E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
Joe   1 mW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Joe » Nov 25 2019 8:06am

I’ve been looking everywhere and now just found this.
https://www.directindustry.com/prod/tan ... 69448.html
Adam, Can’t wait to see your belt design. If you’re looking for a beta tester. Here I am.
This company seems to have a large range of spliced belts.
Are you using something like this?
They have some videos of the joining.
https://www.ero-joint.com/en/mechanical ... onous-belt
Turns out the be from GATES.
Which turns out to be a French company
https://www.ero-joint.com/sites/default ... ept_19.pdf
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My rule of thumb.
Everyone should be respected. No need for a bad name in the ebike world. If we all respect other users than we never get noticed. So far so good.

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by hkj » Nov 26 2019 3:45am

Exciting news! While I agree the noise is acceptable in the woods, it's way to loud when riding on public roads at around 20-30 km/h or faster. The belt drive seems like a great idea if you can pull it off. Please share some videos of the testing, always interesting to follow.

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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Cowardlyduck » Nov 27 2019 5:47am

I still haven't done a big, planned ride, but jumping on and doing a quick spur of the moment ride seems to be what the LMX 64 is built for.
I recently updated my Nucular firmware and after stuffing around a lot with settings finally got things back up and running again.
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=75494&start=825#p1511750
http://wiki.nucular.tech/en:firmware
If anyone else wants to do the update, be careful to export your settings first, or at the very least take a photo of every settings page. It's a big PITA to figure it all out again. Adam was kind enough to send me an export from his bike, but for some reason it didn't fully work with my motor causing it to lock up and not rotate. Thankfully I took photo's of my settings first so was able to make a hybrid settings file using my previous motor settings and Adams other input settings. I've attached it below if anyone else wants to attempt the update and gets stuck like I did.

Anyway I just took my LMX through some local trails as the sun was setting and found this beautiful spot on a local creek.
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Then the bugs started eating me so I got outa there. :P

During the ride the bike started to develop a strange chugging sound. I can't figure out where it's coming from, but the frequency makes me think it's the chain. It kind of sounds like there is a section of the chain that has a different shape or something. Take a listen:


Anyone have any idea's what could be causing that?

Cheers
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bzhwindtalker   1 MW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by bzhwindtalker » Nov 27 2019 9:50am

Nice picture!
About the sound, yes it could be a stiff link or some debris under one of the sprocket teeth. If you have a master link it could also make this noise as it goes trough the tensioner.


Here is some early view of the belt drive sound, as I will be making a full video soon with explanations about how it works :




For now we have been able to run 100% power without issues on pavement, as we have reworked the belt tensioner system.
With the current mud conditions here, next ride in the woods will make a good test :twisted:

Adam

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Cowardlyduck » Nov 27 2019 4:51pm

Thanks Adam.

The belt 'sounds' promising, although there is still a surprising amount of noise in your quick demo. It almost sounds like your motor isn't operating in FOC mode?
As a comparison, could you do a measure of the decibel output near the front sprocket. I saw peaks of 79-80DB with the chain. Anything below 70DB is going to make a huge difference.

How is the belt attached also? Is it a split belt?

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bzhwindtalker   1 MW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by bzhwindtalker » Nov 27 2019 5:12pm

More details here :

I will make some test with the sound meter we have compared to the chain drive.

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Cowardlyduck » Nov 27 2019 6:11pm

Thanks for the update Adam.

I'll put my hand up to test. I like to run my mode 3 with 200 phase amps, so we'll see if it can handle that!

It looks like there is a lot of slack in the belt. Would it make sense to use a slightly shorter belt?

Cheers
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Grantmac » Nov 27 2019 9:46pm

Have you considered the Gates split belt design? It seems to make for lighter pulleys which also shed dirt.

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by bzhwindtalker » Nov 28 2019 3:44am

Cowardlyduck wrote:
Nov 27 2019 6:11pm
Thanks for the update Adam.

I'll put my hand up to test. I like to run my mode 3 with 200 phase amps, so we'll see if it can handle that!

It looks like there is a lot of slack in the belt. Would it make sense to use a slightly shorter belt?

Cheers
For 200A I can not tell about the handling, that is a lot of torque! Our whole system has been designed with this 166A limit we use on our bikes and serial bikes.

About the belt tension is not so much slack, as the belt has to go over the swing arm with enough clearance. Belt length is 1728mmX 12mm wide in 8M module. There is also not a lot of different sizes available in those dimensions. Final version will have even higher belt tension.

Adam

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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Cowardlyduck » Nov 28 2019 4:06am

All that makes sense. Thanks for explaining Adam.

I like 200A because it's just enough to power wheelie. I'm still only running 50A battery so it tapers off pretty quick and I haven't been able to overheat anything in normal riding yet.
Apart from the belt maybe breaking and a bit of extra heat, is there any other reason you would say not to use 200A phase?

Cheers
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by hkj » Nov 28 2019 4:29am

bzhwindtalker wrote:
Nov 27 2019 5:12pm
More details here :
I will make some test with the sound meter we have compared to the chain drive.
Interesting work Adam! Seems like your on the right track! Hopefully the belt system can deal with all the abuse that comes from enduro riding and bashing. Hope it turns out right, in that case I will replace the chain drive system.

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by bzhwindtalker » Nov 28 2019 11:44am

I did the test no load with our sound meter, at around 20 cm from the motor sprocket and max speed, belt is 83 db and chain is 98-99 db, so it is a pretty substantial difference. I think it is even more noticeable under load.


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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Grantmac » Nov 28 2019 12:38pm

Given that dB is a logarithmic scale that is a HUGE noise decrease.

My thought is going for the large amount of wrap around both sprockets should allow slightly less tension and also keep rocks out of the drivetain. My one concern would be replacing a custom on-off rear sprocket. I have an idea for that if you are interested, would be just slightly heavier.

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Cowardlyduck » Nov 28 2019 5:29pm

Thanks for the comparison Adam.

The app I used on my phone must be way out as I typically only measured 79-80 db peak, 75-77 db sustained from my chain.

Grantmac, your not wrong, that is a sizable difference. I went to try and figure out how much in percentage, but got baffled by the mathematics required to figure it out. Anyone feel like having a crack:
https://sciencing.com/convert-decibel-i ... 08377.html

I think I will be wanting a few rear sprockets (maybe of different sizes) due to their custom nature. I'd be keen to know what you have in mind.

Cheers
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

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bzhwindtalker   1 MW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by bzhwindtalker » Nov 30 2019 12:11pm

Hi guys, report from the belt testing,
I did another 21 km of testing this moring with zero issues, I had branches getting stuck in the derailleur but none in the belt due to the high wraping angle I guess. I tried to take some more videos but it was very foggy and wet :?
I would have riden more but the last storm has put so many trees down that it is impossible to ride most of my usual trails :cry:
Attachments
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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by SlowCo » Nov 30 2019 1:51pm

bzhwindtalker wrote:
Nov 30 2019 12:11pm
Hi guys, report from the belt testing,
Great result!
And very well executed. The wrapping so far round to almost 9 O' clock is a bonus to not getting stuff caught between belt and pulley.
But it looks like the bolt of your rear shock is missing or is that just my imagination?:

LMX.png
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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Grantmac » Nov 30 2019 2:51pm

I'll be interested to see if there is much of an efficiency reduction especially with that much wrap around the idler.

On the other hand with that much wrap you almost don't need teeth on the rear sprocket so wear should be very low.

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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Cowardlyduck » Nov 30 2019 8:53pm

Sounding promising Adam. Let me know when your ready for me to do some beta testing. :)
SlowCo wrote:
Nov 30 2019 1:51pm
But it looks like the bolt of your rear shock is missing or is that just my imagination?:
This is normal, but I agree it doesn't look great. That is why I 3D printed these plugs for it:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=100198&start=200#p1496176

Cheers
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Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

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madin88   1 GW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by madin88 » Dec 01 2019 12:44pm

What a clever solution. While the tensioner at this place makes everything possible, it also will work as some kind of protection if dirt or larger debries get between belt and pulleys. Without the tensioner, the belt would suffer more damage or even snap due to overtension.

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Cowardlyduck » Dec 10 2019 6:02am

Any more news on the belt testing? Do you think any of us can help beta test soon?

I finally got an ok 3D print of the battery covers. My 3D printer is not the greatest and large/tall pieces like the battery cover tend to get out of alignment, but I finally got an ok print by laying the bottom half down and putting large supports underneath.
Wrapping it in carbon fibre vinyl makes it look ok too. :D
DSC_5809.JPG
DSC_5809.JPG (224.83 KiB) Viewed 2694 times
I might also wrap my rear mudguard as it looks a bit bad compared to the rest of the bike.

Cheers
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

Ebike Garage - My YouTube Ebike ramblings.

High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

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bzhwindtalker   1 MW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by bzhwindtalker » Dec 11 2019 3:45am

This looks nice! Last week I machined a mold to vacuum form this part.
Lucas and Damien are at our vacuum forming partner today and will check if it can be done.

Unfortunately not much more testing with the belt yet, been busy with the 161H doing trail maintenance after some early snow that did a lot of damage.
Las weekend I went to clear the trails with a 30cm brushless 36V chainsaw. Ended up spending all afternoon to clear maybe 5% of what I usually ride, that was physically brutal :oops: The chainsaw did great even on 35cm diameter oaks :bigthumb: :bolt:

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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Cowardlyduck » Dec 11 2019 6:12am

Thanks!

Yeah trail maintenance is important and time consuming...I recently started building one in my backyard. :)
DSC_5792.JPG
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I can get about a meter of air on my LMX 64 from this jump. :D
DSC_5794.JPG
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Electric chainsaws are also awesome. I have an Ego 56V and it will cut through almost anything. :)

Cheers
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

Ebike Garage - My YouTube Ebike ramblings.

High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

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bzhwindtalker   1 MW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by bzhwindtalker » Dec 17 2019 4:20am

After checking on our bikes and new bikes we assembled, here is the procedure to update your LMX 64 Nucuclar controller :

How to update your LMX 64 to the latest (11/19) software

This update solves the double power up "bug", so with the update when you turn on the battery it will not turn the screen on then off on his own.You will have to boot the battery, then the screen. It also add a neutral mode "N" that disables power but keep screen on. You can also set the throttle or PAS on and off depending on the selected mode if you want.
Overall a lot of the features we have been requesting have been implemented with this update.

Here is the manual : 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jr6Ik ... HPeEATgwo2

The manual is in French but pretty straightforward I think. Let me know if this is an issue?Please download the files in the archive and unpack to the root of an sd card :
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WZHCb ... dpMjdXh-54 

Insert SD card to the display and follow the steps of the guide.

Joe   1 mW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Joe » Dec 17 2019 8:19am

Hello Adam,
That is a genius solution. The noise reduction of 15 db is massive. That’s amazing. Well done.
Noise measurement are normal 1meter from the source.
I love my bike and you just keep making it better.
One think I noticed.
Looks to me as if you have welded the new belt tensioner onto the swinging arm.
Would there be a way to make a clamp system so that it is easier to retro fit?
Also after a crash. I crushed my thigh with the handle bars. I found this.
It’s a handle bar limiter. It’s for a ZS44 shaft. Does this fit? It’s from Acros.
I would change if it does.
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My rule of thumb.
Everyone should be respected. No need for a bad name in the ebike world. If we all respect other users than we never get noticed. So far so good.

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bzhwindtalker   1 MW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by bzhwindtalker » Dec 17 2019 10:17am

Hello, Please send me more info about it and I will check if it fits.
Regarding the belt tensioner, it attaches to the swing arm at the same place as the sprocket cover, so there is no need of extra support or any modification, it is really backward compatible. We had some quotes made for the parts, but in small batch is is quite expensive. We are negociating the prices down as much as possible.

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