The 2017 EV's

General Discussion about electric vehicles.
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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by arkmundi » Jul 08, 2015 2:04 am

About the Nissan Leaf ....
This is how A123 care about quality control
Joseph C. wrote:...Ghosn's number two at Nissan, Carlos Taveres, in response to Pelata, rushed the battery production before they were ready. PSA for some stupid reason now have him as CEO.

That's the real story behind the LEAF's problems. ... Basically, two morons were responsible for Nissan's problems and both of them probably should have been kicked out of the door ages ago.
EV's are batteries on wheels - its the substantial part of the cost/performance equation. Yes, by putting in some cheap battery, its possible to pull the vehicle cost down into the target $35K range. But that's not what we're looking for. We want to identify all the EV's in the 2017 model year that are getting the cost/performance equation right without sacrificing range, or sacrificing the cycle life, the longevity of the battery. We've got some confidence Tesla is getting it right.

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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by arkmundi » Jul 10, 2015 3:22 pm


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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by Joseph C. » Aug 17, 2015 5:14 pm

Looks like phase one for the Nissan LEAF is about to be put in place - the 30KW hr battery pack.

Inside EVs were on the ball.

http://insideevs.com/nissan-dealer-leak ... s-offered/
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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by Joseph C. » Sep 10, 2015 4:03 pm

It looks like Nissan will soon reclaim the top spot and become the dominant EV in Europe and North America.

Best to go to the site below for a proper break-down.

http://insideevs.com/2016-nissan-leaf-107-miles/
2016 Nissan LEAF: 107 Miles EPA Range – Full Specs/Pricing


10 hours ago by Jay Cole 152Comments

2016 Nissan LEAF Sees All-Electric Range Improve To 107 Miles

Nissan has taken the wraps off the 2016 Nissan LEAF, and the company did not disappoint on earlier range expectations as both the SV and SL trims now come equipped with a 30 kWh battery, giving the LEAF 107 miles (172 km) of EPA rated range, as well as a new 8 year/100,000 mile battery warranty.

The base S trim level still comes with 2015 model year’s 24 kWh battery, good for 84 miles of range.

As for pricing, the base Nissan LEAF remains unchanged at $29,010 (+$850 delivery), while the extra 23 miles found in the SV and SL trims see the prices increase anywhere from $1,600 (SL) to $2,100.

After the federal government’s incentive is factored in, a 107 mile LEAF will set you back at least $26,700 before any dealer or state-level incentives are applied:

* – Nissan LEAF S – $29,010 ($29,010)
* – Nissan LEAF SV – $34,200 ($32,100) – now includes standard quick charging
* – Nissan LEAF SL – $36,790 ($35,170)

(full spec sheet on the 2016 Nissan LEAF can be found below, all prices +$850 delivery)

A larger battery also means a greater sweet spot for fast charging, hence all the new 30 kWh LEAFs can now be quick-charged to 80% (from the low battery warning) in about 30 minutes, which nets about 22% more miles of range over that of the base S trim.

Level 2 charging stays at 6.6 kW and a full charge will set SV and SL LEAFs back about 6 hours, as opposed to 5 hours with the 24 kWh battery.

Internationally: If you happen to reside in Europe, the 2016 Nissan LEAF gets a new 155 mile/250 km rating based on the NEDC system.

Pricing on the longer range Acenta and Tekna trim grades has yet to be announced across all of Europe, but in the UK, the 30 kWh LEAF Acenta starts from £24,490 (OTR with PiCG), and from £26,490 on the 30 kWh Tekna trim level.

Additionally, the base LEAF (S trim) now comes with a standard 5″ screen (as opposed to the “no screen” console found in the 2015 model), with the 7″ screen in the SV and SL trims continuing in the new 2016 edition.

Nissan says the infotainment and connectivity features have been enhanced and improved for the 2016 model under the standard “Nissan Connect” banner.

A new graphic interface is now found inside the 2016 LEAF, as well as charging screen data that is updated every time the car is put into use.

The Nissan Connect EV telematics systems allows for all the remote connection functions to the vehicle one would expect, but also touts improved voice recognition, and an improved mobile app.

2016 Nissan LEAF New Heads-Up Display Menu
“Audio, entertainment and connectivity upgrades start with the addition of standard NissanConnect with Mobile Apps with 5.0-inch color display for LEAF S models. The system includes Bluetooth® Hands-free Phone System, Streaming audio via Bluetooth®, Hands-free Text Messaging Assistant and USB connection port for iPod® interface and other compatible devices.

2016 LEAF SV and SL grades add standard NissanConnect with Navigation and Mobile Apps–featuring a 7.0-inch color display with multi-touch control, Nissan Voice Recognition for navigation and audio, HD radio, and SiriusXM Travel LinkTM for weather, fuel prices, movie listings, stock info and sports (SiriusXM subscription required, sold separately). The menu screen graphics and customization process have been improved and charging screen information is now automatically updated every time the ignition is turned on and with every 12 miles of driving.”

On the 30 kWh battery itself:
“The new battery offers more advantages than just the 27 percent increase in driving range – it also offers improved battery performance,” said Andrew Speaker, director, Nissan EV Sales & Marketing

The 30 kWh battery resides in the same battery space under the LEAF as the existing 24 kWh pack, and weighs just 46 pounds (21 kg)more.

“Improved electrode material with revised chemistry results in higher power density and enhanced battery durability upon charge and discharge.”

Basically, the introduction of Carbon, Nitrogen and Magnesium to the electrodes improves performance of the cells, while Nissan adds the “change to the cell layout also contributes to the gain“, although we aren’t quite sure how.

As evidence of a growing confidence in the 30 kWh battery’s cell chemistry (and the fact it will now take less battery cycles to go further), Nissan warrants battery loss below 9 bars of capacity (70%), for the first 8 years or 100,000 miles (160,000 km) in the US and in Europe. The warranty on the S trim stays consistent with that of the 2015 LEAF, at 5 years or 60,000 miles.

As for the actual pack structure, the original 24 kWh battery is made up of 48 modules composed of 4 cells each, for a total of 192 cells. The new 30 kWh battery has double the cells per module (8), but still 192 cells in total. Nissan once again points to automotive-specific battery formats as a superior commodity.

“Unlike conventional cylindrical batteries, the thin, compact laminated cells offer more flexibility in packaging and design applications.”

New Colors:
As expected, three colors have been added to the 2016 LEAF lineup, while two have left the building.

* – New Colors: Forged Bronze, Coulis Red and Deep Blue Pearl
* – Deleted Colors: Cayenne Red and Morningsky Blue

Efficiency and Performance:
The entry level LEAF S retains the same 84 miles of range as last year’s model, as well as the 126 MPGe city/108 MPGe highway efficiency rating, which is good for a combined 114 MPGe.

The LEAF SV/SL with 107 miles of range has a slightly lower city rating than the base model – registering 124 MPGe, and an identical 108 MPGe highway score, which lowers the combined rating slightly to 112 MPGe.

All three trim levels feature the same 107 horsepower and 187 lb-ft of torque output as in the previous model year, while the S trim level has an optional “Charge Package” that upgrades the base model to the same 6.6 kW charging (from 3.6 kW) as well as adding the CHAdeMO fast charging port that comes standard in the SV and SL trims.

2016 Nissan LEAF Now Gains 22% More Miles During A 30 Minute Quick-Charging Session
2016 Nissan LEAF Now Gains 22% More Miles During A 30 Minute Quick-Charging Session
Production and Release date:
The New 2016 Nissan LEAF Takes A Spin In Europe (in Gun Metallic Color)
The New 2016 Nissan LEAF Takes A Spin In Europe (in Gun Metallic Color)
We also took advantage of a chat with Nissan earlier this week to pepper them about when the 2016 Nissan LEAF would be available, but all they would commit to was that the “2016 LEAF will go on sale later this fall“.

So somewhere between September 23nd and December 31st then Nissan?

Our own sources indicate that 2016 Nissan LEAF production actually began in earnest in early August in Smryna, TN, and that we may see some regionally-fortunate deliveries happen late in this month – although mid-October seems to be when the ‘sales ball‘ will really get rolling for the 2016 LEAF.

For Europe, the new, longer range Nissan LEAF will still be produced at the company’s Sunderlank, UK facility, but sales begin a little later – in January 2016.

New 2016 Nissan LEAF Batteries (both chemistries) Are Made Next Door To Manufacturing Facility In Smyrna, TN
New 2016 Nissan LEAF Batteries (both chemistries) Are Made Next Door To Manufacturing Facility In Smyrna, TN
Nissan LEAF SV and SL Trim Level Also Adds:
2016 Nissan LEAF Standard 17" Tires (SV/SL)
2016 Nissan LEAF Standard 17″ Tires (SV/SL)
* – 2016 Nissan LEAF SV:

Quick Charge Port
6.6 kW onboard charger
NissanConnect with Navigation and Mobile Apps
NissanConnect EV
7.0-inch color display with multi-touch control
six-speaker audio system
hybrid heater system that provides superior cold weather performance while consuming less energy
heated outside mirrors and steering wheel
17-inch aluminum-alloy wheels.
* – 2016 Nissan LEAF SL:

photovoltaic solar panel spoiler
fog lights
LED low beam auto on/off headlights
cargo cover
HomeLink® Universal Transceiver
leather-appointed seats
heated rear seats


Just two option packages are now offered:
* – Quick Charge Package (S grade only) – adds Level 2 6.6 kW onboard charging (deletes 3.6 kW charging) and Quick Charge Port (CHAdemo)

* – Premium Package (SV and SL times) – adds Around View® Monitor and Energy Efficient Series Bose® seven- speaker audio.

The majority of the changes you see here will also be found on your 2016 Nissan LEAF with a couple of exceptions.
You don’t get the “Forged Bronze” color option – which is ok, it is unlikely to be very popular because, well…it’s brown. You will also be losing the “Glacier White” color option; although isn’t “Pearl White” enough anyway? But, you do finally get the standard 17″ wheels on the SV, like those of us in the US.

As a special 2016 perk, Canadians don’t have to buy the “Quick Charge” package in the base S trim, because it now comes standard with both 6.6 kW L2 charging, and the quick charge port – although you still will be paying the around $32,000 for the base model (but don’t convert that to US dollars Americans, as that’s only a little over $24k)

Only the black interior is available.

As it is significantly colder on average in Canada than the US, all LEAF models come standard equipped with a heated steering wheel and both heated front and rear seats.

Editor’s Note: This is not the next generation of the Nissan LEAF, but rather an upgraded version of the last model year of the first generation car. The all-new, next generation Nissan LEAF (with an estimated 170-200 miles of range) is expected to arrive in Q2 of 2017.
Hopefully, the nitrogen and carbon elements are mistakes and they actually mean nickel and cobalt.
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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by Hillhater » Sep 10, 2015 6:48 pm

8 cells per module ??
So is that 4S,2P. Or. 2S,4P, ?
But that picture of the new module looks like just 2 of the current 2S2P modules on top of each other ?

Image
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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by Joseph C. » Sep 10, 2015 7:45 pm

Can you really tell without opening up the case?
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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by Hillhater » Sep 10, 2015 8:54 pm

pretty much yes !
what you see in that picture is a new "8 cell module" assembled by using two of the previous 4 cell ( 2s,2p, ) groups , but without the aluminium casings between them. even the original 2p, 2p, external terminations are still used.
...so they have the same number (192) of (bigger capacity) cells still configured as 96S, 2P , but only using 24 bigger modules.
Result is 50% less casing hardware.
These are the current 2s,2p, modules..
from here..http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/sh ... 63170.html
Image
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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by Joseph C. » Sep 12, 2015 11:05 am

I can't see the pictures but I'll take your word for it. I assume someone messed up. Perhaps Inside EVs or Nissan themselves.
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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by Punx0r » Sep 12, 2015 11:45 am

Meanwhile, still no GM Volt in Europe.

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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by Hillhater » Sep 12, 2015 4:59 pm

Punx0r wrote:Meanwhile, still no GM Volt in Europe.
We have them,...but they are unrealisticaly priced ($60,000). , with no rebates available ! :cry: :cry:
Joseph C. wrote:?.... I assume someone messed up. Perhaps Inside EVs or Nissan themselves.
.?? Messed up on what ?
The figures are all correct. Smart move on Nissans part to remove 50% of the hardware.
But, I don't understand why they would mess about having 2 different capacity packs so similar ( 24, and 30 kWhr ), ..
....unless it is just a way of shifting current inventory ?
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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by Joseph C. » Sep 12, 2015 5:17 pm

Hillhater wrote: .?? Messed up on what ?
The figures are all correct. Smart move on Nissans part to remove 50% of the hardware.
But, I don't understand why they would mess about having 2 different capacity packs so similar ( 24, and 30 kWhr ), ..
....unless it is just a way of shifting current inventory ?
I thought you meant that the module only contained half the number of cells that they said. That's why I questioned how you could know the number of cells without opening the case up.

Never mind, I see what you were getting at.

They are losing sales badly in Europe to the Golf and the Soul - that's why they needed to up their offering. The introduction of the Soul EV meant that they no longer had the longest range in their market segment. And they have to combat the Golf brand too. Best to increase capacity than lose sales even if the competition is fire-prone cars like Volkswagen.
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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by The fingers » Jan 06, 2016 3:14 pm

http://www.government-fleet.com/news/st ... urce=Email :mrgreen: Don't think I can cover 397 miles in 45 minutes to be there to see it in person. :(
General Motors will unveil its 2017 Chevrolet Bolt battery-electric vehicle on Jan. 6 at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, the company announced.
With the introduction of the Bolt, GM will offer four vehicles with partially or fully electrified powertrains, including the Volt, Malibu Hybrid, and Spark EV.
The 2017 Bolt is expected to deliver 200 miles of range at a cost of less than $30,000 after federal tax credits.
GM will debut the vehicle via Facebook Live, the social media platform's livestreaming platform, to fans of the Chevrolet Facebook page.GM will who live video of the debut and a 360-degree view of the vehicle.
The unveiling will begin at 1 p.m. West Coast time.
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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by Hillhater » Jan 06, 2016 4:59 pm

This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by arkmundi » Jan 08, 2016 3:01 am

This is my first post on the forum for awhile :oops:, after the débâcle of being banned for attempting to protect some climate-change related threads from being trolled to death by certain extremists on the forum with god-rights. The whole affair left with a distaste for this forum, so I've been elsewhere.

But... after sitting on the sidelines of the formative electric vehicle market, and seeing what's happening this year, I've decided to make the leap. I'll wait until I can test drive some of the emergent models in the affordability/range race before deciding.

Top of my list still, even after considering the Chevy Bolt, is the Tesla Model 3. FYI, Tesla is launching its new model this March, and it should be interesting. I'll be heading over to the closest Tesla showroom in Framingham for the launch party. The sales guy there has added my email to their growing list of interested people and will notify me with the details as they become available. And maybe, just maybe, I'll get to test drive the Model 3.

In an interesting development, I recently got this email from newsletter@teslamotors.com, to which I'm subscribed:
TeslaHomeChargeFree.png
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With Model S, you'll never have to visit a gas station again. Simply plug in when you come home and your car will be ready with a full charge by morning.

With TXU Energy Free Nights®, charging is also free. When you arrive home and plug in your Model S from 9 p.m. to 6 a.m., you’re charging with free electricity.

Using our location-aware charge timer, you can be sure you’re always taking advantage of free hours from TXU Energy. Model S will charge at the time you’ve scheduled using the Touchscreen or a smart phone, so your daily commute has no impact on the environment or your wallet.

To find out more, click here.
Anyway, happy new year! :mrgreen:

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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by Warren » Jan 08, 2016 10:26 am

I wish the Model 3 was launching in March. My understanding is that we will get to see the mock-up that has been hiding under a sheet in some photos. Even Tesla fanboys expect we won't actually be able to get one until 2020. That is five years from now. I suspect that by then the Bolt will have sold to any green fanatics who are still solvent. I know my wife and I will be first in line to trade in our old Corolla. We had $99 down when the Leaf was still supposed to be a "100 mile range" EV, and test drove the BMW i3 Rex this spring when it looked like the only practical EV option for folks living in the country...nice car but way too expensive.

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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by Arlo1 » Jan 08, 2016 3:59 pm

Warren. Tesla will announce the model 3 in March they will show a pre-production model then and start taking deposits. After that Elon has announced they plan for deliveries starting end of 2017. Even if he is a little late it won't be 2020... Not to mention cars are sold all the time look at the world no how many people buy any EVs no won't effect sales a year from now if anything it might help because as the transition to EVs from ICE will help with things like charging networks to even people seeing their friends and neighbors driving them.
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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by Warren » Jan 08, 2016 4:55 pm

Arlo,

Elon has never delivered when he said, or at the price he said he would. I don't see why that would be different now. My wife and I are old, and won't be driving much longer, so waiting several more years to experience electric is not wise. My biggest concern is that we will be in no position financially to buy a new car in a year, let alone two or three. The global Ponzi scheme that ended in 2008, and has been on pause for the last eight years, is finally unraveling.

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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by Hillhater » Jan 09, 2016 5:24 pm

I'm of the same mind Warren.
Sure the Tesla 3 will be nice, but it won't be cheap or available for some time.
And new cars are always a risk for early buyers.
If you are in the USA , can you not find one of those lease deals....Leafs and Sparks were going for $199 /month last I saw one ?....even a Volt would be affordable on a decent lease rate.
We won't get any of those options down here, ...a Volt is $60+k....
..our best value EV currently seems to be the Mitsubishi Outlander Hybrid SUV, with a 50 km electric range, for around $40k Au ($30k USA )
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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by Warren » Jan 09, 2016 5:33 pm

Hillhater,

"If you are in the USA , can you not find one of those lease deals....Leafs and Sparks were going for $199 /month last I saw one ?....even a Volt would be affordable on a decent lease rate."


Low mileage, used Leafs, and i-Mievs are super cheap here. However, forty years ago, we built a small, earth-bermed house on cheap land way out in the boonies. The downside was long commutes in my stripped down econobox. Nothing short of a Tesla, or a BMW i3 Rex would work for us...until now. I am totally stoked at the prospect.

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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by Hillhater » Jan 09, 2016 5:41 pm

Why not a Volt ? 40+ miles e range..
Wouldn't that work to minimise gas usage ?
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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by Arlo1 » Jan 09, 2016 5:44 pm

Elon won't be 3 years late on the model 3. If late at all. He is a smart person and most likely learnt from the mistakes on the first 3 cars he released. As well it dose not need to be as refined to get it into people's hands. He now has a bigger team of engineers then ever and says they are all working on it and its still on schedule. http://www.streetinsider.com/dr/news.php?id=11201394
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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by Warren » Jan 09, 2016 6:09 pm

Hillhater,

"Why not a Volt ? 40+ miles e range"

It would mean using gas every time we went to town. The BMW i3 Rex would work, but too expensive. I'd much prefer straight EV for lots of reasons, including less complexity.

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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by Warren » Jan 09, 2016 6:15 pm

Arlo,

I am pretty sure the Model 3 will be bigger, and more expensive than the Bolt, neither of which works for us. I'd really love a two-seater like the original Insight. That would do 200 miles on 40-45 kWh instead of the 50-55 kWh of a five passenger crossover Bolt. But I'll be dead before something like that is available.

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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by Arlo1 » Jan 09, 2016 8:07 pm

The biggest range killer at highway speeds is areo and Tesla is designing some killer areo. But non the less buy a bolt every EV on the road to replace a ICE is a good thing in my book... I'm working on my Leaf powered Honda CRX as we speak.... Had to sit down as my back hurts. :)
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RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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Re: The 2017 EV's

Post by Warren » Jan 09, 2016 9:18 pm

Arlo,

Yeah. I can't wait to see what the Model 3 looks like. He did say he might do something radical. That would be awesome, but I can't see anything truly aero selling to the general public. They want a box to haul they latest load of crap home from the big box store.

The CRX is a sweet little car. I still don't get why Nissan didn't come out with an actual 100 mile two-seater first.

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