$600 mixed ebike kit from China 350w MXUS wheel

The xf07 is the front version the xf08 is the rear as told to me by a vendor , motomech will know more about it

Re spokes - Its for disc clearance issues , thats good to know the reason its something to remember for wheel building. The hubs wiring , it was mentioned that the knock off hubs use thinner wire this hubs 3 phase wires feel like solid core not especially thick just stiff. I feel pretty confident its the better built version despite not being able to see its insides. If it does 35kmh on 48v I'll be happy with it 40K real happy 30kmh not so happy.

Ideally i want to cruise at 30kmh for fuel savings and have a top speed of 40kmh

Your choice of Battery Pack is going to be holding your performance back, and / or the controller will dramatically shorten the life of that battery pack .

Par Example :

The battery pack you show , is rated at only 15 amps continuous ,
But
The controller you show is 20 amps,

So if you do not have a way to keep the controller from drawing more than 15 amps your battery will have a very short life.

For the Faster speeds you want higher voltages will be better , the controller / text you posted with the picture of the controller shows it can use a 52 volt pack ( 14s ) a 48 volt pack is 13s.
( if correct at 64 volts you could even use a 15s pack, example would be 3 5s lipo packs, or custom made 15s pack made from 18650 cells, If you want to stay with 18650 cells 14 s packs are currently available from Vendors )

Is there a way to cancel the battery order ? So that you can get a better pack .

Once you do that we can tell you some better options for a pack.

eCue said:

If it does 35kmh on 48v I'll be happy with it 40K real happy 30kmh not so happy.

Ideally i want to cruise at 30kmh for fuel savings and have a top speed of 40kmh

Click to expand...

ScooterMan101 said:

Your choice of Battery Pack is going to be holding your performance back, and / or the controller will dramatically shorten the life of that battery pack .

Par Example :

The battery pack you show , is rated at only 15 amps continuous ,
But
The controller you show is 20 amps,

So if you do not have a way to keep the controller from drawing more than 15 amps your battery will have a very short life.

For the Faster speeds you want higher voltages will be better , the controller / text you posted with the picture of the controller shows it can use a 52 volt pack ( 14s ) a 48 volt pack is 13s.
( if correct at 64 volts you could even use a 15s pack, example would be 3 5s lipo packs, or custom made 15s pack made from 18650 cells, If you want to stay with 18650 cells 14 s packs are currently available from Vendors )

Is there a way to cancel the battery order ? So that you can get a better pack .

Once you do that we can tell you some better options for a pack.

Click to expand...

The battery and controller both have a 20 amp maximum rating
The battery will be fine the motor accelerates under 650 watts at 48v thats only 12A and would only be for SHORT duration,

Remember that battery is rated for a 500w motor Im using a 350 with a 450 controller

at 20 amp its 1080w and my speed would be 40 mph or some such thing thats just not going to happen at 48v.

What will happen is 350w to 500w maximum continuous draw, 500w is a 9 amp draw this is the stress the battery will see and likely only for 1 or 2 minutes duration.

If your still not sure on this crunch the numbers and see what the results are post them here if you find anything Im unaware of , Im not scared to learn I look forward to it. Peace

My above post is based on , Real World experience with
1) Mac motor running on 12s, 13s, and 14s battery pack
and
2) Q100c cst motor running on 12s, 13s, and 14s packs.

I have found that numbers from math and motor simulator are more than what I get out into the real world , on the road.

What kind of bike are you converting ? a light weight Road Bikewith higher pressure thinner tires
or
A mountain bike with larger , lower pressure tires that are not so smooth ?

Then there are the Factors of
Are you always riding on flat ground , like in Holland ?

Are the roads very smooth ?

Is there never any wind you will be riding into ?



Now the MXUS 07 might get slightly better speeds than my Q100c cst , since the Q100c I have is a 201 rpm model and is 2 pounds less in weight.
And I am very interested in how much more speed, because if it is enough I will build up the XF 08 and put it on the bike I have the Q100c on.

Your steady speed of 30 kph or less is doable with the pack and voltage you have now.


I am talking about the higher speeds you said you want to ride at.
And
I am looking at the numbers you posted for the battery pack
It says peak / max amps to draw from the pack is 20 amps
That is different/ higher from what is written when it says Max amps to draw continuously is only 15 amps.

I would pay attention to Max , Continuous Amps. ( That the Battery is rated to output )

When you look at the 15 amp continuous rating it suggests the battery will support 800w output continuously. This motor will be running on 175 to 350w continuous.

The bike should be one of the lighter ebikes on the road , I have a long history with racing bikes and like to ride fast.
Picked up a set of schwalbe land cruisers 2.0 tires for it. they have good reviews.

I have interest in this thread because I would like to ride 5-8 miles per hour more than what my little Q100c will get me up to now. Now it is 20-22 mph at most. Only once went to 23-23 mph and that was on a Smooth Road/about .05 to just under 1% down hill, and 3-5 mph tail wind.

So I am interested in what results you get, and once you get them , what you will do next to get even better speeds.

Keep us posted, and experiment .

There are many here that can only put in 100 watts or less with our legs, but want to go Pro Peloton Speeds.

When i do road test will post a link here for you to check out.

Hint i will be using clip on aerobars

My first build was a frt. MXUS mini (from Hitekbikes) mated to a Grinfineon 20 A square wave powered by an Ebike CA 48 V Li-Ion 20 A rack batt.;



The tires were 26" Conti Town & Country's.
Top speed in the flat, no pedal, was 23 to 24 mph, exactly what the Ebike CA sim shows w/ the Outrider std. Being a Li-Ion batt., it would lose up to 2 to 3 mph as it discharged. As I recall, the motor had that same "26" sticker on it, which means it's for a 26" whl. I always thought it was a 260 rpm @ 36 V motor, but the sim. shows the Outrider to be a 240 rpm @ 36 V motor. The sim. does show it's FX 07 as being a low speed motor (201 rpm @ 36 V), so I know they exist, but I'm thinking eCue's motor is a mid-speed, like the one I had.
After I damaged one of the Halls, I went to one of Lyen's Infineon-based Mini Monster controller that he set up to run sensorless and a rating of 22 Amps. Although the original Infineon was no slouch, the Lyen was a real "hot rod", able to spin the frt. tire easily on anything other than dry pavement. My recommendation of limiting the MXUS to 22 Amps was based on that controller, which took the MXUS right to the point where the motor would start to "hammer". This trait is exacerbated by the nature of the square wave and a softer starting sine wave controller of a somewhat higher rating might be OK on the MXUS.
The Ebike CA batt., while it lasted, had no prob. w/ either of the 2 controllers I used w/ the MXUS.
The last configuration of the MXUS I used was a 25 Amp Grinfineon powered by 12S Zippy 25C LiPoly. Since 12S is a nom. 46 V, I lost a mph on top speed, but my pack had little "sag" and only lost a mph or 2 during discharge. If I grabbed a handful of throttle, the motor would hammer pretty good.

eCue said:

motomech said:

I don't think just because an Aliexpress vendor claims the motor is a MXUS product, guarantees it is a MXUS, especially at the prices at that site. With copies and clones so prevalent from that market, I think the only way to be sure one is buying a MXUS, is to buy from the factory direct.

I did not see a 64v or higher version[controller] on the page I bought this with the idea of upgrading down the road. I should of bought one that could go up to 72v to future proof it tbh

Click to expand...

I ran a MXUS geared mini for a number of years and know that motor well.
I just wrote this yesterday in another thread;

"As solid as the the MXUS mini is, you need to be a little careful here, there is a limit to what it will take.
A long time ago, a member here, mckeefer, tested a MXUS mini to destruction. He was in the 60's Volts range when the windings melted. I don't remember how many Amps he was running.
For a motor's mass, there is a limit in Watts and for the MXUS mini, it's around 1200 Watts. As Volts go up, the Amps need to come down so not to exceed this level and this means adding Volts will reach a point of "Diminishing Return".
Amps-I have used various controllers on the MXUS and for a "hard hitting" controller like an Infineon, 22 Amps is about the limit before the motor starts to make "hammering noises". Go past 25 Amps and I wouldn't want to place money that the gears will last long. With a "soft-hitting" controller like the new sine waves, 25 Amps would probably be safe.
Volts- I have run between 12S(44V) to 15S(55V) on the MXUS. adding much more than 14S(52V) doesn't really add much speed, especially when one has to start cutting back on the Amps and the motor starts to become "power limited", rather than "RPM Limited".
Shoot for 24 to 25 mph top speed, going for any more on the MXUS mini will kill it".
Motomech

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Wish i could afford to buy retail as now Im waiting up to 9 weeks according to battery seller who suggested I might want to pay him $100 for air shipping. When the kit arrives I'll start a thread to keep a record of the build and ride quality , have much anticipation.

I read/replied to the thread by the member who destructed his MXUS 350 , at 2500w of juice no less. I think it was he was using 60A at 100v when he cooked the hall sensor , incredible that he got away for 3 weeks or what ever it was.
Hope its MXUS they ship me I think it will be as alliexpress has guarantee that you get what you pay for . I have no idea how good that guarantee is but it sounded good at the time.
Now that controller I don't have much faith in it being a sine wave , it was advertised as 20A 450w and sine wave but i can't find any documentation on it.

Have you seen that 48/64v 450w in sine wave around ?





What do you think about it , is it a square wave or sine wave controller ?

Click to expand...

It's a square wave and I doubt it has the power of an equal rated Infineon.

Have you seen that 48/64v 450w in sine wave around ?

Click to expand...

The best bet might be a 20 A "KT" sine wave from PWS Power shunt modd'ed to 25 A. But I'm not sure it would be much more powerful than what you have now, but it would be a much nicer controller to use, especially the PAS function.

Like you I want the upper limit of the wee motors performance your first system sounds the same spec as mine is. I had thought it would be up at the top end of the safe limit. Nice you increased your system to 22A with good results.


Your top speed with your first set up right about where i hope to be , I think I will reach my goal of 40kmh or close enough as your top speed with similar set up was 24mph / 38.8kmh.

thanks for the info

How many watts was the motor pulling in its acceleration mode with your first controller vs 2nd controller ?

This controller spec is 450w divide by 48v = 9.4A continuous output = 500w output
With a full 15A pull = 810w minus 20% for the motor efficiency the motor will will output 400w ,15A is 650w , 20A i at the wheel is 860w.
860w peak at the wheel after losses balls to wall for a brief second then clip out for the batteries safety.
If i got a larger controller i may well need a new battery to see any gains , Im good at 20A.

But hey my next bike will have the largest geared hub motor I can find !

I like that the kt controller has its tuning program built in. I still need to wire up and learn about the controllers options , I assume to change parameters will need to download a program and use the controllers display wires as inputs.
It has the self learn wire and 1:1 PAS its actually made for a regular electric scooter so its full featured it may have computer inputs ,have some good guides to install it . It seems very straight forward no more complicated then wiring a car stereo. Its connection are labelled in Chinese fortunately found a post by someone deciphering it.

It seems of good quality inside it has 9 Frets and a silicon case and wire seals If turns out to be sine wave i'll be happy. I bought under the impression it was a sine wave controller.

If i find its not a sine wave in testing i will buy a new controller , one that runs 36v thru 72v
Next month will likely pick up a cycle analysts , im still spending money on odds and ends now.

How many watts was the motor pulling in its acceleration mode with your first controller vs 2nd controller ?

Click to expand...

I had a C.A. at the time , but it was years ago. I think I used to see 700 to 900 Watts full throttle, depending on the controller.

But hey my next bike will have the largest geared hub motor I can find !

Click to expand...

You don't need the biggest, just a well set-up MAC from Paul (ev3em)

t seems of good quality inside it has 9 Frets and a silicon case and wire seals If turns out to be sine wave i'll be happy. I bought under the impression it was a sine wave controller.

Click to expand...

For $17, it's not a sine wave.

If i find its not a sine wave in testing i will buy a new controller , one that runs 36v thru 72v
Next month will likely pick up a cycle analysts , im still spending money on odds and ends now.

Click to expand...

For the cost of a C.A., you could buy the KT system. It's basicly the same as BMS Battery's SO6S/lcd display sine wave, but with more power. The KT system, I.M.O., would be way more useful on a Q100 build than the C.A.

I have a 36V MXUS geared hub and it's a decent little motor. Running off a Lyen controller. Just don't know what will happen if I need to repair. Parts seem to be unobtanium.

After doing much checking last night Im convinced the controller is not a sine wave controller , I did find a 350w 14A actual sine wave controller for $50 , Im thinking on buying it. First will see how the 450w sounds under load if it worries me I will swap out this month if not i will chill for awhile.

I went looking for the Mac kit you mentioned I found a beastly geared hub motor on their site. Its top speed rating is a little disappointing at 44kmh.

I may never switch motors if this is the trend.

$500

MAC V5 Rear Heavy duty 1500w Geared Hub Motor


A powerful yet compact and lightweight:design planetary gear allows it to achieve great efficiency torque and hill climbing ability while keeping a small size and low weight.
Freewheels and creates no motor resistance.

Built-in 10K temperature sensor allows to safely run the motor at up to 1,500W

Weight - 9.5lbs
Top speed - 44KMH
Volts - 50v
Freewheel - 7 to 10 spd


I will probable keep the mini mxus for years as its thats my M.O I have been riding my '99 RM Element for 17 years now and will likely ride the e-Quintama Roo for 5 or 10 years until death do us part more then likely.

tomjasz said:

I have a 36V MXUS geared hub and it's a decent little motor. Running off a Lyen controller. Just don't know what will happen if I need to repair. Parts seem to be unobtanium.

Click to expand...

Curious what distance you get from your AH's and top speed at what curb weight ?

I can tell what I get.
Q100, MXUS mini or larger geared, the motor doesn't make much difference, it's how it's used.

Ebike #1-
GT Idrive, 26" X 1.95" road tires, 50 psi, pedals and rolls good for a MTB:



"201" motor, 15 A controller, 46 Volts,
Pedaling-moderate, most of the time.
Avg. cruise speed 17 mph
2 miles per Ah

Ebike #2
Rocky Mountain, 24" X 2.4" block tread tires, 40 psi, not that great of a roller, weighs a ton.



Ezee V1 geared "260" motor, 25 A controller, 46 Volts
Pedaling-not much
Avg. cruise speed-21 mph
1 1/2 miles per Ah.

Same bike-using both motors all the time, 40 Amp controllers(combined), 46 Volts
Pedaling-none
Avg. cruise speed 24 mph (Brisk acceleration)
1 mile per Ah.

With that info I should be able to travel 40k with a 12ah battery with moderate input.
Checked on how many watts it takes to ride 25 kph on a mountain bike., about 130 watts

Road bike riders burn about 100 watts to maintain 25kmh , add 25 or 30% to that for a mtb

Came across a cycle distance calculator http://bikecalculator.com/examples.html that has a option to change handlebar and tire types.
According to it areobars on a mtb could increase distance by 25 or 30 percent , it speeds up travel time by 25 to 30% according to the calculator. It may extend the range closer to 35% at speed.

Im thinking with 100w input off and on I will see upwards of 70 km distance with a 12ah battery @ 30kmh
Don't think I could travel at any slower then 30 kmh ..

Here's the current ride , going to put slicks on the ebike after using that calculator

I gave up on the 450w controller due to its unknown display unknown max speed and bought a controller with display ready to go.

Bought from the same seller as the Mxus wheel cost - $90 + $14 epacket 14 day shipping


I bought the version labeled 500w motor 36v 20A ~ 48v 22A ( but could not download the photo.

Features of Display

Max speed adjustable : 30 to 50kmh

1. Battery indicator;
2. Trip time / Total trip time
3. 5 levels of PAS;
4. Current speed / Average speed / Max Speed/
5. Trip distance / Mileage /
6. 6km/h assistant power mode

Other Functionality:

1.PAS Level switch;
2.Electric system error indicator;
3.Controller maximum current limitation;
4.Controller minimum voltage adjustment;
5.PAS output power adjustment;

The learning curve cost me the price of the first controller about $30 so not a big hit

Be advised that when BMS Battery first came out with their "Dual Hall" intergrated PAS sensor, there were some complaints of it not working. Just an advisement, not saying the one pictured won't work. Too bad there isn't a way to test it without mounting it.
I had one that I didn't use because I didn't want to pull the crank only to find out there wasn't enough clearance for it. I took the easy way out and fitted Ebike CA's two piece "snap together" disc which makes mounting a breeze.
It seems strange to me that with all that controller info, it doesn't say whether it is a sine wave or not. But since it's paired w/ a LCD-5 display, i assume it would have to be.

eCue said:

I don't know how our website feels about linking to commercial sales so I won't as have been buying a lot a parts and would be leaving a excessive amount of links .

Click to expand...

As king as you're not selling the items yourself, posting direct links to the items is useful and helpful and desirable.

It's only when you're selling things or are otherwise related to or connected with a vendor that it's against the rules to post links outside the for sale sections.

Gd to know about links , they can be useful for research and comparison shopping.

The page had options for 3 different PAS sensors

I have not seen this on the controller label but in the description it says the brand name is Mxus model 48VLCD5 Wattage: 351 - 500 Certification: CE

Not sure if that is the sellers info https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fr...812b-487a-ab57-fc67330c2398&rmStoreLevelAB=1 or the manufactures.

If the controller has a self learn wire its not a sine wave , this one does not. So it has a chance and looks to be in a pretty good enclosure , it may well be a sine wave

eCue said:

If the controller has a self learn wire its not a sine wave

Click to expand...

In general, this is not correct. There are sine controllers that also have self-learn. Just one example is in this post:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=85723&p=1253797&hilit=*learn*+*sine*#p1253797
there are others noted around ES, though because people don't always use the same terminology a single search doens't find them all.

Interesting as in my research I had read that sign wave controllers did not have the self learn feature and you would have to play with the wires ?
The LCD5 display has a feature to swap hall wires through software , so you do not have to switch wires manually.

NEWS Flash

It looks like a straight up KT controller not the sign wave version.

I can just make out the controllers code and it looks like ZWS to me. That means square wave , there's is more.
The other KT controller labeled as sign wave might also be a square wave.
Read the thread below
this thread on ES that seems to have the same controller https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=79763

It appears this controller is the 9 mosfet version, the one in the above link is the smaller 6 mosfet for the 250 -350w motor.

I finally picked up the model number from c & d photos the last numbers in the code are the same as the company bought it from , makes me think it was made for them.

The model number is kt48zwsrmt-lcd-c&d when i do searches it turns up as kt48zwsrm 9 mosfet controller with ratings varying from 351 to 500w from c&d to 750 to 1000w depending on the advertiser.

motomech said:

Be advised that when BMS Battery first came out with their "Dual Hall" intergrated PAS sensor, there were some complaints of it not working. Just an advisement, not saying the one pictured won't work. Too bad there isn't a way to test it without mounting it.
I had one that I didn't use because I didn't want to pull the crank only to find out there wasn't enough clearance for it. I took the easy way out and fitted Ebike CA's two piece "snap together" disc which makes mounting a breeze.

Click to expand...

I spun the little inner wheel on my unmounted PAS sensor (of the type pictured) and and it caused the rear wheel to momentarily spin. So you can test the basic functioning before pulling crank arms and mounting.

The problem I had with this type of sensor was that pressing it onto the crank spindle caused the inner wheel on mine to split. That reduced its grip on the spindle and also caused it to expand in its case and act like a drum brake shoe, pressing against the housing. The effect was that it wouldn't spin.

There a photo of the crack after wiring it nearly closed as a repari in the link below. This repair has been working fine for a bit more than a month now. My suggestion is to be careful about how much force you use to press this kind of PAS onto the crank spindle. If the fit seems really tight and pressing it on requires a lot of force, then some filing and grinding of the plastic "teeth" on that inner ring may be called for. I'd also be inclined to press it on in a warm environment so the plastic will be more flexible and less brittle.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369&p=1333163#p1332443