wheelies vs. speed

[Matt Gruber]

since any car can go 50 mph, I'd rather be able to do wheelies!
How about you?

[xyster]

Wheelies need torque. I need torque more than speed.

[fechter]

I can't really imagine going 50mph on my scooter. 30mph is fast enough for me. I live in a hilly area, so give me wheelies!

[TylerDurden]

Wheelies are fun, but I have places to see, people to do...

re. choice #3: I won't pay big bucks for anything.

I had a pal who did both simultaneously on a Suzuki dirtbike: 50 mph wheelies... while passing cars on a two-lane road.

(I don't know if he is still alive or not.)

[Lowell]

Hopefully I'll have both soon, without spending big bucks

[Rassy]

I would always vote for torgue. Getting up a hill is worth a lot more than going fast on a bike, plus if you can get up a steep hill you can always go really fast going back down hill.

[Lowell]

Depends where you live. In terms of getting from A to B in less time, going faster on hills eats up a lot of watts.

[Ypedal]

I want it all.. and some day i'll have both.

Not sure yet how much lithium this requires.. but we're gonna found out now ain't we !

[tchapin]

I have no time or money but would want both..... There is nothing like passing a car at 50 mph doing a wheelie... Did it alot in high school. For some reason my dad thought a 1972 Kaw 2 cycle 750 (aka widowmaker yep the very impressive H-2) was a touring bike. Some people called it "dial a wheelie". When I think back, it's amazing I lived thru high school.

[TylerDurden]

When I think back, it's amazing I lived thru high school.

Amen.

[fechter]

Yes, the H-2 was a monster. I had an H-1E, which was still a widowmaker.

[BiGH]

50mph without a doubt, for sections of VERY smooth road they have down under. There are spots that just ask for a high top speed, its almost scarey. (plus the road bike already gets some high speeds, so i'd wanna top that)

I'm not really interested in doing wheelies - passing someone and breakneck speed is thrill enough without adding the danger of wheelies.

edit: i can't seem to vote

[roller]

where is the consensus break point, here? Looks like most folks want wheelie torque, and what is the top speed you need? Fifty is scary on a bike, forty will make you check your brakes frequently, thirty is about the top that's "legal" w/o motorcycle reg.

assuming you can't wheelie, how fast do you need?
how slow will you accept to have wheelie potential?

[Lowell]

50 isn't scary at all on a well mannered bike with hydraulic discs. I'm used to going triple that speed, so 50 seems pretty sedate.

[BiGH]

50 isnt' scarey if u come from a motorcycle / high speed cycling background.

I've done 50mph down hills on both of my bikes (roady and mtb). Used to own a FZR600 (first moto) that was capable of 124mph (200kph) and took it there a couple of times - THAT is what i call scarey.

as Lowell said as long as its a GOOD quality bike, 50mph will be fine. Try it on a kmart bike and u'll crap ur dacks tho.

and for reference went for a ride on sunday 45km climb and descent of roughly 100m average (so nearly flat). averaged 20mph max of 29mph.
now sure thats not 50mph but this is "normal" for a lot of us, so 50mph doesn't seem insane.

The other thing is: say u have a kawasaki capable of doing 300kph, how often do you sit at your maximum speed? its more that the bike has the power of getting there.

On one of the car forums i'm a member of -one guy has a great sig: "with power comes responsibility" - i think its very true - esp of this situation. - and applies to both doing wheelies and/or 50mph

[Mathurin]

50mph = motorcycle, not a bicycle

[scottclarke]

50mph = motorcycle, not a bicycle

Quite

[Lowell]

http://nsmb.com/

Hm.. don't see any motorcycle's there.

http://www.ihpva.org/

No motorcycles here...

[scottclarke]

http://nsmb.com/

Hm.. don't see any motorcycle's there.

http://www.ihpva.org/

No motorcycles here...

Indeed, but then the public road is not a closed track, nor a place where people (should) take unreasonable risks likely to endanger others if things go wrong.

When it comes down to it greater amounts of rubber on the road are needed to stop quickly as your speed increases. Public roads are fraught with danger and unexpected occurances - meaning stopping rapidly is important - 1 or 2 inch wide tyres just don't cut it when you are doing 40mph+.

There is a reason 2 and 3 wheelers (for use on the road) have tyres wider than 2 inches - and it's nothing to do with weight.

Scott

[Lowell]

http://nsmb.com/

Hm.. don't see any motorcycle's there.

http://www.ihpva.org/

No motorcycles here...

Indeed, but then the public road is not a closed track, nor a place where people (should) take unreasonable risks likely to endanger others if things go wrong.

When it comes down to it greater amounts of rubber on the road are needed to stop quickly as your speed increases. Public roads are fraught with danger and unexpected occurances - meaning stopping rapidly is important - 1 or 2 inch wide tyres just don't cut it when you are doing 40mph+.

There is a reason 2 and 3 wheelers (for use on the road) have tyres wider than 2 inches - and it's nothing to do with weight.

Scott

Can you show some numbers to support your claim on braking distances?

[scottclarke]

Lowell,

I don't have any numbers to hand - though I am certain they are published all over the place.

What I do have is over 20 years of racing (and public road) experience - pedal cycles - through motorcyles and on to 4 wheel cars.

I'll simplify this a bit for ya.

What stops quicker from 100mph - high end motorcycle or high end car?

Given that both can lock the brakes up at speed - its not a question of brake efficiency.

Scott

[scottclarke]

I have some numbers now

GSX-R 1000 ........ 100 to 0 - 5.7 seconds (dry)

Lotus Exige S...........100 to 0 - <4.5 seconds

Bugatti................100 to 0 - 4.4 seconds

FW25................ 100 to 0 - 2.5 seconds

In any case, to take a tyre to the edge of traction under braking is more dangerous the narrower the tyre contact patch simply because road irregularities make it more likely there will be times when there is no road in contact with the tyre - leading to a lock-up - hardly desirable at the front whilst cornering!

I do of course accept there are other factors at play with car vs bike - but again - braking (and accel limit) traction is a function of tyre contact patch (as well as the braking system upstream) and it is one of the reasons wider tyres are fitted to cars.

Note the above list is in order of tyre contact patch - smallest at the top.

Given that drag racers operate on the edge of and beyond available traction - a trip to your local strip would not be a bad idea:)

Scott

[Lowell]

How did exotic cars make it into this thread?? I thought you were talking about skinny bike tires being unsafe for braking from 40+ mph? I would say the brakes themselves make more difference than the contact patch size difference between a mountain bike tire and a motorcycle tire.

On dry pavement, my ebike will float the rear tire if the right lever is squeezed hard enough. Would a bigger tire make it stop quicker? I don't think so.

[scottclarke]

Lowell, here you have identified another limiting factor with 2 wheeled transport - a high CG. Yes, I too enjoy seeing how high I can get the back wheel - more so on motorcyles though:)

And the exotic cars - well an Exige is not exactly exotic but then I get your point

At the end of the day, a contact patch 1 or 2 cm wide by 2cm long is going to be influenced in a big way by a 'stone' with dimensions 1x1x1cm - whereas a tyre having a patch perhaps 4 by 4 won't be.

This is what I am talking about - braking in an emergency - this might mean whilst cornering on a less than perfect surface.

Scott

[Mathurin]

Well if you observe cyclists and speeds they go at, you'll get a range around 10-20 mph, with a median around 16-18.