"Edge" DD hubmotor, 1500W, 35mm, Al core

I am having problems getting my Cycle Analyst V3 to give me a MPH readout. I can easily get readouts for my battery usage, voltage, etc. When it comes to MPH there is never a readout when riding or a total MPH for trip length. I am using the following that I purchased from LA Ebike and Lunacycle a few months ago:

Edge 1500W Motor
18 Fet Sinewave Controller
52V 24Ah Triangle Battery

All other functions seem to work correctly, (i.e. L/M/H power settings, ebrakes, throttle). I just can't tell how fast I am going.

Is it possible that the controller is setup incorrectly? I seem to remember reading earlier in this thread where another user was having issue with the MPH readout as well.

I'm sure it is probably something simple I haven't setup correctly in the Cycle Analyst options as everything else seem to function properly.

*EDIT - I did not setup or utilize the PAS sensor on the bicycle. When I purchased this I was told it was not necessary in order to use the Cycle Analyst v3 and have complete functionality otherwise.
 
casuarinatree said:
I am having problems getting my Cycle Analyst V3 to give me a MPH readout. I can easily get readouts for my battery usage, voltage, etc. When it comes to MPH there is never a readout when riding or a total MPH for trip length. I am using the following that I purchased from LA Ebike and Lunacycle a few months ago:

Edge 1500W Motor
18 Fet Sinewave Controller
52V 24Ah Triangle Battery

All other functions seem to work correctly, (i.e. L/M/H power settings, ebrakes, throttle). I just can't tell how fast I am going.

Is it possible that the controller is setup incorrectly? I seem to remember reading earlier in this thread where another user was having issue with the MPH readout as well.

I'm sure it is probably something simple I haven't setup correctly in the Cycle Analyst options as everything else seem to function properly.

*EDIT - I did not setup or utilize the PAS sensor on the bicycle. When I purchased this I was told it was not necessary in order to use the Cycle Analyst v3 and have complete functionality otherwise.

I was the one that had a problem with speed readout showing up. It worked fine when I got the setup and then after awhile it quit working. Oddly enough, using a 48v battery it worked fine. I never was able to figure out what the problem was, I just used it at 48v until I burned out the halls (my fault).
I really think it has to do with a short somewhere. I am now using a controller from PowerVelocity.com on a different motor and it is a high quality controller. You might try that. Good luck!
 
Thanks for that feedback @Trailblazer. I'm not certain why I don't get the readout but I may just give another controller a try.
 
I Love the edge DD Hub Motor
Thank you Spinning Magnets
 

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You are very welcome. I see it looks like you mounted it in a 20-inch rim...even better! Mine is in a 19-inch moped rim, so my rear wheel is very similar to a 24-inch bicycle rim.
 
I think that these motors are awesome
I have 3 of them now
A 20 inch for the trike
a26 inch for the mountain bike
and a extra one for a demo and to have in stock also to take to trade shows
so far I have done 4 conversions for customers last summer they love them
looking forward to 2018 summer going to try to make it a full time business
I am running 18 fet 8000w controllers on all of them
I am thinking of running 2 52v 24ah 50 amp bms batteries together on the trike just to see what it does
It would be easy to take one of the batteries out of the mountain bike and slide it in the other bag on the trike
I thought of this after I read your article on batteries you are a great influence
 

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Interesting dyno! What are you using for torque measurement?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
It is a home made rig that I don't use much any more
I own a motorcycle shop and it is made up from stuff laying around the shop
the stand is a modified motorcycle wheel building stand heavy steel
it is used now for a working display stand and a place to test run new motors and controllers.
to create a load I used a indoor bicycle fluid trainer stand good for up to 3 maybe 4 hp
to get the numbers I use a CA and a gizmo called a VEYPOR Performance Intelligence unit
The VEYPOR is more crazy than the CA we used it on our motorcycles and go kart, mini bike builds
what it does is turn the drive wheel into a dyno roller and it gives you values like hp and torque
zero to whet ever speeds in seconds, 1/4 mile times and a whole lot of Hot Rod Bs like that
along with the CA you get all of the electric info, together it is something to do over a long cold wet winter
sit and watch the wheel spin and look at the numbers
the very cool thing about the electric is no noise and you don't have to vent any exhaust
spinning up a 60 hp super moto motor gets real loud.
 
Is their any one out their running this motor on a trike
 

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Where are you guys buying this motor these days? Mine from laebikes was laced using parts that were simply not up to snuff and I broke several spokes.
 
I get my motors and controllers from Alan at electric race technologies and his comes with a temp sensor, LA ebikes does not he is a straight up dude and always comes through
 
Would like to pose a question If I may
How do you other edge heads think the Little motor would hold up
with a 72v 26ah 100a max battery supplying the juice.
I am think about that or hooking my 2 52v 24ah 50 maps max batteries together
Trying to figure out which would be the best way to go
I am going to keep the 20 inch wheel on the trike I really like the torque
and all I really am looking for is the 0 to 30 mph real quick like
and if a little smoke would start to roll off the back tire while I was doing that
it would be Awesome
Thankx in advance for any thoughts.
 
Green Werks said:
I get my motors and controllers from Alan at electric race technologies and his comes with a temp sensor, LA ebikes does not he is a straight up dude and always comes through

Thanks very much. Yeah, I have traded emails with Alan and he seems like a guy to buy from. Thanks for the validation!
 
Green Werks - Do a search and you will find lots of people spitting out lots of watts. Like user neptronix.
The Leaf is basically the same as the edge.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=90270&p=1316411&hilit=Leaf#p1316411
For example, i run a 1.5kw rated leaf ( more like 2000w rated actual ) at a peak of 4000W, but the 4000W only happens when accelerating or climbing a hill, otherwise i'm cruising at 1000-2500W or less. A pack like yours would handle that.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=66489&p=1296407&hilit=Leaf#p1296407
When i showed you folks what this motor was capable of at 6000W in the first pages, i had the 12 gauge wiring installed. The wires were not a heat bottleneck and were adequate for the ~80A i was pushing.
 
I am a fan of the Leafbike 1500W, but the reason it is lighter than the Edge 1500W is because it has the thin steel stator support, as opposed to the thicker aluminum stator-support in the Edge (which acts as a heat-sponge). Although both would benefit from adding Ferro-Fluid, the Leafbike definitely needs it to access its full potential.
 
Thank you for all the feed back
I guess what I will try first since I have everything here except the connector for hooking up the two batteries together
is to run my two luna 52v 24ah 50 amp continuous BMS batteries together
If i'am seeing this right it should provide 52v 48ah and 100 amps does this sound right

The two 52v battery configuration will have 196 cells which to my thinking should have little to no sag running it at 70 amps through the CA
A 72v battery 20s 7p has 140 cells and will deliver 100 amps

Both set ups will deliver 100 amps the difference is a 72v puts out 72v and 26ah and the two 52v together puts out 52v but has 48ah
Is my thinking correct on this
Thankx in advance.
 
spinningmagnets said:
I am a fan of the Leafbike 1500W, but the reason it is lighter than the Edge 1500W is because it has the thin steel stator support, as opposed to the thicker aluminum stator-support in the Edge (which acts as a heat-sponge). Although both would benefit from adding Ferro-Fluid, the Leafbike definitely needs it to access its full potential.

Take a closer look to the stators. The one from the Leaf has a larger diameter on the inside, so the iron core has lower mass.
I don't know the reason why manufacturers do this, but one might be the liability to breaking the lams during assembling.
Thats why motors like Cro or MXUS V1 with 0,5mm lams usually have lower weight as V2 version of such with the thinner lams, but not so with the Leaf :)

edit
leaf: http://neptronix.org/forumpics/leafmotor_11.jpg

edge:https://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=200968&mode=view
 
Dudes thankx for all the love and feedback but I think that I'm going to pussy out
and not put my 2 52v batteries together and just give alan a $1100.00 bucks
and buy one of his 72v 26ah 100a continuous batteries and call it a day
and the little Edge will sing
 
Greetings Dudes
well I solved my Battery dilemma
I decided to get a 72v 30ah 30Q cell battery
I an going to run it at 60 amps 4000w and see what the little edge will do
with that
I bought my battery from Berent at West Coast Electric Cycles
He is a straight up guy and has a lot of nice performance products
His customer service is all the way their
I look forward to getting the new battery
any of you dudes running a set up like this and if so what do you think of it
 
I haven't run mine that hard, but from reading and studying...I think 72V / 4000W will be a good match. I will be watching with interest. The true limit is...how hard and how often you give it max amps...there is a heat-gain / heat-shed ratio...
 
Maybe look into added more mass on the inside for heat shedding capability.
Maybe aluminum blocks, not sure how you would connect them tho
 
The setup that I run now it a 52v 24ah ga cell the ca is set to 55a and 3000w
I have this set up on a mountain bike and a trike and they both will do over 50 mile range
nothing is getting hot so far climbing hills I usually hit 2600 w I have never seen 3000w on the CA
My thoughts behind the 72v 30 ah on the trike is to get a 100 mile range
 
Direct Drive (DD) hubmotors have a bad reputation on hills from years ago when a lot of new ebikers bought a high-RPM cheap yescomusa hub kit, put it in a large diameter wheel, and fed it low watts to save the cost on the battery. The yescomusa has the cheaper/thicker laminations, so it is not as efficient (lots of battery watts converted to heat instead of power), and the power cables had to be thin enough to pass through the hollow axle.

The Yescomusa remains a useful option on flat land and 48V X 25A = 1200W. I have been dirt-poor in the past (however, no mullet), so I empathize with builders on a tight budget.

Our friend Luke/LFP is at the other far end of the spectrum. He is a fan of a very large DD hubmotor and using "too many" watts. The simplicity of the DD hub is at the core of its reliability, if...used within its limits.

The Crystalyte 35mm-wide stator series was the hot rod around here just a decade ago. Back then, it had the thicker 0.50mm laminations (less efficiency/more heat produced per applied watt), and the axles were adequate for the advertised 1500W, but...throw in 3000W and heavy regen? the axles broke. Plus, the thin motor phase wires got hot at 3000W. The newer Crystalytes are 'better', but...

If you want something a little lighter and a little cheaper, get the newest Crystalyte or the latest Leafbike 35mm motor. Nothing wrong with them. If you do get them, consider adding oil-cooling (find the ES thread, its worth it), or Ferro-Fluid.

The Edge has the thinner laminations (battery watts get converted into less heat), and thicker motor phase wires, and most importantly...the cast aluminum stator support that acts as a heat sponge. No moving parts, no leaks (like adding oil-cooling), and never needs to be topped-off once a year (like Ferro-Fluid, although...I did add FF to my Edge motor).

When you accelerate from a stop, there is a burst of amp-flow to get you going. Then...as you cruise along at 30-MPH+, the amp-draw goes down to the level that is just barely needed to maintain speed. Less than half of the peak amps drawn. Consider this...how much time are you accelerating? How much time are you in "cruise mode"? If you have enough motor and also enough battery...the acceleration phase lasts about four seconds (*insert smile here).

Then, you cruise along until you hit a red light...maybe a minute later? During those first four seconds, the motor is getting hot from high amps, and then?...during the following minute, it is slowly shedding it's heat to the outside air through its aluminum sideplates. That is not an ideal heat-flow path, but if you add the aluminum mass of the Edge stator support, some thermodynamic black-magic occurs.

I added FF..."just because". That being said...right now I "only" use 52V X 45A =2300W, and the damn thing doesn't even get warm. How much of that is the aluminum "heat sponge", and how much of it is the FF? I don't know.

Luke and "John in CR" have shown that...if you have a big enough motor (copper mass), and you apply enough watts (max volts + amps dependent on heat), a DD hub can conquer hills, and do it reliably. If the Edge 35mm wide stator gets hot on your hills running your watts, go to more watts, or upgrade to more copper mass by swapping to the MXUS 45mm wide stator motors.

If the MXUS 45mm motor is getting hot on your runs, upgrade to the QS 205 50H with the 50mm wide stator and deeper slots to allow more copper wire wraps.

Is 4000W the "true" limit of the Edge? That depends on the diameter of the wheel (smaller is better), and how often you actually apply 4000W (get a temp gauge, limit motor interior to 140F / 60C).
 
Luke has shown that...if you have a big enough motor (copper mass), and you apply enough watts (max volts + amps dependent on heat), a DD hub can conquer hills, and do it reliably. If the Edge 35mm wide stator gets hot on your hills running your watts, go to more watts, or upgrade to more copper mass by swapping to the MXUS 45mm wide stator motors.

If the MXUS 45mm motor is getting hot on your runs, upgrade to the QS 205 50H with the 50mm wide stator and deeper slots to allow more copper wire wraps.

Is 4000W the "true" limit of the Edge? That depends on the diameter of the wheel (smaller is better), and how often you actually apply 4000W (get a temp gauge, limit motor interior to 140F / 60C).


I have 3 of the edge set up's now one on my demo trike and one on my mountain bike demo and the third one is for stock
climbing hills has never been a problem with a 26 inch wheel on the bike and a 20 inch on the trike
they both have 18 fet controllers all my set up's have temp sensors hooked up to CA's and they just don't get hot
I doubt if I will ever see 4000w even though that is where it will be set at.
with the 52v battery I see 2600w climbing a hill but that is about it
as far as acceleration that happens very quick and I am at cruse the majority of the time
the reason for the new 72v battery is to see if I can get a 100 mile range
I am totally happy with the power of the 52v 24ah battery I am curious to see the difference between the GA cells and the 30Q cells
and the 72v will give it more top speed which I don't need at all but that is just what it is
As always thanks for your input Ron
 
Update:
well it has been a while since I have done anything with the edge wile waiting on the battery
It came in yesterday I bought it from WCEC Barent what a great guy really on top of his game
always there when you need him I will be a customer for life now to the meat and potatoes
the battery is a 20s 10 p with 30Q cells and a 100a bms
the controller is a 100v 100a 18 fet
everything is set up at 70amps and 6000w
the trike has a 20 inch BMX rear wheel
the first test ride was more that I expected it is a rocket 0 to 30 mph and then I lift
looking at the CA it is reading 70 amps and it hit 6000w quick
the battery only sagged 4 volts during this acceleration
I believe I will achieved my goal of a 100 mile range at 15mph
looking forward to doing some long distance runs when the weather breaks
 
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