My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

docnjoj said:

My wife has the Ebikekit MXUS on her front 20" wheel for her trike and it significantly out pulls my rear Q100H. It is also a lot noisier.
otherDoc

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yep, agreed the MXUS is a noisy geared-hub motor compared to the Bafang motors I've used for mid-drive duties. But the tini liddle MUXUS out-pulls any DD motor barring the 2K and up systems.
I've personally possess three MXUS motors of the 214-size and have been happy with their performance.
...as to their noise, I wear noise-cancelling headsets for other reasons besides the motor which cancels out the noise of the MXUS for the most part. And I've since replaced all MXUS motors with DD motors to gain motor brake capability. Imay have destroyed the gears in two of them do to old age (of the motor, I'm also running on stripped gears meself) and recently because of applying too much power to the motor (22A@63V is where the motor self-destructs)
And really, compared to a Harley with straight pipes there is nothing to compare, heh.
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I really need to get an LCD3 for the KT36 controller, as it has settings enabled I don't want, such as cruise.
I thought perhaps I wouldn't need the LCD3 since regen was enabled, but other settings bother me too much to ignore.

It will be quite some time for me to determine the power usage of the new front motor, mainly because weather conditions swamps all other notions of efficiency with MPdPM.

Roger that regarding internally stripped gears. At least I still have my teeth.
otherDoc

docnjoj said:

Roger that regarding internally stripped gears. At least I still have my teeth.
otherDoc

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whereas I have few teeth.
It's not that I didn't brush/floss. I wore out the enamel on my teeth before 50y, but I was also born well before fluoride was added to water supplies. My sister (born after fluoride) still has her teeth and my younger brother had his but my older brother suffered the same fate as I, except he can use dentures while mememe, having 3 sets made and rejected, can't.
Maybe I'm suggesting flouride treatment is [marthe s.]"a good thing"[/martha s.] or maybe not.
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I ordered a LCD3 panel some time ago, but shipping by slow boat means it will arrive sometime during December (est. 2 to 22 Dec).
The motor is far more aggressive using a 22A square wave controller over the KT36 26A sine wave thingy, so I'm guessing the KT36's various settings are needing different settings from what they currently is. Still, the mini geared hub motor had more pull on grades.
Average power use for going shopping shows 20W, a wash, and the DD motor gives 20MPH with a 12S battery.
3MPH faster than the mini, whew!
However, the DD struggles up any grade...

ddk said:

Maybe I'm suggesting flouride treatment is [marthe s.]"a good thing"[/martha s.] or maybe not.

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Most of mine have damage; probably lost a third completely (except the shards of edges still in the gums for the molars) (and another one going now; at least the heavy garlic/vitaminC over a couple weeks stopped the infection). I drank the flouride-water and it didn't seem to help me, but my family has generally bad teeth anyway.

The motor is far more aggressive using a 22A square wave controller over the KT36 26A sine wave thingy, so I'm guessing the KT36's various settings are needing different settings from what they currently is. Still, the mini geared hub motor had more pull on grades.
Average power use for going shopping shows 20W, a wash, and the DD motor gives 20MPH with a 12S battery.
3MPH faster than the mini, whew!
However, the DD struggles up any grade...

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Sounds like the DD needs more current...or it's just not a wide-enough stator/magnets inside to give the torque needed at the current it's already got.

(and phase current is different from battery current, though usually more battery current also gives more phase current).

amberwolf said:

ddk said:

Maybe I'm suggesting flouride treatment is [marthe s.]"a good thing"[/martha s.] or maybe not.

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Most of mine have damage; probably lost a third completely (except the shards of edges still in the gums for the molars) (and another one going now; at least the heavy garlic/vitaminC over a couple weeks stopped the infection). I drank the flouride-water and it didn't seem to help me, but my family has generally bad teeth anyway.

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...as does mine, and that's why I qualified my statement with "or maybe not."

...
However, the DD struggles up any grade...

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amberwolf said:

Sounds like the DD needs more current...or it's just not a wide-enough stator/magnets inside to give the torque needed at the current it's already got.

(and phase current is different from battery current, though usually more battery current also gives more phase current).

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I do think it's interesting that the DD motor reacted a bit stronger while being controlled by the 22A square wave controller over the 26A sine wave one.
The anticipated LCD3 should tell me why once it arrives, since I currently have no other way to check the sine wave controller's settings and really, because the rainy season has started here and I find myself less tolerant of working outside (even if it's inside the workshop) while it's raining.
(New this year: The Big Chill)
...and since I donut has to do anything if I uncomfortable, I don't.... advantages of retirement.

Got the LCD3!
Connected it up and powered up the system and ended up having to mount the panel and the switches.
After doing so, the fog lowered and The Big Chill prevented me from accomplishing anything else (which I suspected might happen and why I mounted the panel in loo of unplugging it after I finished with the setup)

Next opportunity will be on Friday (maybe)

WOW! That is a big box controller!
otherDoc

docnjoj said:

WOW! That is a big box controller!
otherDoc

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yep... these KT controllers use a BIG (and quite empty) box. About twice the size of the infinitron 6 fet thingies.
The only thing good about the box is it has a lid, making disassembly and reassembly a piece of cake (with extra frosting) compared to the various 22A and 30A controllers I have, now sitting on a shelf.
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I managed to be warm enough to work on the trike and even made a shopping trip. As I suspected, the controller really needs the LCD panel. The motor now reacts how I thought it should, given the 26A rating.
Haven't figured out how to set regen or the fact I use 12S (44V) battery packs. The display shows the battery being half-empty (or half-full, your choice, mine is usually along the lines of "how much?")

Display indicated 50kph, but then I remembered I haven't set the wheel size, where the packaging indicated it was preset to a 26" wheel... and I has a 16 incher. Wheel, that is...

So, to set the regen on the new controller I had to cruise Utube... which was hilarious, as the usual spokes person would say "refer to your manual" whereas MY manual mentions nothing about parameter settings.
Finally someone mentioned "C13" being the regen/ebrake parameter, qualifying with "refer to the manual" for settings. Hilarious.

Same with motor current and other, important settings that my manual doesn't even mention.
But hack I will and now the motor no longer bogs down on any grade, the regen is set to its' strongest setting and I can read my battery voltage from the panel (as I can just look down at the battery to read its' voltage and Watts consumed, this last panel reading is redundant to my needs)
Since I AM lazy I will use the panel in loo of having to mount an on/off switch for the controller.

I think you want this manual.

https://bmsbattery.com/index.php?controller=attachment&id_attachment=5

wturber said:

I think you want this manual.

https://bmsbattery.com/index.php?controller=attachment&id_attachment=5

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thanks! Here has a picture of gulls, which was funny as a loon kept calling out but the only birds I saw was these gulls, cruising around the harbor. Too be added after I figure out the problems


yep, could have looked for the manual, but I currently lack a computer in the workshop so having a file with no printer is kinda... discouraging... and hacking around things is what I likes to do :lol: .
If I sound like I'm complaining about something,well, I'm a cranky old man who's only enjoyment is complaining about ever lil' thing
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notes about the controller (KT36):
- Although I turned off the cruise control it keeps turning back on upon power up, and I HATE how it works!
- The strongest setting for regen is actually a bit too strong, taking this heavy trike to a (almost) complete stop down a 25% grade. I reset it from "5" to "4".
- Also reported by other users, the motor makes a weird grumbling sound as it accelerates from a stop... almost like the sound of the grumbling cranky old man operator! I'm having issues trying to upload pictures from a flash drive... hmmmm

Roger that to being grumpy and old!
otherDoc

docnjoj said:

Roger that to being grumpy and old!
otherDoc

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[thumbsup][thumbsup/]
Every time I hit regen initially there's a "clunk" from the front. Investigating the issue shows nothing external could be causing the sound, so Imma just gonna assume it's the motor itself, going "clunk"... a clunky issue indeed!
less see if the image issue is fixed:


3 out of five... this makes no sense, as the files all from the same source!

Is your motor mounted on the front? If so, I wonder if the axle is secure in the dropouts and torque arms. You could be hearing the motor shift as regen is applied. I'd say that that would be "not good." If there is no motor in the front, then I have no clue about the noise.

Yeah, it's in the front fork:



The clamp looks good, but it doesn't take much movement (rocking) to make a thunk.

It's also possible but unlikely that the axle on one side is cracked thru and so it's rocking on that side--this would probably result in other problems you'd notice, like rim brake alignment issues, etc. (but it can happen; it did to my X5304's axle though that's after unknown years of use (or abuse) before I got it, plus my own abuse of it on the trike).

Or perhaps the fork's steerer is not tightly seated between the bearings in the headset? That would make the front "thunk" (it does that for me on my bike and trike when the headset problem occurs).

It could also be the windings on the stator core itself: If they are not tightly wound, they could "slam" around from the sudden change in magnetic force directions and amounts. This isn't very likely, but it is possible. I don't know what sound that would make, but I'd expect a grinding rather than a single thunk.

amberwolf said:

...
It could also be the windings on the stator core itself: If they are not tightly wound, they could "slam" around from the sudden change in magnetic force directions and amounts. This isn't very likely, but it is possible. I don't know what sound that would make, but I'd expect a grinding rather than a single thunk.

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Having ridden and fixed issues on bikes, trikes, scooters and motorcycles for about 60 years, let's just say I've experienced every front fork issue imagined. I investigated these possibilities several times now, and the telling argument is that there is -0- vibration felt in the handlebars when the sound is made. (more of a "thunk" than a "clunk")

Come to thunk of it (yep, j/k)
I've heard this sound once before in my life some 40 years ago, coming from the windings of snubber transformers used in a particular manufacturer's 1000W dimmers... also with no vibration felt!

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but the bigger issue is why the forum software rejects some image files for, what I can see as having no issues whatsoever, beings they came from the same camera, manipulated (resized) by the same software,and emanating from the same file folder.

wturber said:

Is your motor mounted on the front? If so, I wonder if the axle is secure in the dropouts and torque arms. You could be hearing the motor shift as regen is applied. I'd say that that would be "not good."

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It's difficult to get zero shift, esp. with regen. I have a rear wheel setup with a big torque bar, but no matter how much I tighten the axle nuts there's a little "clink" when I go from regen to power as the axle shifts a fraction of a degree (before the torque bar keeps it from shifting further.)

ddk said:

I've heard this sound once before in my life some 40 years ago, coming from the windings of snubber transformers used in a particular manufacturer's 1000W dimmers... also with no vibration felt!

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That's why i suggested it, cuz I've seen (heard) it happen on various wirewound magnetic stuffs.

but the bigger issue is why the forum software rejects some image files for, what I can see as having no issues whatsoever, beings they came from the same camera, manipulated (resized) by the same software,and emanating from the same file folder.

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If they're all the same dimensions, and below the image file size limits, I don't know why they'd be rejected either. I haven't uploaded much since the forum downgrade "upgrade" but if I see the issue I'll poke around with it till I find out why.

Or if you wanna email me the files that don't work along with a few that do work I can poke at them to find any differences. Just PM me for email address.

amberwolf said:

If they're all the same dimensions, and below the image file size limits, I don't know why they'd be rejected either. I haven't uploaded much since the forum downgrade "upgrade" but if I see the issue I'll poke around with it till I find out why.

Or if you wanna email me the files that don't work along with a few that do work I can poke at them to find any differences. Just PM me for email address.

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Nope... different sessions give different results, indicating it's a forum software issue and not my computer or internet server (We be talking picture loading issues here) This picture was one of the 'rejected' pictures from the same stuffs.
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amberwolf said:

...
That's why i suggested it, cuz I've seen (heard) it happen on various wirewound magnetic stuffs.

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Upon first inspection of the fork I knew that the sound emanated from the motor's loose windings and implied as much. BTW I've never heard loose windings making a 'grinding' sound because when energized, they basically slam against whatever they're gonna slam against.
I suppose I could have mentioned this in my first post but what's the profit in that? It's more fun and enlightening to discuss these things, even if the discussion is basically using wrong assumptions (What? Someones wrong on the internets?)
Anyways, since I tend to post nothing pertaining to ebikes at times, I'm somewhat embarrassed about posting all the lil' details when I do.

It's funny in a way that the same sound doesn't happen when using the motor as a motor, but that has to do with the ramp-up characteristics of a controller.

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billvon said:

wturber said:

Is your motor mounted on the front? If so, I wonder if the axle is secure in the dropouts and torque arms. You could be hearing the motor shift as regen is applied. I'd say that that would be "not good."

Click to expand...

It's difficult to get zero shift, esp. with regen. I have a rear wheel setup with a big torque bar, but no matter how much I tighten the axle nuts there's a little "clink" when I go from regen to power as the axle shifts a fraction of a degree (before the torque bar keeps it from shifting further.)

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It is certainly NOT impossible to get zero shift, even with regen.
I would seriously look into replacing any/all faulty components if I discerned any movement at all!
Investigate and find a solution... the story of my life, really.

amberwolf was kind enough to re-post my image of the modified fork in question.
You should be able to tell that this is NOT a bicycle fork, but more of a pedicab fork formed from a 2" tube, capable of supporting 1/2 ton load or more (baring what the wheel itself could support)
Oversized heavy-duty headset bearings included!
The dropouts are xbox HUGE (though not as huge as my other custom forks) thick and just large enough to do what we did, welding on the pinch clamps in loo of axle nuts.
There is no movement in the fork assembly, headset or threadless stem.

ddk said:

It is certainly NOT impossible to get zero shift, even with regen.

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Agreed; it's just difficult (which is one reason torque arms are so common.)

ddk said:

BTW I've never heard loose windings making a 'grinding' sound because when energized, they basically slam against whatever they're gonna slam against

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In the cases I've heard "grinding" in transformers and stuff it's because the windings have either AC or a pulsing DC applied, with repeatedly reversing magnetic fields moving them around.

Dunno if that would be the case in the motor itself, if it's a magnetically-caused thunk, but I would expect something like that.

Anyways, since I tend to post nothing pertaining to ebikes at times, I'm somewhat embarrassed about posting all the lil' details when I do.

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Whereas I probably post so many details most people blink a couple times, back up slowly, and close the browser tab.

It's funny in a way that the same sound doesn't happen when using the motor as a motor, but that has to do with the ramp-up characteristics of a controller.

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Probably (whereas braking is usually a much more sudden current change).

amberwolf said:

In the cases I've heard "grinding" in transformers and stuff it's because the windings have either AC or a pulsing DC applied, with repeatedly reversing magnetic fields moving them around.

Dunno if that would be the case in the motor itself, if it's a magnetically-caused thunk, but I would expect something like that.

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Yep, my mind went south for a moment there. (no offense to southerners) AC and loose windings equates to a "buzzing" or "humming" sound, dependent on the frequency of the AC (and with brushless hub motors... why some are noisier than others). AC/DC-actuated relays and such, makes a slamming sound that isn't completely coming from the contacts, but also from the windings, with the AC variety making a buzzing sound after the initial contact closures.

...but that was long ago, whereas I try very hard to not think about the past, since it includes scattered landmines and resultant debris.

I wouldn't wanna think about that either...the only "landmines" I've ever had to worry about were things that came from the non-head-end of various animals.


BTW, when I was redoing some stuff on my trike this past weekend, including the "reverse-gear" function, I realized that now that you are using a DD motor on the trike, you could setup a reverse-gear on yours as well, if you ever need it. (it can be pretty handy to have sometimes).

amberwolf said:

I wouldn't wanna think about that either...the only "landmines" I've ever had to worry about were things that came from the non-head-end of various animals.

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(very) loose associations = landmines where I'm still embarrassed by my incompetent reactions. Shame, regrets... I have none. Just embarrassment.
And I hates blushing.

BTW, when I was redoing some stuff on my trike this past weekend, including the "reverse-gear" function, I realized that now that you are using a DD motor on the trike, you could setup a reverse-gear on yours as well, if you ever need it. (it can be pretty handy to have sometimes).

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I used reverse on this trike, but after a couple of years I noticed two things:
1- hardly ever use reverse
2- when I did use the motor for reverse I lacked the same control over the trike if I had just fred flintstone'd the reverse.

Oh, and did you hear about the one where aliens of the extraterrestrial type probably exist?

So...
Finally figured out (my) problems with settings not sticking in the controller.
You'd think and old retired engineer-type like meself would remember that RT(F)M is always the best way to start a project, re-reading as required.
This became an issue once manuals provided were (usually) poorly translated from other languages to engrish, even getting to the point where I started to try to learn Japanese. But the poor Japanese have to deal with not just one written language, but three (or possibly more) completely different languages!
All of them used for tech stuff.
...and I have enough problems reading just the one written english tech stuff written by english-writing/speaking people.

But I digress, since this particular complaint doesn't apply to the manual linked to. (Thanks wturber)
There are some parameter settings in the controller that require one to press the i/o button for a few seconds to "save" that setting, and I previously failed to do so. But after re-reading the (F) manual I finally caught my error.
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I suppose I should have let Amberfella write about how to go about setting up a reverse just so the info is available in this thread but I kinda knew I didn't want to hang around the forum during the dreaded holidaze (yes, I AM the grinch)