Brushless controller tuning modifications

[MrKang]

I am wondering what the possibilities are to tune up your brushless controller.

there is: - more voltage - shunt modification - ...

is it also possible to increase the PWM clock ? so it makes more rotations ? like a brushed controller ?

I have a Electric scooter 48V800W which i upgraded to 15S6P lipo pack.
It first came with a lead-acid pack of 48/20Ah which i replaced for a lifepo4 48/20Ah pack with BMS

Now i am experimenting to go to 16S6P toget higher speeds.

any help or succesfull modifications are welcome on a brushless controller.

[MrKang]

Yesterday i purchased a 72/1500W contoller on ebay. I think i will experiment on that.





are there some limits for the brushless motor ? it is a 48V/1000 W motor

[MrKang]

3 days and my controller will arrive.
Here in the pictures you can see my setup with my Lipo batteries.
I first configured a 12S6P in the white box and then made a 5S6P pack which is positioned in a notebook sleeve for now. and put those two in serie to eventually get 62.9 Volt out of them.

[fechter]

Aside from more voltage and more current, there's not much on the controller you can tweak to get more out of the motor. You could possibly advance the timing, but if you go too far, the efficiency drops too much. Changing the gear ratio might do something for you. If you increase the voltage, but also gear it a bit lower, the top speed may be nearly the same, but you'll have much more torque.
You will also be limited by the motor heating, so the motor could be more of a limiting factor than the controller.

What kind of motor does it have?

[MrKang]

Hi fetcher, it's a electric scooter with a 48V/ 0.8KW hub-motor.

[MrKang]

Finally my new 72V conroller arrived at work with DHL.
can't wait for tommorrow to install it.

only i have one question.

there is no schematicdiagram so i asked the supplier fo it. and you can choose a phase of 60 or 120 degrees

how do i know which phase i use on my scooter ? can i measure that? i have a digital scope meter with 2probes

te 'cruise' wire is that the auo cruise which you can turn of or on by grounding it?

there is a alarm connector....what d i do with that ? can i leave that unconnected ?

[fechter]

Most motors like yours are 120 deg.
One way to tell the phase configuration of your motor would be to power up the existing controller (or disconnect the hall sensors and feed them with a 9v battery), then measure the 3 signal wires. A 60 deg. motor will have some positions where all 3 signals are low where and all 3 are high. A 120 deg motor will never have more than two at a time high or low. When measuring, move the wheel (motor) from one 'cog' to the next and make measurments at each cog. The pattern will repeat after 6 cogs with most motors.

As far as the rest of the wiring, I would guess it's like the 'Infineon' controllers. Other than the alarm and cruise functions, the connections look pretty straightforward. Do NOT assume it will work properly if you match the colors on the motor phase and hall sensor wires. Test with the wheel off the ground and try to measure the battery current or somehow limit it when testing. A wrong configuration will either draw excessive current or not start by itself from some positions (or run backwards).
It is highly likely you may need to go though the trial-and-error process to correctly match the controller to the motor.

It's possible you may be able to use the same programming interface to change the controller's programmable settinings.

[MrKang]

thanks fetcher for your advice. I will update my results after tomorrow.

[MrKang]

ok.. this morning i connected the new conroller. at first i saw that the throttle wiring was different so i switched 2 wires on the connector.
Than i connected the Yellow/Green/Blue wires to the motor and the hall sensor connector which was identical with the original one.





I tested it first with a 62V lipo pack (22.2+22.2+18.5) 4Ah






This is the result ...i don't know if my voltage was good but at a moment the motor stopped for some reason..and i'm not happy with the sound...it ain't smooth...a little bit more resonance noise came out of it.. can you look at the video and hear if this is normal ? I allready tried to switch the yellow phase connector but when i did that the motor wouldn't even spin. so i left it open, i think it's now in the 120 degrees mode.



i tried it also with a extra pack of 14.8 in serie which gave me 77V
again that sounded the same. i noticed that when i have the throttle at let's say 40% and you want to go higher the motor goes slower..like it's not happy in phase..what could be the problem ?

If not..should i experiment with different combinations on the hall sensor wiring ?

This is the sound with the original controller

[dnmun]

i did not understand why you bot a new controller anyway. why not just upgrade the original controller to run at 72V?

your new controller looks like an ecrazyman infineon controller.

your original controller set up for 48V would have run at 63V too.

[fechter]

I'd guess the halls need to be rearranged.
See this thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3484&start=0

[Hafting]

Consider thicker wires. From battery to controller, and from controller to motor. Less losses and more efficient.

[MrKang]

I did some switching with the phase wires and hall wires with the column from fetcher.
And at one time it was perfect !!! ...only backwards..

After more combinations i finally had the correct one ! yeeha! happy man!

tomorrow i'm replacing the old one with the new one.



thanks fetcher!

[dnmun]

post up the connections in the 'known to work wiring' thread too. do you know the name of the new controller? not from ecrazyman?

[MrKang]

post up the connections in the 'known to work wiring' thread too. do you know the name of the new controller? not from ecrazyman?

where can i find this thread ?

If i look at both objects in ebay then i can say they are the same...e-crazy and my controller.

[MrKang]

After a succesful tweak with the controller i'm starting to setup my battery configuration.
As you can see here below my plan is first to have a 21S6P config for driving.
I have all parts together to connect all balancing cables together and therefor have a more reliable pack.
Also it gives me the oppertunity to charge them with my 3 lipo balancers at once instead of 6 times when they are all single connected.

I will update with more pictures. yesterday i just finished the 6P board for my 14.8V pack. it all worked well. tonight i'm doing the 18.5 board.

[MrKang]

I opened up my controller to see what's inside and which FET's are used.



As you can see, they are P75N75 type of fet's: now my question is..should i upgrade them with he IRF type which can handle 100V ?
My lipo's will give 77.7V on nominal load. But fully charged i think it wil be arround 85V. Can this do harm to the P75N75 Fet's?



Also i soldered the shuntwires a bit to get a bit more power.On the picture you see i didn't do it yet..but now i soldered it halfway over.





The Flashrom which is used can be programmed i think..i looked at topic : http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7361#p110932
and this controller look a lot like an infineon controller. Is it possible to read out the settings ?



Or can you only dump a new setting to it not knowing which parameters it had programmed on it ?
Yesterday i had finished the balance boards for all my lipo's. i allready tested it on my lipo charger.
Now i can charge them as a whole unit instead of charging them piece by piece.
Next weekend i'm gonna switch the new controller with the old one and let you know if there is any improvement in speed etc.

[dnmun]

other people have run the 75fn75 at 72V lifepo4. i had 90.6V on them for a few seconds, no load.

i think you should try it and if they blow up then go to 4110s.

[MrKang]

Hi dnum, i will test it first on my 77.7 lipo setup..i think this will be ok.

I just received my t-connecors from italy. 20F + 20M with heatsinktubes (dunno the name in US) they were only 15,40 euro!


Then i will make all neccesary cables to parralel all my 22.2V lipo's. I allready did the 14.8 and the 18.5 including balance wires.
I now can easily charge them with one lipo balancer instead of 2 times each 3 pieces. So that's a real progress in charging time.

Tonight i will desolder my 22.2 lipo's which were connected in serie. Because i want them also to be wired on the balance connectors in parralel
it's safer to not do that in serie mode. i allready had a litle bang on on of the T-connectors (14.8 and 18.5) when i wanted to connect them in serie while the balance wires were connected parralel. So now each lipo stack will be seperately be connected and finally i all connect them in series.

Yesterday i pulled out the DC/DC convertor to see what's inside. Because of the higher voltage i'm gonna use i don't want a broken DC convertor while riding and then suddenly my lights go off.



As you can see it's rated for 48 to 60 volts.



When i took a closer look on the input wire i saw that there was one capacitor with a value of 63V.



I removed that one and replaced it for a 400V 100uF which i desoldered from a old AC/DC power supply.
Than i tested it with some lipo's and measured the amperes. it could take 85 volts now and it draw on no load aprox. 20ma
I will continue tommorow when i replace the controller and take it for a test drive.
I will check my lipopack with a 6S wireless lipo checker i bought from hobbycity. that's a nice gadget i can implant later on my dashboard of the scooter.



Here tested with a 3S lipo

I will make a video and have a GPS measurement while driving for actual speed.
This is my GPS setup. i planned to use both devices. One is a WinCE5.0 running Igo8.0 and the other one is a GPS alert gadget.
I will try to film it with my Kodak Zi6 pocket cam


keep you updated

[dragonfire]

great project, i will read over this thread again when having more time this evening.

i like the homebreed pack connectors but would liek to check more details about the actual balancing ( or is it in the packs?), this wireless battery monitor is pretty nice, too.


some short questions ahead:

can you name the yource of the italian t-connectors, please ?
The 750 watt bosch motor you are running on 48 volts, which model is it (is it of a MZ Charly and if so, how is the result on it of 48v and without the stock e-box´es "speed governor" )?

as for overvolting these 800 watt scooters, the next version should be a "gecko "( aka Yasea/ China, but these are ok quality and available on ebay up from like 250€ with degraded batterie but few use only)-scooter with 1500 watts stock.

take care, everything over 0.2ah and 50 volts can end up leathal.

About the old planning of another old thread, i bounced the buildup of the formerly 250 watts unite-powered scooter but still intend to upgrade the pocketbike, but this will be a rather unspectacular project and the motor mount is still undefined (unite 1000 watts motor on ecrazyman 36v 800 watt controller + 7 x 6v10ah sla´s and for recharge a oldstyle goped hoverboard charger (the hardtire hoverboards came stock with 4x6v batteries in series);
- do you know if ecrazyman has a website other than the ebay-shop to check for the controller you have there and maybe a 1000w version for that project ? )


you really got bite by the electric bug

[MrKang]

can you name the yource of the italian t-connectors, please ?
Just looked it up again and he is on vacation or stopped selling it...on ebay it is in italian language..
but i found one which is even a bit cheaper in hongkong on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.nl/SOLAR-Deans-Style-T-Plug-Connectors-10pair-Lipo-T-plug_W0QQitemZ130339210263QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRadio_Control_Vehicles?hash=item1e58d28417

The 750 watt bosch motor you are running on 48 volts, which model is it (is it of a MZ Charly and if so, how is the result on it of 48v and without the stock e-box´es "speed governor" )?

It's a MZ Charly and after upgrading it with a 36V controller with 44.4 Lipo power it will blow you off your saddle when you hit that throttle at once!!


as for overvolting these 800 watt scooters, the next version should be a "gecko "( aka Yasea/ China, but these are ok quality and available on ebay up from like 250€ with degraded batterie but few use only)-scooter with 1500 watts stock.

take care, everything over 0.2ah and 50 volts can end up leathal.

I used to be a electronics repair engineer....i like voltages beween 220 and 15KV...hehehe

About the old planning of another old thread, i bounced the buildup of the formerly 250 watts unite-powered scooter but still intend to upgrade the pocketbike, but this will be a rather unspectacular project and the motor mount is still undefined (unite 1000 watts motor on ecrazyman 36v 800 watt controller + 7 x 6v10ah sla´s and for recharge a oldstyle goped hoverboard charger (the hardtire hoverboards came stock with 4x6v batteries in series);
- do you know if ecrazyman has a website other than the ebay-shop to check for the controller you have there and maybe a 1000w version for that project ? )

I bought the controller at ebay http://stores.shop.ebay.nl/Mini-Bike-Atv-Quad-Scooter-Parts__W0QQ_armrsZ1

you really got bite by the electric bug

Thanks for following my project!

[dragonfire]

is there a thread about your charly-conversion, too ?
i am mostly interrested in a good onboard charger and a "proven-working" choice about the drive controller and maybe needed new throttle.

just courious, did you try to find a taller motor sproket for that motor ( and where able to locate one ) ? It allready spinds pretty high at 25 Km/h so the way to more speed seems to enclose that option, too ? at least, id i decide to run your combo using the 12v 14ah batteries, what kind of range can one expect approximately ? as these controllers restrict maximum ampere draw at pretty low levels i could get a standard lipo pack with builtin balancer for these most likely and which charger would you recommend for a onboard-device ?

I am about to go to barcelona for some months but would not take the charly with me as it´s too slow and get a Yasea-Scooter instead 8 and self-upgrde that setup to lifepo), but if i can upgrade the charly easily and "hidden" this(foldable and uncushioned little gem ( the Charly) will come with me to there as for an evening-hours project.

[MrKang]

is there a thread about your charly-conversion, too ?.

I have it documented on here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10110

I used the same motor and sprocket. only upgraded the controller to 36V with modifications and the batteries to 44.4 Lipo (12S6P)
I still have tocharge the lipo's with a balancer. so i haven't got a simple charge plug. i still have to carry out the Lipo pack and charge it at home.

Good luck upgrading !

[MrKang]

This morning i started to combine all my 22.2V lipo's onto two 6P packs.
My working table like all hobbiest....messy

All packs desoldered , becaue they were first connected two in serie. and now i had to make them single again.

Then made 2 packs of 6P

I made the 6S balance boards

and then connected and tested the min-max voltage between the lowest and highest cell.

pack 1

and pack 2

also checked the 18.5 pack


so with all 4 packs i'm ready to build them in...didn't know if it will fit the coverseat...

They all fitted well. did a short test and noticed that the controller shutsdown.
i think the voltage was to high because of the fully loaded lipo's
the total voltage was almost 90Volts...so i removed my smallest pack of 14.8V
Which resulted in a total of 72 volts.

I went for a little test run and noticed the torque power and the acceleration!
Wow...but when i wanted to test the speed it stopped around 46km/h
The controller shuts down momentarely and then i could drive again.

it's like if the voltage was dropped because of the power it took form the lipo's
didn't tested that.. but i think when you have full power out of those lipo's
the voltage goes down to (22 + 22 + 18 = 62V) maybe even lower...that's why the controller
cuts of the power to protect it.

Is there a way to avoid that auto shut down ? Can i set the LVC to a lower point ?
I looked at the infineon thread howto do that but my PCB is not simmilar to that one.

I will give it another spin tommorrow .then i will retry it with all the packs.
I discharged the 14.8 pack so that the total output of all four will not be too high.

Keep you posted.

[MrKang]

Well this morning i placed the 14.8V pack and the controlelr could handle the voltage now. it didn't shutdown
even at high speeds it didn't. my top speed for this morning was 52km/h because i didn't have my helmet on. so i was a bit affraid if the police went by.
I will take it this afternoon for another spin to see what the maximum speed will be.

But for now...i'm very satisfied !