new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

I am not using a tensioner at all on the motor to crank chain.

For the crank to rear wheel, I am using a rear derailleur as a tensioner which means I am rocking a single cog out of the 7 or 8 I have. Just too lazy to put a new wire in

Skaiwerd, I appreciate the recommendation, tho the Suntour seatpost I'm looking at definitely seems to be superior. I've seen quite the number of $20-30 seatposts like that one, they seem to just bounce around... the Suntour appears to do more (or less, when it comes to bouncing). I've actually also seen a number of videos comparing the Suntour to almost exactly the same seatposts as the zoom, the Suntour is always recommended quite a bit more. Considering the bike currently has a pretty nice, super lightweight Easton EC70 seatpost... if I'm gonna replace it, it's gotta be worth it. The Suntour is 3-4 time the weight, tho still not that bad, and if the reviews are accurate, should be a pretty solid suspension seat.

ebike11, I'm definitely interested in that as well. In about a week should have this build complete or very close to, and currently the bike is a single speed mountain bike... definitely hoping it'll work without a derailleur, don;t currently have one.

progrock said:

Skaiwerd, I appreciate the recommendation, tho the Suntour seatpost I'm looking at definitely seems to be superior. I've seen quite the number of $20-30 seatposts like that one, they seem to just bounce around... the Suntour appears to do more (or less, when it comes to bouncing). I've actually also seen a number of videos comparing the Suntour to almost exactly the same seatposts as the zoom, the Suntour is always recommended quite a bit more. Considering the bike currently has a pretty nice, super lightweight Easton EC70 seatpost... if I'm gonna replace it, it's gotta be worth it. The Suntour is 3-4 time the weight, tho still not that bad, and if the reviews are accurate, should be a pretty solid suspension seat.

ebike11, I'm definitely interested in that as well. In about a week should have this build complete or very close to, and currently the bike is a single speed mountain bike... definitely hoping it'll work without a derailleur, don;t currently have one.

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Ok let us know what you do. It would be nice to get rid of the whole rear derailleur and have a clean look with single speed bmx chain..but it would have to be fairly tight without a derailleur, so im wondering the side effects of doing that

Can I use my Cyclone controller for a direct drive motor?

The reason I ask is because one Sunwin controller is 63V and the second is a 84V, while the Cyclone can do 36V on up to 84V, and I'd really like to use 36V on my direct drive, plus the throttle with its display gives me an idea of how much distance I got left in the juice packets.

ebike11, thanks for bringing my attention to this... my original plan was to just try it out and see how things (of course trying somewhat to be careful).... but now I'm considering the potential issues here with a single speed having so much power, definitely a big difference over just pedaling. I'm thinking I might at least get a pair of chain tugs before I start testing with nothing at all. Never needed chain tugs on any of my fixed gears... but a single speed with a 3000w mid drive motor... probably not a bad idea. I'm hoping they will do the trick... I don't think I want to run a chain tensioner unless I absolutely have to.

Anyone else have experience with this?.... ideally experience with a cyclone or any mid drive with a single speed with track ends/dropouts?

Of course I have Chris King fun bolts on my rear wheel... gotta see if I can find chain tugs that will work with them... or at least ones I can modify to work with them. Anyone familiar with these?

What is the outer diameter of the freewheel adapter that is made to work with the 20mm shaft?

So I opened up the motor today to take a look since I'm having trouble getting this thing running on a powervelocity sensorless*. First, it really stinks so do this with caution. I checked the gearbox and reassembled before proceeding to the motor section. The gearbox seemed to be doing just fine.

When inside I was shocked to find weld spatter on the inside of the case. I was able to knock some of it off and remove just by pressing a finger. This is not the kind of thing you want inside a motor with tiny clearances and thinly insulated coils that spins at high speed.

Wasn't sure what to think about the rotor assy. Mine was all rusty. Overall my impression of the motor is that this thing is made for total bottom dollar and it is very low quality!

*all 3 forward phase combos are rough and none has more power than the other. I guess I have some shorted magnet wire??!

flat tire - Very interesting what you have found, I will have to crack open mine one day and take a peek inside. For right now though its running good, just on one speed at the moment. I am still have very mixed feelings about my cyclone, it climbs, from a stand still, slowly up steep hills real well, nothing a direct drive could do or atleast nothing my 3kw motor can do on sunwin controller.

I know one thing for a fact though, whether its the noise from a trapezoidal waveform controller or the gears purring from a geared motor, dogs bark and children always look and people can hear me coming up from behind them. I am sold on Sinewave controllers and Direct Drive motors!

Be super sweet to have a direct drive mid drive setup!

Did you take pics of the inside?

markz said:

I know one thing for a fact though, whether its the noise from a trapezoidal waveform controller or the gears purring from a geared motor,

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Don't forget the chain primary off of a very small and unsmooth 13t or 14t drive sprocket. That's probably the main source of unusual noise.

I notice that my BBS02 only makes identifiable noise when it's singing at the upper end of its RPM range. Even then, it's pretty quiet; but when I'm pedaling along at 90 RPM with PAS, it's silent.

I think it's only a matter of time before we have direct drive bottom bracket motors to choose from, but they won't be backwards compatible with normal bike frames.

So, waiting for a Phil Wood bottom bracket tool to get delivered so I can move on with this build... got bored... opened up my Stock 40A Bluetooth controller. Been trying to find photos/descriptions of other people with the same/similar controller who have opened them to compare... while I would have expected them to all be very close to the same (referring to stock controllers for the Cyclone 3000w specifically). Anyway, it's probably no surprise that it's a 12 FET controller... but somewhat of a surprise, the MOSFETs at least appear to be better than I was expecting. But, I don't know what brands are good/shit... etc. BUT if the data sheet is accurate (and I'm not missing something) these aren't bad. They are Si-Tech S10H16R (http://www.si-tech-semi.com/data/DownLoadFile/S10H16R.pdf) ... 150V 104A according to the spec sheet.

So are these the standard ones everyone with stock controllers have?... are they indeed not half bad, I see a lot of people talking about IRFB4115 FETs, which these appear to be pretty comparable, even with some higher claimed specs. Of course for all I know Si Tech could be a crapppy manufacturer thats claiming values that are not true on their data sheet.... but I would think they would have to be pretty close to accurate (given, even if the specs are good, they could still be badly made, etc).

I was originally considering trying out the shunt mod by either adding some solder to the shunt, or by soldering in an additional wire across... but at least for the time being, I don't think I'll be doing that. Are there other mods that are highly recommended?... I've seen people flipping the board over and adding a wire/conductor across the main traces on the board... that seems like a mod that if done right, theoretically shouldn't have much of a down side.

Also, I notice there's what I assume is a thermal compound on the plate the FETs are attached to. Is it common for people to add/replace this with some higher performing thermal compound?

And damn it... just my luck... I already have 2 sets of JST SM 2.5 connectors, ranging from 2-5 pin, when I need a 6 pin if I'm going to add a Cycle Analyst connector to this controller.

Unless you can program the controller you won't be able to adjust the phase amp ratio or toggle soft start so keep that in mind when working with it.

Yes the mosfets are ok. Probably the strong point of the controller. The worst component is the caps, they are all garbage quality but this probably won't cause you any issues for the time being.

Someone also asked if the thing will run a hubmotor, sure it will.

As far as "unless you can program the controller"... it is the bluetooth programmable model, or are you referring to a different kind of programming that just being able to change the settings via bluetooth.

I suppose the caps could either be replaced in the near future, or if/when they blow, assuming they don't take anything else out with them, changed then.

Postby flat tire » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:37 pm

I wouldn't get the Kelly. The included throttle is also total garbage. I use a Domino, other acceptable quality throttles can be found from ev motos on ebay like the zero, alta, brammo, et al.

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Which throttle does it come with ? Cyclone Taiwan normally supplies the ORO throttle which I think is probably one of the oldest and most reliably cyclone throttles? never heard of anyone having issues with them or is it another type ?

Also the issue with the throttle may have more to do with the controller you use and not the throttle ! and the domino maybe a bandaid fix to ur cheap chinese controller. The Kelly controller has throttle mapping, so you can tune the response to the throttle output, unlike the cheap chinese controllers. The domino is a crappy resistive throttle unlike the more stable and reliable hall sensor type Oro's. The original cheapest and oldest throttles relied on resistance before hall sensor replaced them due to reliability improvement.

I think AFT have been using the Kelly controllers with the C3000w for some time now ?see here http://www.aft-ebike.com/c3000w.html so not sure what problem you are having with them ?

No, you are completely incorrect. The build quality, accuracy and precision of the Domino (and some other legit EV) throttles is way above and beyond the cheap throttles. It's not that the cheap throttles don't work, it's just that they're crap quality and not that precise. Do you want to have junk for one of the most important interfaces between you and your bike? Using that $2 junk for a critical control is completely unacceptable in my book. Also I use the CA v3 to remap my throttles.

I still have the motor open and will take some pictures.

Well, I finally got my phil wood bottom bracket tool and got the current BB off the bike (surprisingly it did not take too much force... totally could have 3d printed the tool and had still managed to get it off... luckily while still overpriced, the tool wasn't crazy overpriced). Now I just want to clean out the bikes BB, wish I had a better brush on hand for that, but hopefully some rags and degreaser will do the trick.

My spot welder should also be arriving tomorrow... and got the LIPO to run it off of yesterday... sadly I delayed ordering a LIPO charger till yesterday, so got a couple of days to wait for that.

I've also decided to go with a BMS for this pack. Sadly took a bit to get an order setup with Bestechpower (was the only company I could find that was recommended for a quality BMS... otherwise it seemed like all I could do was gamble on essentially a brand-less cheap chinese BMS, and hope that it would work well. Was hoping to get an advanced adjustable BMS from bestechpower, but they are not currently in stock... though are supposed to be next month, so maybe I'll try to get some for my next build.

I'm also seeing if I can find a small voltage meter to mount on the battery pack, as a simple, additional way to check the overall voltage (would love to add cell loggers, to track each parallel groups voltage, if I could find a 10s or even better 20s one... b ut I don't plan to add 4 to a single small 20s pack). I've found some really cheap voltage meters (literally < $1) on aliexpress that will read 0-100v... BUT they require a power source under 30v to run... and what I'm looking for is something small/simple (ideally cheap) that will work off of the batteries voltage. Anyone familiar with anything that'll do the job?

Next up will be ordering a charger for this pack.... I think i'm just going to bite the bullet and order a Cycle Satiotor. I can't find anything else comparable to it... and if I cheap out now and get a shittier charger... I'm pretty sure I'll be getting the Satiotor soon enough... so I think I might as well just get it now (just hope a better option doesn't come out immediately after). Also gonna order a Cycle Analyst V3 while I am at it... seems to be the best option for a display/control for this setup.

All in all, almost have everything I need, and got the bike pretty close to ready for everything. Hopefully in a week or two I'll have a kick ass ebike to ride, looking forward to it.

My cyclone came with a throttle with a voltage display and key. I just snipped off the connector am currently using on a different then stock controller. The reason is because the cont does not have a lvc, which isnt the best ideal scenerio.

I've also been thinking of those voltage RC alarm devices, which can produce a sound when it reaches a preset voltage. They arent the loudest and my hearing is not the best.

I've been getting ready to finally bite the bullet and grab a Cycle Analyst v3 and a Cycle Satiator (Though I might also try to build my own variable voltage charger... but still think I'll be getting the satiator as well... pricey, but seems like the best option by far, still don't understand why there aren't a dozen chinese copies of it, or at least of a variable voltage charger)

While on ebikes.ca, I saw their new "Universal T-Lever Throttle"... which seems extremely basic... but I really like the minimal design. And considering I'll be getting a Cycle Analyst v3 with it, and I can only assume the best way to wire a throttle would be through the CA, seems like it could be a pretty nice throttle. It's also pretty damn low key, would barely notice it was even there, and obviously takes up very little handlebar space... I'm really digging it, and for $15, pretty cheap.

Anyone using it now?

Also just ran into the Phaserunner controller... aside from it not being serviceable (hopefully build quality is high enough)... but the Voltage and Current is not bad at all... and holy shit is that thing small, and super clean. Again if you're running a CA, shows you don't need 100 wires sticking out of your controller. Not sure how "good" it actually is... but looks pretty damn impressive to me.

Pick up there cruise control switch too, if they sell it. I am going to install one because I go too slow for the controller to kick in the cruise function.

Planning to mod my stock cyclone controller tomorrow to add a 6pin Cycle Analyst plug... planning to do this based on the HOW TO on ebikeschool.com (http://www.ebikeschool.com/add-cycle-analyst-connector-controller/). As far as I can tell, as long as I do the mod correctly, the controller would have the 6 pin plug to work with the CA v3 Direct Plug version (technically getting the DPS version, with the speedometer pickup), and the Cycle Analyst should be FULLY functional, including the limiting features, correct? (While I don't think I'll be using the limiting features myself, but I like the idea of having them as an option if I let someone test ride the bike, and feel that they shouldn't do so at full power)

Also, any reason why that HOW TO is not a good idea to follow (ie. anything they may have gotten wrong?)... I'm assuming it's pretty accurate, obviously my controller is setup slightly different than the one in the HOW TO, but as far as finding the right places to solder the wire, that will be easy enough (and will be double checking the connection points with a multimeter to confirm they are the correct wire points).

The only real complication I am foreseeing right now is getting th 6 wires out of the controller with the messy/large bundle that is already there (the controller in the HOW TO definitely makes me jealous in that regard, with the individual wire holes it has, especially considering it has extras). As you guys probably know, this controller has A LOT of wires, and not much additional room. I'm tempted to see if there are any wires I don't need, and could either remove, or simply tuck inside the controller, to make space. I'm not currently planning on running PAS, though I suppose I could for some reason decide I want it later on (BUT, if I'm not mistaken, since I'll be running a CA v3... couldn't I, and probably wouldn't I, wire a pedal assist to the CA instead of directly to my controller?).... which is actually a side question I had, I'm not sure what Pedal Assist works well with the Cyclone kit (I see to remember some small print somewhere talking about 1 that didn't), but with the Cycle Analyst, would I jsut be able to get any PAS that worked with that, and essentially not have to be concerned with my controller supporting the PAS?

My used battery pack when new would have been 12.8Ah new at 60V, I did the trip simulator, exact everything, it states I should be using up 8Ah. My 12.8Ah pack is now only 8Ah. I would have assumed since buying it used, that the pack would have been at 10 or 11Ah, but its not.

I plan to buy 3Ah or 3.3Ah cans from NKON. It will give me a smaller pack then the 1.6Ah used cans I currently have, actually it will be exactly half the size. I can then track the Ah accurately. I'd say all I need is about a 10Ah pack, at 48V, 13S by 3P, so 40 cans costing $120.

I have yet to fit the cyclone on the bike yet... but wanted to ask what your guys opinion is on mounting inside the triangle?

Of course I know many frames simply won't fit the motor there, but if you have the room, seems like it would be a preferable spot for the most part. I would think the motor is better protected, also running wires from the battery would be shorter/easier to hide. But I'm guess there are also some negatives... while it would still be mounted pretty low, it would be higher than it would if mounted below the triangle... so slightly raising your center of gravity. I've also hear you can't run additional chainrings or front derailleur, but that's not a concern of mine, had no plans of either.

So, if it'll fit, think it's a good idea to mount it in the triangle?

You could run 2 gears up front, just need to have the proper "capacity" Cyclone TW website sells 3 gears, 1 for motor, 2 gears. Be nice to have 52T for high speeds when the rear is in a small cog then have a (40T or smaller) for mountain climbing very steep hills.

That 90 tooth from cyclone-tw.com has me curious. Not using a front derailleur with that. Anyone know what that would be used for. Insane high speed perhaps.