PMW Shocker

[12p3phPMDC]

Patmont,

I like your story man....Garage builds to production to fights agains knockoffs...

Any thoughts of bicycles with the CIDLI suspension?

Any thoughts of bicycle front suspension forks kind of like the retrofit kits for the scooters?

I would buy one!

Chris

[dragonfire]

th epms ( do you have the version with hall sensors and how many? 2or 3 phase layout? ) at this setup may profit from a setup using magnetic or optoelectronic sensors to allow a more efficient actuating of the windings, if using two static rotos discs, put up some optocouplers ( can´t be disturbed by electric noise while magnotos may can)and a switch to get the discs 30 offset if delta/ Wye is possible on them ( 3 phase), otherwise one rotor with like 6-12 couplers should suffit the purpose.

perm allready claims in excess to 90 % efficiency, most probably only in delta and on the version with hall sensors and fitted controller 8 hence they sell them) - the kelly goes another not fully ohm´ed out route.

[PatmontS]

Excellent questions and suggestions dragonfire,

Though we'd have to kiiilll ya if we told you too much, we've left most of those functions up to the fully automatic on board PPGS (Proprietary Pragmatic Gazebo Synthesizer).

[dragonfire]

thanks for the warm words;

considering the 120´ies origin this gazebo-synthesizer ( sounds like a spongebob-quote) is modulated for torque, an amplitude alteration as http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F6727668 is far loer effective than delta7wye but seemigly something to consider on a vehicle that wants to coast sometimes and has no gears.
A more "yasseeboo" ( smoother sinuscurves) type of setting.

as for the optoelectric sensors, did you knew there are "reeded" ones available in microseize that can easily fitsomehere inside the case or running rotor of the perm ( 3i or others may have the right adhesive for that or you go the rfid-way here and simply drill some holes and use some industrial adhesive liquid glue). "multiple-casereeded electric powerplant" sounds cool, eh ?

the fact that these sensors could power an abs within the regen and signal output could drive another release-valve on hydraulic external hub brakes comes as an additional benefit.
if using a 4 or 7-wire technique now for the actual acceleration but regen purpose only your regen setting could alter it´s amplitude according the load on the rear wheel when decelarating, too, so the switchover from regen braking power over gravel braking power into the abs range i regen only would be a smooth one.

[PatmontS]

Our first race track test for the Shocker prototype turned out better than expected for Team PMW. We entered the Re-Fuel electric performance TT event at the world famous Laguna Seca Raceway on Sunday, and came away with our first podium finish! Though still at 85% controller setting we posted the second fastest lap time for electric motorcycles, and only two seconds behind the fastest.
Both race pilots Gabe Patmont and Scott Bolton reported the CIDLI suspension performed flawlessly, and liquid cooling kept the electron management systems cool all day long. The Super Motard setup with beefy front disc brake got a real workout. They had the slicks scrubbed all the way to the sidewalls.
We'll post the "Shocker Testing #4" YouTube video later this week. I love the cork screw shot.

[PatmontS]

As promised, the vid to accompany the previous post;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raJGTHga ... r_embedded

[fechter]

Awesome! Who was first?

[PatmontS]

Awesome! Who was first?

Thanks!

Though we posted higher practice lap times, the guys from ElectricMotorSports beat us by two seconds in the official time trials;

http://www.plugbike.com/2009/07/22/elec ... at-refuel/

[dragonfire]

Any luck with a bidirectional throttle, Steve?

tis patent on alike applications belongs to Vectrix, possibly now on sale...

[Miles]

tis patent on alike applications belongs to Vectrix, possibly now on sale...

You're joking?

[MikeB]

tis patent on alike applications belongs to Vectrix, possibly now on sale...

You're joking?

Joking about which? The patent for using a reverse throttle motion to trigger regen braking is owned by Vectrix, and Vectrix is currently looking for a buyer to avoid bankruptcy. Selling their patent seems likely, given that it's an asset that could have some value.

[Miles]

The joke is the US patent system, then.

[dragonfire]

well, it´s seemingly not only a prototype but also a personal toy that needs to be pimped7 souped up, too.
lulz can be had much earlier about that, mainly cause of the fact that DOT wil never allow for this and about no research about this being done before implementing it. don´t dig deeper on the us patent system and it´s usage here... .
.
vectrix uses a fully digital car-standard controller with can-bus communication - fully siliconized, far from a gazeboo controller, in order to get hs to work at some decent-still-lower-2-digit efficiency. vectrix pumped that few energie into unbalanced ( balanced in whole banks so basically even worser than just unbalanced at all) nimh-banks, lipo´s are a little better but only hybrid lipo cells with carbon nanutubes containing supercaps will be worth the extra-effort to have regen -stepless and torque-controlled - on the shocker´s setup as it looks like.
there are too many patents in this field allready claimed to use it for free, ac propulsion has a setup that is also dependand on their controller and multilayer winding when running their asynchronus 150 engine, maybe the perm 120/156 can take something similar ? ac propulsion does licence out, Magma for example ( us-based) will also be able to serve that and i dount they allready have a 2-wheeled reference vehicle for offroad usage - joint venture seems not to far out of the window if you can figure something out with magma imo.

[dragonfire]

since Mr patmont is seemingly too shy to name it but it may help to back up the Cidli cushionings reputation:
the cosigner of the patent registration who was engineer with PMW until 2007 is senior engineer with Tesla since 2007 until today. In before he worked with the company that made this 3-wheeler 30 k electric car that was also featured several times in a austin mayer movie, the Corbin Sparrow.
This also makes me look onto my ESR as a kind of 2-wheel "Tesla" since the development stage including tubular frame design also has this name tagged on the application and most probably also some touch on the electronics layout

As for doubts about the Cidli, this and 4+ years of successfull distribution on offroad-scooters and offroad-karts and now even wheelchairs should help about general concerns and refrains with the "new design".

[dragonfire]

so "watt"´s up, are there some news form the "shocker" or is everybody in vacation currently ?

[oatnet]

Wow, Greeves bikes are shockingly nice...

I discovered Greeves from this thread, had fun reasearching him, and put in an eBay saved search in case one ever showed up there. Today, one did:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 0400013848

Its been bid up to $630 so far, I wonder what the reserve will turn out to be.

-JD

[Smoker]

Nothing to smell, cept for the flowers.

PMW for the win!

[dragonfire]

According to a post of Mr Patmont on Gopednation the shocker is ice´d until economy turns into better conditions, but there is a propane powered ( silent and smoke-free) variant of the cart and also small scooter lineup announced for nov/ dec of the year - powered by Lehr 4-stroke motors, fired of propane gas out of cartridges.

basically a fun gocart which doesn´t annoy the neighbours and a clearly sub 25 lbs foldable scooter, both with roundabout 1 hp ( 700 watts ) only but that´s plenty for good and clean fun.

just "twist and go", and a recharge is done by cartridge replacement in lesser than one minute only - all with a pricetag in the 3-digit range :fingersx: as it looks by now


(

[dragonfire]

i am hoping they throw some effort into a electric minimoto like a 750 watt "Riot" ( folding minibike sans pedals ) dirtbike; the shocker itself now officially is a pricey toy of "Mr Goped", not the worst outcome for an ebike-project.

[def215]

i am hoping they throw some effort into a electric minimoto like a 750 watt "Riot" ( folding minibike sans pedals ) dirtbike; the shocker itself now officially is a pricey toy of "Mr Goped", not the worst outcome for an ebike-project.

it would be nice to see pmw incorporate more electric powered vehicles in their line up. but it seems the e-rides that pmw put out so far are more civilian than anything and doesnt seem like they really belong off-road. i do hope to see that change though opening up their market with more options. but i guess thats what the shocker is there for.

[dragonfire]

i believe it´s a clever thing to "part it out" and licence out the Kanti-Link suspension´s manufacturing to motorbike manufacturers with DIN-ISO and alike certifications, a fullblown street-homologated product would require homologationing not only of the manufacturing and all processes involved but also backoffice quality control instances and would lead to longer-term warranty responsibilies and alike adding on insurance cost and massive restructuration needs of PMW.
remaining in the sub 50 cc obby-toys is a safe harbour seemingly not afflicted by the recent changes in law about pocketbikes so it´s safe to stay there; a wider product range in the electric section based on components allready sitting in the shelves ( except for the battery pan which could be taken of the go-bike bike-kit, only the rear swingarm of the Riot would have to be redesigned in a small production batch that is made in-house anyways) would be nice, and the sole electric pocketbikes in the market yet are bladez and have like 350 watts in maximum - a sexy "stripped" electric dirtbike with 750 watt ( 130 amps maximum draw so no stall to be feared) like an electric "Riot" would surely find it´s niche, even more since the rack-kit would allow a lightweight rider to have a passenger with him like a toddlers seat - all it needs is footpegs/ grindpegs on a more beefier u-stand mounted were the allready existing footpegs are at , alternatively a massive children trailer and several 6-packs or a whole cooling box can be carried along on it with ease on one of these:
(pic includes smelly gas motor, but you´ll get the idea):



go-bike rack kit ( with a 450 friction drive motor allready on it - this is an option, too, without esr-motor and affiliated rear frame redesign):