## Electricals caracteristics of the X5305 hub motor HERE

### Electricals caracteristics of the X5305 hub motor HERE

As you know me, i am curious and i decided to measure some parameter of my X5 motor.

here they are:

The resistance between two phase wires: (tested at 10A DC with V measured directly on the winding wires connections (4 wires sensing measurement for better accuracy)

- measured voltage is 1.41V so R= 1.42V/10.0A= 0,142 ohms

so the max current that motor should draw between two phases is: 7.04A/Volt in DC operation.

The voltage loss in the Anderson Powerpole Y-B-G connectors:(tested at 10A DC with V measured directly on the rear connections blade of both male and female of the powerpole connector (4 wires sensing measurement for better accuracy)

- measured V loss at 10.0A = 10.4mV and R= 1.004 mohm... very low!!!

The measured winding wire diameter: 0,0285" dia

= AWG 21 !! but there are 4 parallels in a 5305...

and that's 12.77mohms per ft

and 4 parallels AWG 21 are equal to one AWG 15 wire... = 3.19 mohms per ft

so we can conclude that the total winding lenght between two phases is
142mohm / 3.19 =44.5 ft and one phase = 22.2 ft wire long.

Doc
Last edited by Doctorbass on Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
________________
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Doctorbass
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### Re: Electricals caracteristics of the X5305 hub motor HERE

So... like... I've been thinking of getting a x5 for my hillclimb project ( http://justev.info/route.jpg ). Can I conclude from those math/equations/research that it kicks ass or not?

pwbset
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### Re: Electricals caracteristics of the X5305 hub motor HERE

yes, it kick ass for sure! about torque!
________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
I speak FRENCH and english

Doctorbass
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### Re: Electricals caracteristics of the X5305 hub motor HERE

I'm really happy to see somebody measured Anderson powerpole resistance! Is it 45A version? Their datasheets actually claim 0.5mOhm resistance. I suspect that varies a lot. If some dirt/oxidation/oil gets into the contact it would deteriorate more...
tomv
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### Re: Electricals caracteristics of the X5305 hub motor HERE

Good to have those resistance measurements, Doc! Do you happen to also know the inductance of your X5?

I'm curious about this since the resistance+inductance combination define the electrical time constant of the motor's windings. In other words it describes the speed at which the current changes through time in the coils + iron laminations. Before your post above, I was assuming about 0.2ohms and 200uH for an X5 type motor, which yields a time constant of 1 millisecond. I've googled the net and have not managed to get more than hints about a real X5's inductance...
All my ebikes have gone up in flames (with my whole house) --> Many lessons learned (like that insurance companies can be cold hearted a\$\$holes; and to read and understand your contract before your house burns down...)

ZapPat
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### Re: Electricals caracteristics of the X5305 hub motor HERE

ZapPat wrote:Good to have those resistance measurements, Doc! Do you happen to also know the inductance of your X5?

I'm curious about this since the resistance+inductance combination define the electrical time constant of the motor's windings. In other words it describes the speed at which the current changes through time in the coils + iron laminations. Before your post above, I was assuming about 0.2ohms and 200uH for an X5 type motor, which yields a time constant of 1 millisecond. I've googled the net and have not managed to get more than hints about a real X5's inductance...

i'll measure that next time i'll open it .. Ex: when i'll install the contactor

the resistance+inductance combination define the electrical time constant of the motor's windings. In other words it describes the speed at which the current changes through time in the coils + iron laminations.

About that.. I remember that the Elica (japaneese fast electric 8 wheel car), they had problem with the motor over 9 or 10krpm.. they mooded their controller to compensate one of the parameter and that solved the problem

Doc
________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
I speak FRENCH and english

Doctorbass
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### Re: Electricals caracteristics of the X5305 hub motor HERE

Doctorbass wrote:i'll measure that next time i'll open it .. Ex: when i'll install the contactor

Thanks Doc!

Doctorbass wrote:About that.. I remember that the Elica (japaneese fast electric 8 wheel car), they had problem with the motor over 9 or 10krpm.. they mooded their controller to compensate one of the parameter and that solved the problem
Doc

Maybe they raised the switching frequency of the controller, because at higher commutation rates the lower PWM switching frequencies can get too close to the commutation frequency.
All my ebikes have gone up in flames (with my whole house) --> Many lessons learned (like that insurance companies can be cold hearted a\$\$holes; and to read and understand your contract before your house burns down...)

ZapPat
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### Re: Electricals caracteristics of the X5305 hub motor HERE

Doctorbass wrote:The measured winding wire diameter: 0,0285" dia

= AWG 21 !! but there are 4 parallels in a 5305...

and that's 12.77mohms per ft

and 4 parallels AWG 21 are equal to one AWG 15 wire... = 3.19 mohms per ft

so we can conclude that the total winding lenght between two phases is
142mohm / 3.19 =44.5 ft and one phase = 22.2 ft wire long.

0.0285 dia, 4 strands, 22.2 ft long, x3 phases, with 8.9g/cm3, that would make for only about 300g (0.66lbs) of copper mass, if I made the calculations right. Is that true?
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kZs0lt
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### Re: Electricals caracteristics of the X5305 hub motor HERE

kZs0lt wrote:
Doctorbass wrote:The measured winding wire diameter: 0,0285" dia

= AWG 21 !! but there are 4 parallels in a 5305...

and that's 12.77mohms per ft

and 4 parallels AWG 21 are equal to one AWG 15 wire... = 3.19 mohms per ft

so we can conclude that the total winding lenght between two phases is
142mohm / 3.19 =44.5 ft and one phase = 22.2 ft wire long.

0.0285 dia, 4 strands, 22.2 ft long, x3 phases, with 8.9g/cm3, that would make for only about 300g (0.66lbs) of copper mass, if I made the calculations right. Is that true?

If the winding is made of pure cooper, that should be true.

What do you try to determine exactly with the winding mass?

Doc
________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
I speak FRENCH and english

Doctorbass
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### Re: Electricals caracteristics of the X5305 hub motor HERE

I just unwound 3 phases of a 5305 and they measure about 50' each. Give or take a foot. Three 4 wire groups. Whats the thinking on 22' for a phase lenght?
cassschr1
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Location: LaCrosse, Wisconsin

### Re: Electricals caracteristics of the X5305 hub motor HERE

cassschr1 wrote:I just unwound 3 phases of a 5305 and they measure about 50' each. Give or take a foot. Three 4 wire groups. Whats the thinking on 22' for a phase lenght?

Hi

My calculations was made using the resisatance parameter of the wire winding according to industrial chart. But i might not have to divide by two like i did to acheive 22ft and the calculated lenght would have been 44' wich is closer.. maybe the error between the calculated lenght and your measured lengh is because of the resistance tolerance

BTW Thanks for having unwound your motor to confirm that

Doc
________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
I speak FRENCH and english

Doctorbass
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Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:24 am

### Re: Electricals caracteristics of the X5305 hub motor HERE

The weight of the copper is 1# 11 oz. Now keep in mind this is after it went thru the oven, that is no varnish on wire 20 guage
I will weigh the new copper later with varnish! and it about 55' that I cut new length's to.
Last edited by cassschr1 on Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
cassschr1
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Location: LaCrosse, Wisconsin

### Re: Electricals caracteristics of the X5305 hub motor HERE

Each phase weighs 9.2oz/260gm. 51.5' length NO VARNISH ON WIRE this is a 5305 4 strands of 20g per phase
cassschr1
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Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:57 am
Location: LaCrosse, Wisconsin

### Re: Electricals caracteristics of the X5305 hub motor HERE

Thnaks for these measurement. We now better know the 5305!

Doc
________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
I speak FRENCH and english

Doctorbass
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Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:24 am