Fisher and Paykel motors

[Thud]

Alright,
I found a Us distributer who caters to the windmill crowd. $95.00 + shipping for a new motor kit in the photo (no bearings or supports as its a wind mill kit) Very prompt reply to my e-mails & very knowlegable fellow.

If any one can't wait for a scrapper, here is what you get for your money:

shipping to me in the midwest was quoted at $18.00 (way tempting!)

here is the website i found it at:
http://www.randysworkshop.com/

[amberwolf]

A thought percolating in my subconcious popped up yesterday waving it's arms, and I managed to remember to ask (a miracle):

For those that have closely examined these motors, do the well-used ones exhibit any signs of stress cracking at the bases of each stator pole, below the copper?

It might not even happen in the washing machine use, but given the loads and weight of water, I would expect it eventually could, if it were going to. However, using them in vehicle motors, especially as hub-motors/direct drive, there may be even more stress along those points. Being plastic, I'm curious if any of them are being waggled back and forth as the magnets go round and the fields are applied to the windings.

I don't know how far in the metal core goes--if it is only a small core in the middle of each individual copper winding set, instead of a laminate ring containing all the poles, it won't do any load-spreading.

It might not even matter, but my brain tickled me with the question, and now I am itching for the answer.

[scootinmad]

Hi I have been playing with F&P motors for a while,they are a great motor.I have modified 0.6/0.8 and 1mm motors good result with 0.6/0.8 versions.i have run motors @60volt with standard magnets with good power and speed on a BMX style bike with 6 gears to choose from.I have also rewound a motor from scratch,multi strand 0.6 mm wire,have only bench tested motor so far real good RPM with heaps of power.I need to get some NEO magnets to finish off motor.thanks scootinmad.

[F&P]

Excellent, someone else has also played with these F&P for EV motors.
That multi strand rewinding is what I have wanted to do also, would love to hear how it goes, and a great job on rewinding.

I highly recommend going for the neo magnet conversion as it feels like 4 times the magnetic strength. When using them as a turbine I gained 3 times the power compared to ferrites, and also noticed a big difference as an EV motor comparing the two.
The picture in Thuds message looks like it has Neos anyway, but only around 3mm which would be better than the 6mm ferrites, but also means you couldnt use 6mm neos on that rotor, only the older ones.

A BMX is a little machine, have you tested it with a decent load and or direct drive as I got great power directly driving a 27" wheel on a bike also in previous pics on this thread, and you might have seen the vidoes of my EV car with the BMX wheel directly driven and with decent weight will wheel spin very easy.

What is the Amp rating of your controller you have you used??,

I am running 48A at 48V, but can go up to 72V and higher. Will soon try a 18Fet controller.

Are you based in Australia?

The stators do crack a bit, but don't tend to get worse.

By the way Thud, that is a good deal especially the shipping.

Please tell me your thoughts anyone on this video of a wheel spin in reverse and forwards with F&P, does that compare to a X5 hub motor, better or worse????? By the way it still reaches over 40kph.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFvnUxPbOTQ

sideview.JPG (79.29 KiB) Viewed 1236 times

aaCopy of side1.JPG (51.75 KiB) Viewed 1237 times

F&P
Matt

[drewjet]

These are indeed very interesting motors. I had looked into them a while back ago.

Your car looks much like our electrathons. Do you have any performance/effecincy numbers yet?

[F&P]

I have no real figures yet for efficiency etc, but these will come soon.
I can say that the 12fet infineon controller at 48V / 48Amps really seems to work well with this motor and seems to be putting out amazing power.

Did you check the youtube link as it shows the potential of these motors.

48V x 48Amp = 2304 x .8(eff) = 1843 motor output, and I feel it could be even higher than 1843. Would love to get it on a dynp if anyone knows of any around melbourne for testing bikes etc.

Does anyone know the approx drag co-effcient of the fairing I built??

Frontal area is 70cm x 55cm = .385 sq M. I will be putting a low aero dynamic perspex roof also and streamlining the edges etc.

F&P
Matt

[amberwolf]

You could do a coastdown test and get a fair approximation. I don't remember the math for drag coefficients, but I bet a quick google on the terms will find them.

[amberwolf]

Anything new yet? Or did the weather melt it?

[docnjoj]

Try this for Cd.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_coefficient

otherDoc

[F&P]

Yes it is all going very well and have given it a few good runs with the fairing.
The cheap crappy front wheelchair wheels are not handling the load well and I have been given some good steel wheel chair wheels to use but the hub if different.

Controller gets bloody hot at 49amps but I often am testing it at full throttle drawing a cont 48A. The 18Ah batts are also not giving much range as you could expect so they will be changed to Lithiums soon. Has anyone got any second hand 48V lithiums for sale in OZ????

Been testing some 1000W hub motors and they really don't compare to the F&P. Will try a 18Fet infineon controller soon at 100Amps / 72V to see how it really goes.

Matt

[liveforphysics]

48V x 48Amp = 2304 x .8(eff) = 1843 motor output, and I feel it could be even higher than 1843. Would love to get it on a dynp if anyone knows of any around melbourne for testing bikes etc.

If you get the bike on a dyno, make sure you find a dirtbike dyno. Most of the full size dyno's I work with have a margin of error +-1hp or so, which would yeild really poor results for testing something in the 2-3hp range.

[enoob]

uh oh . look what i found curb side this morning. walking the boys to school , garbage day and low and behold its a fisher paykel washer sitting with the trash. after a quik chat to ensure it was garbage i rescued it to my wifes dismay.



consider the pm on the way F&P . i wanna do this right.

ive got a 48v 200amp kelly just waiting to burn up some windings

castle creations 34v 100amp to play with as well.

should prove a good distraction while i wait for some other crap i orderd

[amberwolf]

Cool curb find! Vrooooommmm...

[liveforphysics]

That motor is begging to have about twice the amount of copper on it...

[AussieJester]

I forgot to post here about the news on the F&P motors, i informed enoob of the dilema week ago, my mate indeed has countless washers at his work and has dropped up a Fisher & Paykel motor for me to check out, UNFORTUNATELY the 'Washers" he always tells me he fixes i assumed were clothes washers are in fact they are dish washes, my bad...the motors in them are exactly like the one enoob pictured above and there is literally dozens of them at his work BUT hes the catch hehe they are about 1/4 the size of the washing machine fisher & paykel motors... I have it here if you want pics i showed enoob the pics and we agreed they are too small for our application

KiM

p.s MAKE IT PISS enoob

[enoob]

Cool curb find! Vrooooommmm...

thought you may like that amber got me on the lookout now that i know there locally available. it even has a whirlpool part number - 8565177 for the rotor 8565170 for the stator. the washer had no bottom so i could tip it over curbside and saw the motor staring back at me . owner said power outage and it no worky anymore, complained about parts having to come from newzealand and a new one was cheaper than fixing it nice to see these are around.

That motor is begging to have about twice the amount of copper on it...

Your not kidding . just measured and counted the winding. caliper says .8mm and i can count 30 turns on the outer layer 3 possible 4 layers per stator pole.
boy howdy itd be fun to fill it with fatter stuff. well , not fun to do it but fun to have it )

p.s fillin her full of beer and piss she shall

[Thud]

I live in the wrong neighborhood i guess....great pick up Enoob.
(i suspect there are a few more of us dumpster divers here....they are just to preppy to brag about it! )
I need to look a little harder in the apliance bone yards when the day comes i want to play with a F&P.
looking foward to your exploits EN.

[12p3phPMDC]

speaking of dumpster diving, my last curbside find was a 4x4 timber...nothing special at first....
turns out it was 1/4 sawn Oak. Hard, Excellent shape, no nails..... worth about 20 to 30 bucks, if you can even find 1/4 sawn in ABQ.
When I jumped out of my truck to throw it in the back people were giving me all sorts of dirty looks

[AussieJester]

March is the strart of our bi-annual curbside collection in the Shire, last for a month or so in the different
suburbs will be out in force as usual, if i see any Fisher & Pykal washing machines i shall have the buddy hall them into the ute

KiM

[enoob]

hee hee the castle spins it, this is 24v . ill have to redo what i did in this video to get data as i had not cleared the full log before trying this. ill try that later tonight.


now on to the kelly.

the motor has a hall board built in and i was hoping to use it but it seems the kelly dont like it so ill have to install some halls that i picked up for the "other" motor

on close inspection it seems the halls that came with the motor have a circuit board with all sorts of things going on . i suspect to deal with ac power or control method its built for .

[F&P]

Hi Guys,

Heres the PM I sent to enoob.

Yes that sounds like the newer generation motor at .6mm.
How may coils??

You will find that it is designed for high voltage and very low amps at about 1.5A if used as a alternator.

I don't think it will go very well as is but maybe worth a try but it won't draw any usable current at 48V as it is designed to run at much higher voltages.

You will need to re-confugre the windings for high amps & low volts by cutting the wires and re-grouping them as parallel. Meaning all phase 1 coils are in parallel with each other and so on for the other 2 phases.
I just cut every wire between coils and mark them left and right, and then put every left wire of phase 1 soldered onto a ring of heavy copper wire. Do that until you have 3 rings covering all phases.
I keep it simple and use just star, not delta, this means that you can solder all other right wires from all phases to another seperate ring.

This will change everything and should work well with a brushless controller.
The halls are easy to wire in:
Black is Neg and Purple is Pos, the rest are for each phase and you might have to try different combinations to get it working properly like any brushless motor.

I also find that the ferrite magnet rotor is not up to it and I popped them all out and replaced with 56 neo magnets giving 3 times the strength, but another guy has had good results with the standard rotor magnets.

The neos really kick ass over the standard ferrites.

There is also a picture in this thread on about pg 3 that shows a F&P stator that has been completely rewound with stands of thin copper per wire if that makes sense, this would be the best way to go but looks like a lot of work.

Now that someone else is using these motors as I have, they might be able to work out the hall sensor location as I feel they are wrong as it still has more power in reverse.
By moving them towards the centre of the coils it works better.

The standard hall sensor board should work fine as I have used them with about 4-5 different controllers and they all worked well.

See my previous posts to see pics of the beast.

Seperate Question:
I have purchased a 1000W Golden looking motor with a 12Fet controller that looks very similar to the 12Fet Infineon:
It works well and I have soldered the shunt and now getting 50amps instead of the standard 26Amps and the controller barely gets warm, even after some hard hill climbing, but the motor does get hot after 5 to 10 minutes, but still can touch. I am using my solar car 18Ah SLA batteries also which weigh a ton and it still does not get hot.

I would have expected the controller to get hot with 50amps, I now feel i should go for 60A if this is the case. The Kit cost me under $100US from an un-known company, and i am testing it for friends who want some, and so far I am very happy.

Good luck enood.

Matt

[aussiewatt]

Hi Guys,

I am looking for used F&P smartdrives. Any quantity required on an ongoing basis, will pay for them offcourse. They must be complete. I am located in Sydney, contact me via email or reply. Thanks.

[only1jake]

I am getting one of these motors soon. Should be great fun. I'm going to be doing this over the summer, a summer project. And I would be interested to know where I can source the right NEO magnets and which ones you used F&P, this would be great help?
Do I go about rewinding it like it says here: http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/FPRewire.asp
The same for a windmill, low volts high amps>?
Thanks,
Jake S

[zt3]

@ F&P: What is the grade of the neodymium magnets you used for your rotor? What are the dimensions per piece?

[zt3]

Does anyone here knows the pinouts of the F&P sensor board? I bought this as a spare part at Fisher and Paykel to be used for my EV project so I have no idea what pins go to Vcc, Ground, sensor 1, sensor 2, sensor 3. And does sensor 1 correspond to power lead for phase 1, sensor 2 to phase 2, etc.?

A =
B =
C =
D =
E =