Electrolysis of water into Hydrogen & Oxygen

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

Haven't yet seen any posts or reviews from those who ordered the H2 powered toy car last year.
This same outfit also claim to have sold H2 powered ebikes yet no kit that you can actually get ahold of, doesn't even show coming soon.
Storage tanks seem reasonably priced.

http://www.horizonfuelcell.com/store.htm

[vanilla ice]

On the P51 the water injection didn't actually add the power, the "emergency mode" high levels of boost did that. The water was only there to keep pistons from melting under high boost. Injecting that water in displaces combustion chamber space that could otherwise be used for fuel or air. Its a worthwhile trade off with this particular forced induction ICE. Not so with your run of the mill normally asperated ICE.

[Joepostal]

Oh I didn't know exactly how the P51 worked exactly... Still a really neat solution. I saw a video on utube the guy claimed that he was getting 48 mpg. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfr-YXNEN0g&feature=related Supposedly before the H injection he was getting 38mpg. That is quite a bit better than 10%. If you can get the thing working for a couple hundred bucks you might be able to break even much faster.

[vanilla ice]

Guy I know just finished building a home depot electrolysis setup for his race car hauler. I'm going to wait see his numbers before I invest anything in to one of these. I'm still skeptical. If he sends me pics I will post them.

[dogman]

Before i got a better battery for my e bike i slowed down a bit and got two more days drive to work than the usual five. That was a really signifigant improvement. I think a lot of people put gizmo x in the car and then drive differently since now they are thinking about it. If that is how it works fine, it still got you better mileage eh! A lot of miracle mileage things supposedly sequestered by big oil or car companies do work, but just cost too much for practicality. As soon as everything else gets expensive enough things that were expensive seem cheap all of a sudden. I'm still waiting for electricity too cheap to meter I was promised in 1962.

[vanilla ice]

Right, placebo effect. Thats how I was thinking this worked also, but who knows. I just payed $5.05 per gallon for diesel today, if this keeps up I'm going to be joining Tyler's 55mph club for sure.. I'd rather run 85psi tire pressure and slow way down than waste money bodging together a placebo machine.

[dogman]

I've been running tires 10 to 20 pounds overpressure for years. In the desert, low tire pressure shreds the tire and kills ya long before the tread wears funny. Just don't tailgate, you will stop longer. I knew how much I could gain by slowing down in big ugly gas hog trucks, usually with a load of rock or a trailer. But It really did amaze me that it works that good on something allready small, aerodynamic and efficient. Still the only one driving slow in my town under the age of 75. I made the mistake of calculating all the real costs of my Subaru to drive one mile and the results made me buy an e bike. Gas was not even half the cost. Hauling the weight of the car around didn't cost as much as parking it in the driveway to start with.

[Joepostal]

Yeah I got a jeep, I put new tires on it and didn't pay attention to the tire pressure for a few months. I have heard that over inflating can improve mileage and I read the manual for the tires said that you lose about 1lb/month. So after watching the miles/tank for the first few months I was averaging about 220 miles. When I finally checked the tire pressure one was significantly lower than others so I over inflated the tires by 5lbs. That changed my mileage to about 250. The other positive side effect is my tires seem to lose air at the same rate now. At 35lbs one of the tires would leak faster than others.

Now that it is warm I am riding my bike almost every day. When I finally get the money I will build a crazy ebike. I will spend way more than I will ever save in gas But it will take quite a bit of demand to bring prices down so I will happily be with you all buying expensive batteries and motors.

And Sorry I am a little off subject...

[dirty_d]

i actually made one of these electrolizers to boost your engines efficiency, i never actually used it on my car though it was too half assed. but i really don't think that they will increase your mpg at all, but probably reduce it due to the additional load on your alternator, these things draw about 15A and produce about 1 liter of H2/O2 per minute. if you think about it tahts too little gas to possible make any difference. say youre cruising down the highway with a 2.0L engine doing 1500rpm, the throttle plate will be partially closed so youre not going to get a ful 2 liters of air into the engine, maybe 1 liter. so in 1 minute of running you have 1500 liters of air into the engine and 1 liter of 66% H2 and 33% O2.

you only get 1 part H2/O2 and 1500 parts air on each cycle, that cant possible make any difference. but i do believe the science behind is it valid, ive heard of some kind of hybrid gasoline/hydrogen engine where some gas goes through a reformer to create H2 and CO2, and that is fed into the engine, but it was something like 100 liters per minute, the idea was that you could run a super lean mixture of air:gasoline because the hydrogen would prevent the engine from knocking and misfiring because it burns at almost any ratio of H2:air. the efficiency comes from being able to run the engine with the throttle plate wide open while controlling the engine output by controlling the air:gasoline ratio the same as a diesel engine. having the throttle plate wide open keeps the engine from having to waste power sucking air into the intake manifold with a high vacuum.

so maybe if you had some high tech gasoline-hydrogen reformer that can make 100+ liters of H2 per minute, but a little electrolysis cell that makes 1 liter per minute i highly doubt will make any difference at all. i bet its just people trying to make money of people gullible enough to resort to buying stuff like this with the rising gas prices. they do have youtube videos of people showing it off and saying it works, but they are also the people who are selling them.

[diver]

My buddy is now playing with this stuff. he claims that they make 1 liter using 20 amps. they drilled a hole in the manifold and just inject the hydrogen into it. Im waiting for a explosion in the engine like a nitrous explosion.lol. They are using PVC scheduled 80 as the gas generating tank.

[TylerDurden]

If the system draws <50A (1hp) and the return is greater than 1hp, it's a win.

[JRP3]

If the system draws <50A (1hp) and the return is greater than 1hp, it's a win.

Doesn't that sound impossible in a closed system? How can you get more power from the hydrogen and oxygen than it takes to split them from water?

[TylerDurden]

If the system draws <50A (1hp) and the return is greater than 1hp, it's a win.

Doesn't that sound impossible in a closed system? How can you get more power from the hydrogen and oxygen than it takes to split them from water?

If it's infused in fuel-combustion and improves that process, it's more like a catalyst.

[Joepostal]

I mentioned earlier that they claim that HHO causes a more complete burn...

The first Google result from a quick search for "emissions testing hho" url]http://www.pacific-nw-hho.com/emissions.html[/url]
I read a few more pages and it seems like these kind of results might be accurate but I would like to test it my self.

I am sure that if this is the case the devices deserve a closer look. I just couldn't justify the expense.
I only drive <4 miles round trip to work BUT I can justify spending 10k on a few electric bikes.

[JRP3]

I mentioned earlier that they claim that HHO causes a more complete burn...

The first Google result from a quick search for "emissions testing hho" url]http://www.pacific-nw-hho.com/emissions.html[/url]
I read a few more pages and it seems like these kind of results might be accurate but I would like to test it my self.

Am I missing something? All those test show is that the vehicle can pass an emissions test, no before HHO and after HHO comparison or anything.

[dogman]

A more complete combustion is very plausible, and would be worth it even if it cost you more. My common sense alarm says teeny tiny ammounts are not enough to affect it much. Its not a catylyst, Just a gas that burns real good. In large quantities it would surely have signifigant effects.

[TylerDurden]

Its not a catylyst, Just a gas that burns real good.

Agreed.

Analogy was to advance the idea of getting more energy, by combining mixtures in the ICE. (redundantly repeating, I know)

Flame propagation is the major issue in ICE efficiency, so the HHO may burn early in the event, heating the fuel/air to higher combustion temps and supporting more complete energy extraction.

[truckerzero]

so if the effeincy increase in the ice is greater than the energy used to create hho then you could get a increase in fuel milage is that the idea?

[dogman]

That is how I understand it to work. But I still suspect a lot of people just start driving better after the install, and viola! they get better mileage. There is no doubt though, that the gas burns real good. Especially at about midnight on the 4th. My wife got called out to the NMSU chem building one summer. The campus police were sure the whole building was going to collapse and the fire dept wouldn't get within 1/4 mile of the building. That must have been one loud boom. Too much fun gas avaliable to a bored grad student.

[truckerzero]

true bu whats weird driving better dont always help i got a ford explorer and weather im soft on takeoffs and drive 50 mph or accellarate hard and drive 60 to 65 i always get 13 mpg nothing i do makes a difference but im selling it becase im getting a grand prix pretty soon that gets like twice the milage by by to the big gas guzzelers

[JRP3]

My common sense alarm says teeny tiny ammounts are not enough to affect it much. Its not a catylyst, Just a gas that burns real good. In large quantities it would surely have signifigant effects.

That's the thing, these on board HHO generators only produce teeny tiny amounts, seemingly too small to matter.

[dogman]

Iv'e had the same experience with other fords. But mine have been so old they run shitty no matter what. Bugs and Subarus I've owned seemed very sensitive to how you drive. Maybe just a different type of vehicle, but I have heard ford owners say the same thing many times. More modern stuff seems different. My wifes focus seems to get really good mileage if you drive smart, and avereage if you don't.

[truckerzero]

my sunfire gets 27 driven concervative and 25 if driven hard maby its just these american cars that just get badmilage no mmatter how you drive

[dogman]

Multipy that 2mpg times the mileage for the year and you will see that it may be worth it to you to drive better. Once you are in an electric car, you will have to or get stranded so learning how now is worth it.

[mcstar]

Here's some math to make it concrete...

At 25mpg if you drive 10K miles => you burn 400Gallons @ $3.80 == $1520
At 27mpg if you drive 10K miles => you burn 370Gal @ 3.80 == $1470
Savings == $50 if you're consistent

At 25mpg if you drive 20K miles => you burn 800Gallons @ $3.80 == $3040
At 27mpg if you drive 20K miles => you burn 740.7Gal @ 3.80 == $2814
Savings == $225 if you're consistent