Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

[Metallover]

First off, I will be asking some questions as I assemble and progress on the bike, so I hope this is the right section to post this in.

I am starting my first bike build. I already purchased most of the parts. Highlights are 26" 9c rear hubmotor, 12fet ecrazyman controller, and 6 turnigy packs for 15ah 44v or 10ah 67v. I hope to have all the stuff by the end of the month, but the batteries might take longer. I used the slow shipping fom hobbycity.

Here is the bike I am converting. I am in the process of beefing it up and getting it ready for electrification. Any suggestions welcome.



After I ordered all my stuff from hobbycity, I realized I didn't have enough 6s balance connectors. I have lots of 4s and 2s connectors so I just made a couple 6s out of those. This is the 6p adapter I came up with.








lol


And here is a picture of my charging station. The power supply is a.. oh.. A weak 172w Astro unit and the charger is a 250w hyperion EOS0610i. It's capable of charging 6s packs at 10a, but I guess my PS isn't. I never looked into the PS wattage before.

At any rate I atached a fan from my computer (zip tied a new fan to the heatsink) to lower the temps.






I am getting a turnigy watt meter for data, and I have a gps, but the watt meter only goes up to 60v. It won't work if I do 67v. I'll have to stay with 44v now; maybe I'll get a CA.

Also on the future list is the ever popular delta/wye mod. I've looked for some time now, and I figure I'll need 3 spdt relays rated for 24v, ~50a; am I right? And do you just run a switch to the relays or do you need a voltage source?

[hydro-one]

Looks Great so far !!! You will love 18s,crazy fast!!! I would upgrade the fork and brakes!!!
Be careful with the packs, make sure you have LVC (cell level) set up properly, I puffed a cell first ride, went too low- pack may have not been charged fully etc etc ....

Get ready for the EV GRIN

Mike
9c rm switch/zippy

[Metallover]

Thanks man!

I will have a lvc by the time I get it all together. I'll either have a BMS by then or I'll use my trusty battery monitor from my scooter-





Here is how it works
Solid blue light - 3.7+ volts/cell
Flashing blue - 3.4-3.7v
Solid red light - 3.3-3.4v
Red & buzzer - <3.3v

When I was testing the range of the scooter it usually hit the cutoff pretty hard. It would be flashing blue and then it would start buzzing red under acceleration. When I'm using my bike I'll just start pedaling when it buzzes. Lipo cells will be ok as long as they aren't discharged under 3.0v/cell or charged over 4.2v/cell.

[dnmun]

gary talks about 4.15V as a better prime number for lipo.

dr bass used the same frame and has a diagram showing how to create the template for the under frame box to hold the pouches. he figured the fork travel into it. but i don't think he had the shock in front. depends on how much and when you pedal too. for the location of the pouches that is.

[johnrobholmes]

Sounds like an awesome build! It will be more comfy than the bmx.

[Metallover]

Thanks for the responces!

Today I tuned up the front brakes and put duct tape on the inside of the tire and on the outside of the tube. Duct tape solved a chronic flat tire problem with my ole bmx, so I hope it will fare well with e-bike use too.

What should I do for tire pressure? The walls say 35-60psi.. Should I go for max? Over? Under? Right now I have 'em at 50psi.

[hydro-one]

Oh ! neat battery monitor....Looks good, another thing I would do is get some new pedals......I mean you can ride with those but..,,,, I like solid platforms with lots of pins (kona jackshit)- coupled with a good skate shoe (VANs). For the price its a great upgrade . Then youll feel real solid on the bike. Oh yeah and a good helmet--full face? not trying to be a sissy, but yer gonna be flying on that thing ....

Cheer!

Mike RM switch/9c/ zippy

[Metallover]

These are the pedals that came with the my General Lee bmx bike (I think). I think I'll swap em out. The pedals on the bike now have some real bike but these black ones will look better and they are bigger.



You aren't the first person who has suggested a full face helmet. I will keep an eye out for one on craigslist and I'll ask around. It will be good for keeping the cold wind off my face in the cold months too.

I don't know if I would like wearing a helmet that large, but it might be best. Does this look like any good? How much are these helmets worth?

http://sd.craigslist.org/mcy/1528910097.html

[chvidgov.bc.ca]

I have this bike too, with a Rear 9C 7 speed freewheel 11 tooth cog. I recommend switching to an Avid BB7 disk brake on the front. It is much better than the Promax. You will probably have to sacrifice the rear disk without a lot of custom work and go to a Vbrake, although I gather it has been done with a rear motor. You can put a front rack on the bike to haul gear. The Axiom seatpost rack is good, with triangular bracing from the seatpost up to the rack a la Dogman style. I used conduit from a derelict folding camping chair. The larger 26x2.35? Big Apple is nice on the back and just barely fits. The existing shifter (8 speed) will work with 7 speeds using 2-8 but not 1-7 of the shifter so you can keep that.

Chris

[Metallover]

Thanks for the info! I'll look into those items.

I was trying to get one of the pedals off the crank arms (of the new black ones) and it's siezed on there pretty good. I almost ruined a crecent wrench trying to get it off. I'll keep my eye out for a 15mm wrench then I'll get er off and install them on the blackcomb.

[johnrobholmes]

I suspect you already know, but one pedal is reverse threaded. You can put the wrench on and pedal forward to remove them both. I think it may be the left one that is reversed.

[Metallover]

I suspect you already know, but one pedal is reverse threaded. You can put the wrench on and pedal forward to remove them both. I think it may be the left one that is reversed.

Lol. I've taken off pedals before, but I forgot about that.

Thanks!

[johnrobholmes]

I have seen it happen many times before, so I figured I would mention it


I was taught how to install and remove the pedals by moving the cranks, so I am never confused. Pedal backwards to install, pedal forwards to remove. A few hundred bike builds later and it hasn't failed me yet

[Metallover]

Thanks for the tip! I definately need some work in bicycle maintenance; I lesson down, hundreds more to go.

These new pedals look awesome compared to the old ones. They are nothing compared to some high end magnesium pedals, but they do have a nice physique. And no I don't have a pedal fetish. (and if I did it wouldn't be as bad as the old hand fetish at rcm!)



Look at this old crap --->






I tried some small scale brake testing and my front brakes are weak.. If the weather gets nice (20f sounds pretty good right now; I'd take that over -20f any day!) I'll go outside for the higher speed brake testing and decide if I really need those Avid breakes.

[biohazardman]

I have the cheap Hayes MX4 cable pull disk brakes on my bike. I upgraded the rotors 8 inch everything else is stock. I cruise at thirty and they have stopped me on a dime for the last 400 miles thus far. Clean the rotors up, lube and adjust the cables, adjust the pads run them a few miles drag them now and then and stop hard and see if they don't get better. I would guess they will. If not then better replace them as your life depends on good brakes.

[Metallover]

I got my hubmotor today!

It came with some assorted goodies, but no controller or battery yet. Big thanks to Methods!

Along with a motor comes questions. One one side of the axle, there is more space then the other. Is that the side the freewheel goes on?

What are the gold-colored metal plates that came on each side of the wheel? Are those torque arms?

And finally, is there a certain direction the motor has to turn? I would assume it's bisexual, but you never know.







My hobbycity order left china on the 12th, and my controller left china on the 13th. I hope both show up the first week of February.

[biohazardman]

e-bikekit has a few pics that should help you out although I did not find any rear specific install instructions. Several pics should be enough to get you by.

http://www.e-bikekit.com/shop/index.php ... 6&parent=4

You do need a thick washer on the inside of your dropouts though for sure. I had to spread my rear triangle slightly, on both of my bikes with different motors, to accommodate the washers. Without them, the small diameter of the axle will bite into your frame and loose the nuts causing the axle to spin and major damage can result. Gold plates are torque arms meant to screw to the dropouts somewhere convenient. I have seen the other silver toque arm but thought it was front only if memory serves.

Put grease on the threads of your hub before installing the freewheel or any disk brake adapter that goes there.
You might want to be sure that the large nuts supplied are flat and 90 deg to the threads, you will see them wobble when you spin them if they are not, else replace them with a good quality SS and lock washer or nylock/aircraft locknut. They will not stay tight if they wobble. Do not over tighten the nuts or you can break your dropouts but do check them often to see they are where you put them. A line drawn with a good paint pen or marker will let you know at a glance if they are where you put them.

[Metallover]

I got a note yesterday saying they tried to deliver a package, so I went to the post office to pick it up. My batteries arrived! Thankfully, none of the cells are bad! Along with the package I got 30 pairs of bullets, a big bottle of CA glue, some foam, 2m of red/black 10ga wire, a hobbycity "voltage/temp montor" and a turnigy watt meter.



[Check out the silver and gold pennies on the right next to the dime]


I wanted to change the plugs from the weird hobbycity to 4mm bullet. The bullet plugs integrated with the connector are 4mm, so I just dremeled the plastic part of the connector off and put some heat shrink tubing on. I should have just left the plastic pieces on and cut them in half to unpolarize them,, but I started this before I thought of that. I've already had one short.

These bullet connectors are a little different in a way that they have a raised part to fit in the plastic connector. 5mm heat shrink tube is usually perfect for 4mm bullets but it was a sob trying to get the 5mm shrink on these. I had to use a little oil to get the shrink far enough down. If anyone else does this, get some 6mm tubing along with your batteries.



I found something that might work for my battery bag too. It takes a couple minutes to get them to fit, but they do fit in the end.

[johnrobholmes]

I wrestled with bullets on my build for a long time, then swapped to power poles after many shorts, worn out plugs, and user errors. I found the bullets to make errors very probable. Hope you have better luck!

[biohazardman]

I think bullets have their place used as you have used them. I use bullets, Powerpoles and Deans connectors as they have their place as well.
Might want to put some heavy abs sheets around the batts or enclose the battery bag in something to prevent puncture or severe damage in case of an accident. This will help to keep the flames down and explosions to a minimum. ;^) Vents in the hard walled battery container pointed in a safe direction might be good also. Lipo for me too in the near future.

[Metallover]

I got my controller today!! It's the ecrazyman 72v 45a.



Freewheel/Tire mounting went fine. (it has the slightest wobble, don't know if it matters much or if I need to get it trued) (I used some grease )


Only problem is I can't get the wheel to spin for the life of me. There are a few wires and plugs coming out of the controller that aren't used, and I'm not sure if I need to jump them or something.

Here is a picture I found of what the wires are


And here is how I have it set up. The yellow and green wires on the hall and phase are switched as I learned form the known controller wiring diagrams thread. You can see where I soldered a new plug for the throttle. Maybe I need to jump the yellow/black wires for the e-brakes? Do I need to do something with the third wire that used to go to the battery plug for a key switch?



EDIT- After playing around with the bike and my turnigy watt meter for awhile, I found regen must be on. When I pedal the bike with no battery but the watt meter connected, the meter turns on and shows voltage depending on how fast I am pedaling.

When I plug in the battery I hear no noises, beeps,, I see no lights, no humming, creaks, squeals,,, Nothing.

/Edit
And also, what are some ways to reduce the spark upon plugging in the batteries? I'm used to smaller ones but dang, these are huge (at just 44v too ).

Does this look like the right tool? - http://www.scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/_nospark.html

[johnrobholmes]

The little red wire by your power wire needs to be plugged into positive for the controller to arm.

[Metallover]

Ahhh, that'd be it. Well I soldered it up (yayyy lol) but it still doesn't work.

The controller seems to arm now, It is drawing .1a and 5w more then it used to,, There must be an issue between the brakes and/or throttle. Are all throttles compatible?







I hooked 3 batteries in a series and it was just over 72v, so the lvc isn't the problem...
I tried jumping the black/yellow wires for the e-brake and that didn't help
I tried connecting the speed sensor/brake light wires together

Only things I can think of are different hall/phase configurations or re-arranging the throttle wires. I wonder if the controller has been updated since the "switch the yellow/green wires" config I am using was posted?

[gwhy!]

110ma seem a bit high to be honest each of all 4 off my controllers draw around 60ma .. do the current do anything at all when you twist the throt ?. Are you using a hall throt ? is it wired correctly ( cant tell from the pic ).

edit:
Just seen a better pic of your setup it looks like the throt is wired up ok.

[Metallover]

When I twist the throttle the current might make the smallest jump... When I go craz with the throttle it might go from .11 to .12 for the quickest moment.. Otherwise twisting the throttle does nothing. I'm considering opening up the controller and seeing if everything is soldered right and nothing is fried.

I tried switching the blue and green wires instead of the green and yellow wires. I also tried wiring it without switching any wires. Nothing works.