, while so much better today, still very noticeable in all but the premium German brands such as A6, 7 series etc!

You may get 72 mpg u.k in a 3 cylinder VW Polo Bluemotion, but it's a lot smaller than the Prius and a 3 cylinder rattlebox diesel ? no frocking way!

Sure Europeans drive smaller cars than in the U.S but we don't care, For Europeans driving big thirsty cars would be like Americans driving small fuel efficient cars, we wouldn't do it even if fuel were cheap, + we got much older narrower streets in towns and cities! Europe wasn't build with the auto mobile in mind!

[Punx0r]

You need to study it a bit more. The battery in the Prius is only about 90 pounds. The Lead Acid battery in an ordinary car is going to be in the 50-70lb range.

In ordinary driving, the prius emits about 1/5th of what the hummer would, and uses less than half the gasoline. Over the lifetime of the vehicle, do you really think that producing a recycleable 90 pound battery is gonna produce so much emissions that it makes the hummer greener?

Please don't let me down. I want to believe i'm in a community full of intelligent people. Do some research and see if you still believe that FUD put out there by the oil industry

I've looked but haven't found this info, so maybe one of the Prius owners can help: If you sit on an open road at ~80mph, what fuel economy does the prius return?

AFAIK, the motor system in a situation like this is simply dead weight.

The closest I could find are the US "highway" figures, which are 41-45-48mpg (gen 1-3).

Possibly also worth noting that the Prius doesn't use an otto-cycle engine - which goes some way to explain its efficiency and relatively poor power output for its displacement.

I just get the impression that they would have liked to build a pure EV, or a "proper" hybrid, where the engine simply drives a generator. As I said before though, I understand that everyone was massively hampered by the restrictions in available batteries.

I'm not sure it's realistic to compare the prius to a hummer, the hummer is far from an average or common car. How do you figure the emissions for the hummer? If CO2 it should be proportional to the fuel consumed. If NOx, SO2 etc, then fair enough.

[mdd0127]

I'd kill for cheap fuel like that!

We do.

What is the best method for getting chewed up banana off of a keyboard?