My Kona Smoke 29'er

[Russell]

First ride

…but first a bit of background.

Last Fall I was looking for a replacement for my Raleigh hybrid, specifically something that would take the edge off the bone-jarring rides I was enduring on some rather poor roads. I didn’t want a front suspension but I figured a resilient steel frame and big tires would help smooth out the bumps. The bike I settled on was a 2009 Kona Smoke 2-9.

The Kona Smoke is an inexpensive bike (list $425) with low end components, however I was buying it mainly for the frame and the ability to run big tires. The first thing I did when I got home, even before riding it, was to change out the crankset, bottom bracket, front and rear derailleurs, cassette, and seatpost. I rode it 5 times in November of 2008 and that was it.

Now that I had a new bike I ordered a motor kit for the Raleigh which consisted of a Bafang geared front motor, 36V/15A controller, 36V/9Ah SLA battery pack in a tote bag, rear trunk bag and throttle. I immediately re-laced the motor into a new rim with Wheelsmith DH13 spokes. I first hit the road with the bike in early February 2009 and chalked up 909 miles by early May (see bike review here http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8579 ). I liked the bike but I wanted to try a direct drive motor. I had ordered a rear 9C motor kit from E-BikeKit but decided not to use it. Later I purchased a front 9C motor from the same guys which I intended to install on the Kona bike. However I first wanted to do a direct comparison to the Bafang so I installed the Nine Continent motor/wheel on the Raleigh using the same 36V/15A controller and 36V/6A LiMn battery pack made up of 3 Bosch Fatpack battery packs (see here: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7569&start=75#p147245) which replaced the SLA pack a month earlier.

I liked the pairing of the Raleigh with the 9C motor so my original plan changed and I decided to install the orphaned Bafang motor on the Kona…and thus the Smoke-E was born. To handle the larger 700 x 47 tires I laced the little motor into a Sun Rhyno Lite rim, reusing the 258mm DH13 spokes from the previous Sun CR18 build.

Kona 008.jpg (87.98 KiB) Viewed 8291 times

The controller is a 36V model I got from E-BikeKit.com which I modified to reduce the current from 22A to a bit over 15A. I may choose to upgrade to a 48V battery in the future and this controller can handle it. The controller is handlebar mounted because it’s just so darn convenient. For a throttle I chose the same Bladez trigger throttle I used on the previous ebike (see here; http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8026) which necessitated removing the stock SRAM left shifter. A “5 speed” thumb shifter I picked up from Nashbar.com for a buck now controls the front derailleur for the current 2x8 setup though I may go to a 1x9 arrangement in the future and eliminate it completely.

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In the rear I opted for a Topeak Explorer rack and their DX (w/rigid sides) trunk bag with the slide on MTX system. I made a little switch box with a momentary pushbutton and 220 ohm resistor bypass to pre-charge the controller along with a 12V/50A toggle switch from RadioShack. A red LED indicates the power is on.

Kona 021.jpg (88.39 KiB) Viewed 8292 times

I took the bike out for a short shakedown ride. I came back and relocated the speedometer to the right fork as it was getting interference from the controller. I also replaced the 8 speed chain with a 9 speed chain because the 8 speed master link was interfering with the Deore LX rear derailleur roller wheels.

With the battery charged up a bit but not quite full (40.6V) I headed out again. While this bike is set up quite similar to the Raleigh I have been riding exclusively this spring the differences were immediately apparent. The most noticeable item is the handlebars, at about 2 inches higher on the Kona, which makes for what feels like a night and day difference in stance. The big tires on the Kona inflated to 40psi front/50psi rear really do soak up the bumps and overall the bike simply exudes stability.

The tires on the Kona have a 2% greater circumference compared to the Raleigh (47 vs. 35), thus the no load speed increased as you would expect, from 21.4 to 21.8 mph (at 41.3V). Out on the road the speed seems a little higher than I expected at close to 18.0 mph compared to low 17’s when on the Raleigh. The difference might be owed to the fact that I lopped 4 feet out of the motor phase power cable for a custom fit to the controller or the controller itself or a little bit of both. In any event there was some assist available throughout the ride up to 20 mph.

Something I was very happy about was that the motor did not exhibit the vibration under load that was apparent when it was mounted on the Raleigh. Some might say it’s the controller but I used this same model for a while on the Raleigh so I can only conclude it’s either the wheel build, though I did each myself using the same parts and pattern, or more likely it’s the super stiff straight front forks on the Kona compared to the slender, curved forks on the Raleigh. Whatever, it feels like a new motor.

I concluded the inaugural ride after 18.7 miles with an average speed of 17.0 mph and 6.7Wh/mile of power used or about spot-on what I would have expected when the motor was on the Raleigh. The ride quality of the Kona however is smoother and the brakes are more powerful. Well it’s only one ride but this combo of the Kona Smoke 29’er and the little Bafang motor is a nice package.

-R

[gooldi]

Russell, your bikes are soo clean!
its very nice!
The Trunk bag from Topeak looks very nice, too!
i like all that clean, clear installation, and its looks like a new Bike, or one, that was made to customize it this way!

I have the Bafang, to, but we in germany in Pedelecforum.de have the Problem, that we dont have the ideal Throttle!
I prefer the Pedelec sensor, with a 3-Gear-setting in the controller, but its too rigid, too fast!

Whats your throttle like? Would you post it in the german forum? Would be soo nice!

We are trying to construct the ideal multi-purpose-controller, a company called "elfkw" will do so!

Nice Bike, clean and cool, how far can you get with it?

[dogman]

That does look sweet. How come I can't find one like it for cheap at a garage sale? I'll just have to keep hunting. I like the 29'er concept. I miss bigger wheels, but don't want to go back to skinny tires on my local roads. Tall handlebars are the bomb, I love to put bmx bars on my bikes. Too old for riding all crouched over. There is er, something in the way nowdays.

[Russell]

Russell, your bikes are soo clean!
its very nice!
The Trunk bag from Topeak looks very nice, too!
i like all that clean, clear installation, and its looks like a new Bike, or one, that was made to customize it this way!

I have the Bafang, to, but we in germany in Pedelecforum.de have the Problem, that we dont have the ideal Throttle!
I prefer the Pedelec sensor, with a 3-Gear-setting in the controller, but its too rigid, too fast!

Whats your throttle like? Would you post it in the german forum? Would be soo nice!

We are trying to construct the ideal multi-purpose-controller, a company called "elfkw" will do so!

Nice Bike, clean and cool, how far can you get with it?

Thank you for the compliments.

It's nice to be able to slide the Topeak trunk bag off to bring it inside for charging however the bag itself isn't as versatile as I'd like. The main compartment is roomy enough with a movable divider however it looks to be a tad short (max 11.75" or 298mm) for someone who might want to use 3-12Ah SLA batteries due to the slight intrusion of the bracket on which the front mechanism is mounted. The top rear expands a bit for taller items but I'd rather have another compartment on top. The rigid side compartments are narrow, about 1.25"/30mm, which limits their usefulness. I did get my not so mini pump and tools in one side with room in the other for personal items; wallet, cell phone and a snack bar or two with maybe room for a sandwich.

The throttle I use is a potentiometer type trigger throttle from a scooter which I have modified with a couple resistors to work in place of the original hall-effect type throttle. I like it a lot. I would like to try a pedelec perhaps in combination with a handlebar mounted 5K linear pot as a substitute throttle however none of my controllers support a pedelec.

Today I rode the bike over one of my favorite routes which at just over 32 miles (51km) requires using the throttle conservatively and pedaling moderately or better to extend the life of my small 36V/6Ah battery pack. I did the ride today at my best pace yet, 17.2mph average speed (27.5km/h), while using just 5.35Ah or 6.2Wh/mi (3.9Wh/km).

I think this may be my favorite ebike

-R

[Russell]

That does look sweet. How come I can't find one like it for cheap at a garage sale? I'll just have to keep hunting. I like the 29'er concept. I miss bigger wheels, but don't want to go back to skinny tires on my local roads. Tall handlebars are the bomb, I love to put bmx bars on my bikes. Too old for riding all crouched over. There is er, something in the way nowdays.

Thanks. While I guess the bike wasn't "garage sale" or "Wally-World" cheap, at $425 it was inexpensive as name-brand bikes go. Since I pedal continuously and at a fairly high rpm (for ebikers that is) I need to get the fit just right, a one-size-fits all bike will not do. Still even after I upgraded many of the components it came in at the low end of what I normally have spent on conventional bike builds in the past.

I was surprised to find the handlebars on this bike are less than an inch above the saddle because I feel so much more upright on this bike compared to the Raleigh hybrid I have been riding on which the bars are set 1" below the saddle. I have learned however through a lot of trials that with a bike often a minor adjustment to the handlebars or saddle can make a world of difference.

The tires on this Kona aren't technically quite "29's" but they are close (700x47). I tell ya these tires have made me a believer, they ride smooth, absorb shock, corner great, and seemingly with no drop in efficiency. In fact today I rode a 32 mile course at my best time to date with this bike while using less battery energy. I assume this is because I'm getting into summer form or maybe since I'm more comfortable I am simply able to pedal more.

-R

[Russell]

The controller is a 36V model I got from E-BikeKit.com which I modified to reduce the current from 22A to a bit over 15A. I may choose to upgrade to a 48V battery in the future and this controller can handle it.

With this bike completed my attention now turns to the next big purchase, one that I've dreaded because I'm gonna hate plunking down $400-$500 on a higher capacity battery. I do want longer range but I'm undecided whether I want to stay at 36V or step up to 48V. My other bike http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8579&start=30#p161526 is powered by a 9C motor and I'm quite satisfied with its top speed of at least 23.5 mph (37.6km/h) on 36V. The real dilemma for me then is do I want to run the Bafang on 48V.

The Bafang kit originally came with 3 12V/9Ah SLA batteries however they now sit unused after just 20 cycles since I switched to using (3) 36V Bosch “Fatpack” tool batteries (about 6Ah) http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7569&start=75#p147245
Today I grabbed one of the 12V/9Ah batteries and wired it in series with the Fatpacks to give me 54V to start. The unloaded speed rose from 21.8 mph to 28.4 mph and the top speed out on the road rose from about 18 mph (28.8km/h) to something over 23.5 mph (37.6 km/h), or essentially a dead heat with my other ebike. I knew the SLA battery was going to be the limiting factor as the best I ever got from the SLA pack was about 5.4Ah when drained over 1.5 hours. I therefore set out with a mind to limit the capacity used on this ride to no more than 5Ah.

The extra speed from 48V was fun and for this ride I pedaled vigorously but didn’t make any effort to conserve power from the battery. With the controller limited to 15A peak power was only 747W and no real danger to the 250W Bafang from a power or torque perspective. At the pace I was going I calculated early on I could probably go 20 miles (32km) and at the end of the ride I had covered 20.4 miles and used almost exactly 5.0Ah. Judging by the minimum voltage registered (41.54V) it appeared the 12V SLA gave out just a bit earlier, maybe at 4.7 or 4.8Ah. My average speed was 19.8 mph (31.7km/h) which bested my top average speed ride of 18.0 mph at 36V when the motor was on my other bike. The price paid was the energy consumption of 245Wh or 12.0Wh/mi (7.5Wh/km). By comparison I rode the bike yesterday at 36V and covered 32.2 miles (51.5km) at 17.0 mph (27.2km/h) using just 198Wh or 6.2Wh/mi (3.9Wh/km).

36V or 48V...still undecided

-R

[gogo]

Those big wheels sound like the ticket and they make the Bafang look like a generator hub. Mmmmmmm, stealthy.

Whatever you do, don't double up the 36V fatpacks!

I've had my Bafang at 48V and 56V and I can't decide between the two. I like increased acceleration from the 56V, but the 48V top speed is plenty. I'll probably end up with 84V and a speed limiter.

[Russell]

I’ve been riding my new Kona/Bafang E-bike just about every day and I really like it. After getting a baseline at 36V (41V) I added a 12V/9Ah SLA in series with the 6Ah LiMn tool packs for 54V peak. After a couple of fast rides for some thrills I settled down to using the throttle more conservatively.


.....Distance......./........Avg speed........./.......Energy used......./.......comments


19 miles ( 30km ) / 17.0 mph ( 27.2 km/h ) / 6.7 Wh/mi ( 4.2 Wh/km ) 36V LiMn 6Ah (41V)

32 miles ( 51km ) / 17.2 mph ( 27.5 km/h ) / 6.2 Wh/mi ( 3.9 Wh/km )

32 miles ( 51km ) / 17.0 mph ( 27.2 km/h ) / 6.1 Wh/mi ( 3.8 Wh/km )



20 miles ( 32km ) / 19.8 mph ( 31.7 km/h ) / 12.0 Wh/mi ( 7.5 Wh/km ) Added 12V/9Ah SLA (54V)

21 miles ( 34km ) / 19.7 mph ( 27.5 km/h ) / 10.8 Wh/mi ( 6.8 Wh/km )


32 miles ( 51km ) / 18.2 mph ( 29.1 km/h ) / 7.9 Wh/mi ( 4.9 Wh/km ) More conservative use of throttle

34 miles ( 54km ) / 18.1 mph ( 29.0 km/h ) / 8.0 Wh/mi ( 5.0 Wh/km )

29 miles ( 46km ) / 18.4 mph ( 29.4 km/h ) / 9.0 Wh/mi ( 5.6 Wh/km )

22 miles ( 35km ) / 18.2 mph ( 29.1 km/h ) / 8.6 Wh/mi ( 5.4 Wh/km )


I’ve pretty much decided to go with a 48V/10Ah LiFePO4 battery when I upgrade my current set-up. It’s nice to have a little extra oomph off the line and speeds in the mid 20’s whenever I choose. Even allowing for an 80% DOD I should be able to ride for 45 or 50 miles at a brisk 18 mph pace.

-R

[bikeelectric]

Russell, your bikes are soo clean!
its very nice!
The Trunk bag from Topeak looks very nice, too!
i like all that clean, clear installation, and its looks like a new Bike, or one, that was made to customize it this way!
-R

I recently got one of the Topeak trunk bags and my Headway 48 V 10Ah pack fits in with extra room. The Topeak bag I got also has the zip open side bags but they contain fold out panniers that really give you a lot more cargo room when needed.
http://www.modernbike.com/itemgroup.asp?IGPK=2126176145
see photo below of my setup

[Russell]

I recently got one of the Topeak trunk bags and my Headway 48 V 10Ah pack fits in with extra room.

That's good to know since the price of the 48V/10Ah Headway pack at EV Components is very tempting;

http://www.evcomponents.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=H4810



-R

[richmpdx]

Russell,

I am a newbie to ebikes but I have spent some time reading posts on E-S. I have been very impressed by the appearance and performance of the two ebikes builds you have described. You appear to have quite a knowledge about bikes and bike components. I have been considering a Kona Smoke as a good choice for a commuter ebike. I was interested that you immediately upgraded the drive system on your bike.

I am particularly interested in your reason for selecting front hub motors. I have read a fair amount of discussion about front versus rear hubmotor location. One reason for a front hub would seem to be convenience and not needing to disturb the existing drive system. But as you immediately replaced the derailleur and other parts, you obviously aren't intimidated by working on the drive system. As you appear to be avid cyclist and contributing a lot of pedal effort to your ebike, perhaps you don't want to change from a modern cassette cluster to an older free-wheel design? Issues about dishing the rim with a rear hubmotor? Any comments would be appreciated.

Rich

[Russell]

Rich,

Your post covers a lot of territory but first I’ll start with the bike selection and modifications to it. I picked the Kona Smoke 2-9 primarily because I wanted the steel frame and ability to run big tires. The main roads around here are fairly good but the secondary road system where I ride has seriously deteriorated over the past 20 years. Me and my bike can take quite a beating on some of these roads so I wanted something which would be smoother but still pedal efficiently. At the time I purchased the bike adding a motor was a secondary concern though that played some part in the selection process. I was contemplating building up a bike starting with a frame however a decent steel frame can easily run as much as the Kona Smoke so I went with the Smoke.

While the Kona Smoke gets good reviews at a list price of $425 it is an inexpensive bike as name-brand bikes go with low end components. The one gosh awful part that had to go right away was the crankset and bottom bracket. It’s not so much that the crankset is all steel but that the Q-factor, or distance between the pedals, is huge at about 180mm. I’m a spinner and I can not ride a bike with my legs splayed out like that. I also don’t see the need for a three rings up front, there’s way too much overlap. I replaced the crankset with a road triple from my Raleigh hybrid (the Kona was to replace the Raleigh) with a bashguard in place of the big ring, a steel FSA 39T chainring in the center position (steel because it would get 99% of the use) followed by a 26T small ring. I replaced the square semi-sealed bottom bracket with a 113mm ISIS cartridge and reduced the Q-factor to a nice low 155mm.

The Acera rear derailleur I swapped with the better Deore LX from my Raleigh (I planned to retire the Raleigh but later converted it to my first E-bike).

I swapped the stock 11-32 wide ratio 8 speed cassette for a closer ratio 12-30 custom cassette because I prefer less of a gap between gears.

The front derailleur I changed for a Deore LX model mainly because the original was pretty large and could have interfered with going to 60mm tires in the future.

The pedals had to go, they were junk and did not support clips and straps, a must have for me.

The seatpost I changed for a carbon model I already had for the greater setback and stronger clamp.

I changed the wimpy seatpost clamp for a big Surly Constrictor.

All of these changes made the Kona the bike I wanted. It turned out I was just as fast on the Kona as I had been on the Raleigh it replaced but with the steel frame and bigger tires at lower pressure it handled the bumps better.

Now why I did I choose a front motor over a rear? I like to ride and consider myself a decent cyclist having logged 2,700 miles in 2008 on regular bikes. I am 50 years old however and a little heavier than I’d like to be so sometimes it can get tough out on the road. I tend to push too hard especially on hills and often go into the red zone which could be tempting fate a bit. I had always wanted to try a motor (I’ve window shopped for a BionX for years) and since the Raleigh was just sitting there I figured why not. I wanted to keep the cycling experience however which for me meant a freewheeling lightweight motor. Since this was my first foray into electric bikes I didn’t want to spend a bunch only to find I made a big mistake. I found a complete Bafang kit on eBay so I went for it. The Bafang with a top end of 16.5 on lead and low 17 mph on lithium is just about the perfect assist motor. When powered by a lightweight rear rack mounted battery the front motor maintains the front/rear balance of the bike. Also since probably 90% of flats occur on the rear wheel the chances of having to deal with pulling off the motor wheel to change a flat out on some roadside diminishes greatly with a front motor.

After the Raleigh/Bafang bike was completed and I had been riding it for a while I wanted to tinker some more. I also wanted to try out one of those big direct drive motors it seems everyone else chooses. When E-BikeKit.com was closing out their rear Nine Continent motors I picked one up. I figured I’d kill two birds with one stone by being able to try out both a direct drive motor and rear drive at the same time. The 9C rear motor has a design problem however which makes it difficult to center the rim in the rear triangle. I did dish the wheel and bought a 5 speed freewheel and 5 speed shifter and modified a torque arm to fit and well I was pretty much all set to convert the Kona with the rear 9C. I changed my mind however when I realized how much rear weight bias the bike would have. I packed up the wheel and tossed it in the closet.

I was happy riding the Raleigh/Bafang especially after upgrading from SLA’s to Lithium in the form of three Bosch Fatpacks and yet I still wanted to find out how the DD motors performed for myself. Once again E-BikeKit was selling 9C kits cheap so I picked up a front motor wheel and an extra controller. I intended for this motor to go on the Kona Smoke but after installing it on the Raleigh my plans changed and instead I laced the Bafang to a new rim and installed it on the Kona.

After all this playing around I have come to the conclusion that for my riding style a small front geared motor is the perfect solution. I like the balance of the bike, the looks of the small motor and the freewheeling of the geared motor. On 36V the Bafang is a good little assistance motor and on 48V it delivers all the speed I want on a bike. I’m not sure what I’m going to do with the Raleigh w/front 9C motor which is redundant now that I have the Kona built up or the rear 9C motor that’s packed away. If I buy anything to replace the Bafang it will either be an eZee, a BMC or maybe the new geared motor from AmpedBikes.

-R

[richmpdx]

Russell,

Thanks for the long and thoughtful response. I appreciate your explanations for all of the choices. The basic decision of looking for something to assist, rather than replace pedaling is very also appealing to me. On the other hand, I am a 62 year-old, not so fit, not so accomplished bicyclist. I am located in Portland, OR and also have to deal with some fairly steep hills. So a geared hubmotor/freewheel like the Bafang or one of the other geared hubmotors looks like a reasonable choice. The non-conspicuous/stealth nature of the Bafang is very appealing. The subtle and clean way you have integrated the ebike components with the Smoke is an inspiration. I also am interested to find out details of the pending new Amped geared hubmotor. I will post my experiences as I get started on an ebike.

Thanks again for the info.

Rich

[dogman]

I know too well the consequences of over the handlebars. Still only about 50% back to normal after last summers trip over the bars with a waterbottle jammed in the front forks. But I really like my front wheel drive bikes on the road. The balance is very nice, and on road bikes, I don't hop a lot of curbs anyway. I think the front hubs in the mid to low range of wattage are safe enough, IF,,,, properly installed. The fit on the forks must be perfect. Anything less than perfect and the dropouts slowly pry open till the nut gets loose and the hub spins. Torque arms are a good idea, but I have 3900 safe miles without them and my axle nuts never get loose.

Lots of people complain about the handling after a big motor and big batttery go on the back of the bike. I find the balanced weight and the ability to power through corners with front wheel drive worth the risk of a front motor. I wouldn't want a 1000 watt front motor up front though. I have both a 350 watt gearmotor and a 700 watt direct drive , both front hub and love both. The 700 watt pulls up a hill much better of course, but that is a wattage advantage. The 350 watt gearmotor is very nice though, but just needs a stronger controller for climbing as fast as the 700 watt on the kind of hills I have on my daily ride. The gearmotor definitely gets up the hills, just slower is all.

On really rough, really steep dirt trails, the front hub is inferior, but too much weight on the back up steep hills means too many wheelies, so a triangle mounted battery becomes a must on a rear dirve dirt bike.

[Russell]

AN UPDATE

I’ve been riding my new Kona/Bafang E-bike just about every day and I really like it. After getting a baseline at 36V (41V) I added a 12V/9Ah SLA in series with the 6Ah LiMn tool packs for 54V peak. After a couple of fast rides for some thrills I settled down to using the throttle more conservatively.

This bike quickly became my favorite to ride after adding the SLA booster pack leaving the 9C equipped Raleigh to sit most of the time. To date the accumulated miles on the Bafang motor is 2,369 (3,790 km) with 909 of those put on when the motor was on my Raleigh and the rest racked up since it’s been on the Kona and most of that has been at 48V.

Something I was very happy about was that the motor did not exhibit the vibration under load that was apparent when it was mounted on the Raleigh. Some might say it’s the controller but I used this same model for a while on the Raleigh so I can only conclude it’s either the wheel build, though I did each myself using the same parts and pattern, or more likely it’s the super stiff straight front forks on the Kona compared to the slender, curved forks on the Raleigh. Whatever, it feels like a new motor.

I spoke prematurely here on the vibration issue, the only thing that bugs me about the Bafang motor I have. Within a couple of rides the vibration returned and no amount of spoke tightening would alleviate the problem. I tried re-lacing the wheel 1X instead of 2X but that made no difference. As it turns out the motor seems very sensitive to spoke tension, too little and it vibrates a lot, too much and it vibrates but not as much. I have yet to get the tension exactly right but it’s ok. Other than that it's been free of problems (knock wood) and running well.


I did move my residence in July and the area I'm in now has hills twice as steep as before. The Bafang has handled the steepest of them, about a 12% grade, albeit with a lot of pedaling. I'm sure glad I have the ebike here.


I converted and rode my first ebike early this year using a 36V/9Ah SLA pack that came with the Bafang kit. After just 20 cycles on those I switched to a battery pack made up of (3) 36V 2.2Ah LiMn Bosch Fatpack tool batteries then added a 12V SLA booster to that pack for 48V (54V peak). Now after 88 cycles on the Fatpacks I opted for a LiFePO4 battery. Today my 48V/10Ah LiFePO4 battery arrived from China but no it's not a Ping, it's a Baby-_-Mum purchased on eBay.

The battery uses 5Ah pouches and weighs 10 lbs 12.4 oz.

It is duct-taped with a plain BMS which is supposed to limit the current to 20A. My controller is 15A so no worries there.

The charger is supposed to be 60V 3A though the rating plate doesn't mention current. From the charge time however it seems likely to be 3A. It is very light and has a fan so it runs cool.


The price, and I have the distinction of paying the most for the 48V10Ah version, was $272 delivered, and it was delivered just 7.5 days afer the end of the auction. I wanted one sooner than later so I didn't play around, I just bid high. The very next battery went for almost 60 bucks less The eBay seller is no longer registered and I wonder what the story is there. I guess I won't be getting any support Time will tell if it was worth the $146 discount compared to a "Ping" ($418 delivered from his website).

48v10ah 006.jpg (88.45 KiB) Viewed 6690 times

I put the battery in a cardboard box for a little extra protection, added an in-line fuse holder, some Anderson connectors to the output wires and then taped it up. The charger went green after a few minutes indicating they must have fully charged it before shipping.

48v10ah 014.jpg (87.66 KiB) Viewed 6685 times

-R

[Russell]

Within minutes of getting the battery set for action I was on the road. This was going to be a short shakedown run over a familiar 18 mile course with the goal being to push hard and find any problems right away. I did want to limit capacity used to 5Ah of the 10Ah rating and at the end of the ride the Watts Up meter said I used 4.998 Ah! The trip average speed was a record for me and my Bafang at 20.8 mph compared to a best average speed of 20.1 mph with the 6Ah Fatpacks boosted by a 9Ah SLA (actual about 4.8Ah). The little 250W motor felt stronger throughout the ride and there wasn’t the big voltage drop-off near the end like with the Fatpack/SLA combo.

So after one ride I was satisfied. The only thing I didn’t see was any increase in top speed on the flats. While the LiFePO4 battery comes off the charger at 59.3V that top charge is burned off very quickly so that within minutes the battery is under 54V or about where the 36V LiMn Fatpacks + 12V SLA would start. The nearest level stretch is the first half-mile of a bike path I pick up 4 miles from home and on that I still got a top speed of approximately 23.5 mph.

After this first ride the battery charged back up in just under 2 hours. I left it on the charger for another 45 minutes after the indicator went green then went for another ride. This ride was to be a longer 31 mile route that I’ve done many times. The goal this outing was to pedal easier than usual and let the motor pick up the slack but I still wanted to at least match my normal 18.0 mph average speed for the route. Usually I have to conserve battery power on this route so I pedal moderately and use a light throttle on the fist 20 miles then pick up the pace the last 11 miles. With the extra capacity of the 10Ah battery I didn’t have to worry about running out a few miles from home which was a nice feeling. For this ride I averaged 18.7 mph and used 6.412 Ah. The average power used per mile was a gluttonous 10.5 Wh/mi compared to my usual 7.5 Wh/mi over the same route at 18.0 mph with the previous smaller pack. Power does corrupt


-R

[bikeelectric]

Russel,
I like how you put that plastic food container in your Topeak bag to take up the extra space. I carry my lunch to work in that space in a plastic container like that.
A few observations since I got my Cycle Analyst. On my 48V 10 AH Headway pack using Nine Continent motor, I can cruise between 26 to 28 MPH on flat or going up a moderate hill. My range is about 18 to 20 Miles with no pedaling and going full blast on the throttle. The other day I went for a much longer ride and kept the speed to bike trail cruising well under 20 MPH and I got 26 miles and 9.8 AH out of the pack before low voltage disconnected me.

[Russell]

Russel,
A few observations since I got my Cycle Analyst. On my 48V 10 AH Headway pack using Nine Continent motor, I can cruise between 26 to 28 MPH on flat or going up a moderate hill. My range is about 18 to 20 Miles with no pedaling and going full blast on the throttle. The other day I went for a much longer ride and kept the speed to bike trail cruising well under 20 MPH and I got 26 miles and 9.8 AH out of the pack before low voltage disconnected me.

What are your trip average speeds? The speeds I quote for a given distance are always the average speed shown on my computer for the entire ride.

Do you have a picture of the Headway pack in your Topeak bag?

The battery I purchased is a generic 1C type so nowhere near the class of the Headway but 48V/10Ah with a 15A controller is about all the Bafang can handle (see next post).

-R

[Russell]

Day 2 of Life with LiFePO4

Yesterday I got in two rides, an 18.4 mile fast ride using 5Ah and a second longer 31.2 mile ride using 6.4Ah. The battery handled those without a glitch therefore today I wanted to crank it up a notch to use somewhere between 7 and 8Ah of the battery’s rated 10Ah capacity.

I rode west further than normal out to a small city where I lived a couple of years ago. The ride there was great because I had a tailwind which of course is always nice…until you have to turn around and ride into it. I had only used 2.5Ah in 21 miles so I needed that headwind if I was going to use as much of the battery capacity as I wanted to. With a combination of more speed, more throttle and the headwind I ended up using twice the energy in the second half of the ride as the first. In the end the WU meter showed 7.486Ah (381.8Wh) consumed over the 41.4 miles at an average speed of 17.7 mph. The last 20 miles I used 5Ah which is over an average of 250W for the last hour. This is the hardest I’ve ever pushed the 36V 250W Bafang and it was definitely HOT. I could hold my hand on the motor but it was rather uncomfortable to do so for very long.

After 3 progressively longer rides the battery is looking good so far. Buying a generic battery with now no one at the other end to support it is risky so I'm keeping a battery log with all of the trip data. The thing I'm looking at most closely for these first cycles is the "minimum voltage" (Vmin). Thus far the Vmin has been 48.67V, 48.86V and 47.84V for the 5Ah, 6.4Ah and 7.5Ah rides respectively.

-R

[bikeelectric]

This is from my cycle analyst from the ride in to work this morning going full throttle and just about no peddling .
4.8 miles
max speed 30 avg speed 20
2.7 AH
137 watt hours
28 watts/mile

What are your trip average speeds? The speeds I quote for a given distance are always the average speed shown on my computer for the entire ride.

Do you have a picture of the Headway pack in your Topeak bag?

The battery I purchased is a generic 1C type so nowhere near the class of the Headway but 48V/10Ah with a 15A controller is about all the Bafang can handle (see next post).

-R

[Russell]

Today was another in a string of exceptionally nice days we've had this September but this is Wisconsin and that can change overnight so I figured a nice long ride was in order. I donned my lycra shorts instead of the usual baggies and grabbed two big water bottles. Just three miles out I hear BANG! and the back end drops. I stop and there's a puddle of green goo oozing from the flattened tire. I don't know what I ran over or if it was just something that was waiting to happen but looking at the gaping wound in the tire I knew this ride was over. I don't carry anything specifically to cope with a failure like this one because it's never happened before but I did have some electrical tape to reinforce the tire a little. Anyway I put the spare tube in and inflated it but I knew I couldn't ride it far like this so I started hoofing it home. After 1.5 miles I got tired of walking and figured I'd try riding it, and this is where the motor came in real handy. I got up on the pedals and leaned forward over the front wheel, unweighting the rear tire, and just motored home I'm sure I jinxed myself by stating in another post just a few days ago the tires were wearing very well after 1,400 miles. Oh well now I can order those new Schwalbe Supremes

Kona 033.jpg (82.54 KiB) Viewed 1860 times

-R

[WonderProfessor]

I am no expert on tires, but from the appearance of that tire, if you had run over some object that caused that rupture, you would have either seen what you run over. That looks like a failure with the tire itself.

[StudEbiker]

Russell, do you have a thread on that power switch you built? That looks really sweet. I need to make something like that for the 9c kit, and that looks perfect.

[Russell]

I am no expert on tires, but from the appearance of that tire, if you had run over some object that caused that rupture, you would have either seen what you run over. That looks like a failure with the tire itself.

I think you're right about that and in a way I would better if it was a tire failure than if it was caused by a road hazard. I rode the identical route on my second ebike right after the incident and again today and didn't see anything, or hit anything, in the road that could cause it. The tire was fully inflated too so it would be hard for an object to rip the tire open like that while riding down a suburban street.

I can't find an exact replacement for the Continental City Contact 700x47 so I'll buy two new tires. I'm going to hate shelling out $100 for a pair of Schwalbe Supremes but I want them

-R

[Russell]

Russell, do you have a thread on that power switch you built? That looks really sweet. I need to make something like that for the 9c kit, and that looks perfect.

No but I talked about it here;

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9407&start=15#p163313


-R