CUTE geared hub motors from bmsbattery/ecitypower

[DAND214]

Hyena, I am a big fan of DD hubs. I have way too many as the ebike bug has hit me way too hard. I was unable to read the CA during riding as I was too worried on the road and I do have a vision problem so watching both is impossible for me. I will make a point to check that as soon as I can ride without worring about the road. As for the DD hubs I have Cryst, Goldens, 9C as well as Conhis that is one of my favprites. 24v 500w on 48v with a moddded infinion is really fun 32 mph WOT pedaling hard. As for gear hubs I have had 2 BMC 400w 2 Bafang 8fun and now the CUTE ones. I like the Cute thing due to it's size and weight, unfortunatly the jury is still out on how long I will be in love with it. I do a lot of riding now that I am kinda RETIRED? Or should I put it as out of work and too old to find a good job that I would tolerate & they would me. Will keep updates as I ride and hope to put some pics as soon as I can take them and figure how to post them.
Dan

[Hyena]

Dan, sounds like you're in a good position to make some comparions!
I was thinking about trying a conhis motor but I figure it'll be much the same as the goldens I've tried. There's not as many distributors here in Australia as there is in the US so I have to rely on getting most stuff from china and largely via ebay.

Cell_man ~30km/hr on 36v from a motor of that size is quite respectable. It wouldn't do me but for alot of people getting into ebikes the performance for it's size and weight is quite respectable. Would you say the torque of this motor with a 15a controller is comparable to a larger DD hub with say a 20a controller ? I've had a few older folks ask me to build bikes for them and these little fellas in a FWD sound like just the ticket.

[DAND214]

Hyena,
Yeah it's a golden inside. The are narrow and can use disc brakes. I have 2 24v 500w DD's and one is a golden and the other is Conhis. i got both on Ebay tru http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... SS:US:1123 If you are interested contact Sanny direct and ask for a better deal than Ebay, he has done it for me. The golden 24v on 36v is very impressive and top speed is about 25mph and the Conhis 24v runs up to just over 32 on 48v. I ordered the lower voltage since it appears all of us seem to overvolt these things, so if I got a low voltage I didn't need to go nuts with the batteries? Back to the CUTE ones, I wanted a small hub with lite weight so I can transport it on the back of the car. The DD hubs and the bike are very heavy in comparison. My wife has a Raleigh with a bmc 400w and on 36v it's 21+mph. It's much lighter than my DD bikes. As for the older group the Lite hubs make since to me. They are easier to move around and there is no drag when coasting or just pedaling like the DD's have.I like speed and lots of power so the CUTE ones are not mt top choice in performance but so far they seem to be good for just riding around and working on my legs, for the longer rides in the summer. At this time I have 7 Ebikes ready to ride 5 DD's and 2 geared hubs. My favorite rides are my MOngoose Blackcomb with the Conhis 24v and my Schwinn s-60 with a 9C from Jason, both are just over 30 mph WOT. The Cute one is on a Wllyworld NEXT full suspension and rides ok but I wouldn't trust it with a front hub. Even the Cute ones as the fork was just junk, had to replace it before I felt safe on it. I did but it at a swap meet for $15 so I can't expect too much for that. Will kepp you up on the progress on the CUTE hubs as I ride.
Dan

[The Stig]

Dan, how does the freewheel drag in the cute compare to the drag in the BMC? Any possibility of a video comparison...
You have the 128 motor right? the 3kg one.
What is the maximum power you run it at/would run it at? Can it handle that power continuously?

Could anyone do this sort of comparison with a cute 108 motor(the smallest one) and a bafang? I have a rear bafang currently and thinking of switching to dual cutes.

[DAND214]

The Stig,
I'm running the 128 rear hub at 48v and a modded 6 fet controller at 30 peak amps. And at this time it is hard to tell how long it will last due to the cold we have at this time of year. The hub and controller are running cold to just warm at 32f deg. As drag from he bmc and the Cute one is also hard to compare as the BMC is laced to a 700 wheel and the Cute is on a 26". since I am more of a DD user I see now drag what so ever during coast or non power pedaling. Till it warms up here and there is some heat there is no way to tell if the Cute one will last under the laod I put to it at this time. All I can tell at this time is they seem to work great sensored not sensorless (I did try it on a test stand) it is very smooth and kinda quiet. My concern is the nylon gears inside just like the Bafang, what will it take to melt them down and where will I / we find replacements. The gears are not like the Bafang, just a sprur gear it's a straight cut gear on top of a angle cut gear off the sun gear.
So all I can tell you at this time wait and see or jump in and learn the good and the bad with the rest of us.
No riding this weekend due to snow and I'm off downtown for a wedding and some super bowl fun.
Dan

[The Stig]

The Stig,
I'm running the 128 rear hub at 48v and a modded 6 fet controller at 30 peak amps. And at this time it is hard to tell how long it will last due to the cold we have at this time of year. The hub and controller are running cold to just warm at 32f deg. As drag from he bmc and the Cute one is also hard to compare as the BMC is laced to a 700 wheel and the Cute is on a 26". since I am more of a DD user I see now drag what so ever during coast or non power pedaling. Till it warms up here and there is some heat there is no way to tell if the Cute one will last under the laod I put to it at this time. All I can tell at this time is they seem to work great sensored not sensorless (I did try it on a test stand) it is very smooth and kinda quiet. My concern is the nylon gears inside just like the Bafang, what will it take to melt them down and where will I / we find replacements. The gears are not like the Bafang, just a sprur gear it's a straight cut gear on top of a angle cut gear off the sun gear.
So all I can tell you at this time wait and see or jump in and learn the good and the bad with the rest of us.
No riding this weekend due to snow and I'm off downtown for a wedding and some super bowl fun.
Dan

Yeah thats what I wonder with that amperage, if you've been in any gear testing situations, the cold is a huge advantage to the motor though. I will definitely be running the bike hot when back in Greece. Thanks Dan.

Oh and don't let the cold scare you, a thick jacket with a good hood(with fluffy border and interior) and some gloves is all you need to enjoy a snowy ride. The hood blocks the wind from hitting your face hard depending on its size, kinda like a windscreen. Enjoy!

[cell_man]

Fellas,

the 128 is quite different internally to the 108 motor. Any comments i made about drag were related to the 108 which uses a higher gear ratio than typical hub motors. I'm sure the 128 will have a typical gear ratio of approximately 5:1.

I will have to get a 128 motor laced into a rim and give it a try to see how it compares to the Bafang. I've been using the new front Bafang lately. It's a nice little motors. About the same size/weight as the 128.

[The Stig]

Fellas,

the 128 is quite different internally to the 108 motor. Any comments i made about drag were related to the 108 which uses a higher gear ratio than typical hub motors. I'm sure the 128 will have a typical gear ratio of approximately 5:1.

I will have to get a 128 motor laced into a rim and give it a try to see how it compares to the Bafang. I've been using the new front Bafang lately. It's a nice little motors. About the same size/weight as the 128.

So the the 108 motor must have the freewheel mechanism on the "sun gear" or "planet gear" carrier, if the freewheel drag is affected by the gear ratio.

Thats how my previous BMC 600W motor was, they are 5:1 though. It had pretty negligible drag. My earlier "puma" motor had a freewheel in the ring gear so there was no drag at all from the planetary gear mechanism.

[cell_man]

The freewheel is still in the Sun Gear but like any geared hub motor there is drag just from the fact that the rotating wheel still has to turn the gears and this will add some drag which increases with speed. The Bafang front motor has pretty low drag as does my Puma motor but I did find the 108 had more drag than these. I can only assume this is due to the higher gear ratio. It's not a dea breaker as they are a nice little motor but I do think it's worth a mention. I think the only geared hub motor that has no drag is the heinzman as it actually disengages the single planetary gear when freewheeling AFAIK. The Tongxin which uses a kind of roller gear is also supposedly very low drag.

[The Stig]

The freewheel is still in the Sun Gear but like any geared hub motor there is drag just from the fact that the rotating wheel still has to turn the gears and this will add some drag which increases with speed. The Bafang front motor has pretty low drag as does my Puma motor but I did find the 108 had more drag than these. I can only assume this is due to the higher gear ratio. It's not a dea breaker as they are a nice little motor but I do think it's worth a mention. I think the only geared hub motor that has no drag is the heinzman as it actually disengages the single planetary gear when freewheeling AFAIK. The Tongxin which uses a kind of roller gear is also supposedly very low drag.

Too bad they didn't put the freewheel in the ring gear! then there would be no drag at all. I wonder why they didn't do that...

I just want to know how much more (or little more) drag that little guy actually has. I'm dying someone to test it out.

I'm pretty sure my first hub motor from Brett White(!) was a puma. It had the freewheel on the ring gear. It didn't last long enough for me to get a feel for its rolling resistance though.

[drewdiller]

Got my laced wheel back from the wheel builder. Should have just gotten a truing stand and done it myself. I was extremely specific that one extra washer be placed on the inside of the dropout on the disc brake side, otherwise the disc would be guaranteed to rub against the caliper housing on my particular bike.

Bike was still in the stand when I came to pick it up, and he demonstrated the hissing sound, which was "not the disc brake, it's the hub making that sound."

I put the bike in the stand at home and took the brakes all the way off, no more hiss.

*grumble*

AND he laced it to a rim drilled for a presta valve when I specifically asked for schrader, so my tube wouldn't fit, and it was late at night, so I couldn't go buy a different one.

All this waiting and then this @#$*!!!! That's right, four exclamation marks.

[cell_man]

Take a deep breath and forget about it. Just 1 of those things, I'm sure you'll have it sorted in a flash

[DAND214]

drewdiller, I had the same thing on the presta, all you have to do is drill it out. The bike shop asked me when I picked it up and he drilled it out. It's not hard just a drill and it's done. I hope you get it running soon as I don't think I will be out too much in the near future as we just got a foot of snow and cold for a couple weeks! I did get out before the snow for a few miles and tried to read my CA, good luck with the cold, my glasses were fogging and the CA was bouncing too much to read.
So get yours runing so we can get more info. Where are you located? Is it warm there? Sub zero tonight here, CHICAGO.
Dan

[drewdiller]

Sorry for that post last night, you'd think my almost-30 self would have something resembling an even temper by now.

DAND214, I live in Saint Paul, so it's cold here too. 15 F is considered par, 0 F and colder is qualified as an irritant, and 32 F is downright balmy. I've been reading that I should expect less range from my battery, not to charge it in the cold, stuff like that...

Our powder dump has finished, and I have some cleared streets and reasonably smooth plowed park paths, so I should be able to get a decent non-jittery view of the CA.

[DAND214]

Drew, then you got what we got? They do plow the park a little but not the bike paths, the skiers use them in the winter more than we can. I know what what 32F is like after it's 0 and so on. As for range, I don't know for sure cause I have gone 13 miles on 6.5 amps and still had the other 6.5 amps left when I tested the pack after my run. Good luck on the test run, let us know what you think. What batt are you running? 36v / 48v?
Dan

[drewdiller]

I got a 36V 10Ah Headway pack via evcomponents.com. I want to connect everything tonight, even if I do have to live with disc drag for a little bit.

[drewdiller]

Well, I didn't get it hooked up by midnight. I was two minutes late.

I did manage to patch up the brake rub, yay for that.

Current mounting in the frame is extremely lame and I want to redo it. Anyone have any suggestions? The battery and controller fit ever so nicely in the triangle, I just need to get them to _stay_ there under duress.

Here's is a pic after the maiden test voyage, plus my personal mechanic in the background.

IMG_3657.JPG (66.3 KiB) Viewed 992 times

[drewdiller]

Stats from first run: 2.5 km, 0.8 Ah, wasn't paying attention to how fast I was going (haven't even calibrated it yet, so I don't know if distance and speed are even accurate), but I didn't even have to pedal up a 7% grade and I had a HUGE STUPID SMILE ON MY FACE.

[drewdiller]

I should clarify that those stats were taken on a bike with studded tires with low pressure. The rolling resistance is awful.

[DAND214]

drewdiller,
I thought Saint Paul, MN. was in the states, when did they leave?
Just joking I'm more comfortable with MPH not KpH. So you liked it? Not too bad is it. Which size hub is it, I don't remember which one you got. Studded snow tires, that's cheating, that would make me more comfortable ridding in theis crap. Kepp use informed on you progress.
Dan

[drewdiller]

Heh, yeah, I haven't messed with the settings on my CA yet =)

Yes, I love it! I am smitten. Consider me an official e-bike addict.

Studs are not cheating!

(OFF TOPIC: My long term ideal is to build a studded electric Pugsley. If I can ever afford doing so, I will give it a silly name. It takes a rear hub at the front axle, so I would consider experimenting with a recumpence RC drive on the front.)

[full-throttle]

Looks great! Could you post more pics please.

Are you going to keep it as a singlespeed? Bet it weights close to 20kg.

Will be watching this thread for more.

[drewdiller]

Looks great! Could you post more pics please.

Are you going to keep it as a singlespeed? Bet it weights close to 20kg.

PICS:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16270&start=0

Yup, it's staying a single speed.

Haven't weighed it yet, will have to take a trip to my dad's employer for that, which could happen relatively soon, as I am curious.

[torker]

Only thing I would do is fab a fender on the rear to keep the moisture off that controller. I just did one using an old underdash radio/amp mount. It's just an l-bracket with holes in it. And I used an old plastic car lot plate like you get off a car bought at the dealer. Free.

Looks good btw.

[Kevinator]

Got my laced wheel back from the wheel builder. Should have just gotten a truing stand and done it myself.

I feel your pain. I had similar issues with my first wheel build (normal multispeed bike hub) and figured that I'd be better off investing in the tools and learning to do my own wheels. Youtube has plenty of wheel building instructionals.