Suzuki GT50 Conversion

[only1jake]

The bike is going to be converted from 49cc petrol engine to a 3Kw 48v system. The hub motor is going to be the Kelly controllers 3Kw high speed motor. Controller 48v 150A 3kw Kelly Controller. And i am wanting to try and integrate the charger onboard this smallish frame. Soon I'll be able to ride the electric motorbike to school everyday. A couple months ago (more like 2 months ago) I bought a Suzuki GN250, which i was going to use to commute, but after a while of riding it, i found it to be boring. Sold it for NZ$2300. I have been dying to start another project, since i literally just moved to New Zealand. Ok, well lets get onto the project lol.

I'm starting off with a Suzuki GT50, working ICE etc, a lil bit of rust. Not bad for a bike from 1979 Bought for NZ$286 ....

Engine coming out:


ENGINE IS OUT!!!!! yey

All the parts:


At the moment the rego and wof has lapsed out as it has been in storage, so will need to be re registered which will cost a bit
So far i have bought this from Kelly Controllers, which I am anxiously waiting to arrive;

Kelly 48Volt Charge Meter $19.00
Throttle Hall 0-5V Twist Grip(WUXING) $38.00
Optional Waterproof $38.00
F4815-48V/15A Charger $199.00
HWZ Series DC/DC Convertor 48V to 12V 300W $129.00
Hub Motor 48V3KW (High Speed)(disc-brake) $399.00
Kit for Disc-brake Motor(big) $99.00
Motor Tyre (13-inch motor special) with Vacuum births $79.00
KEB48300 150A 48V 3KW $209.00
Low Cost Compact Assembly (KEB/KBL/PM ) $99.00
Sub-Total: $1,308.00 + 277 -----> NZ $2274

Says the high speed motor is rated at 76kmh no load. so should get around 50-70kmh average.

I sold my GN250 for NZ$2300. Giving me enough to buy this. At the moment i am saving up for all the accessories and wire and connectors, which comes to around NZ$150. Once bought, I need to save up yet again to purchase batteries, which accumulates to:

BATTERIES---Scooterparts.co.nz: B-009
4X 12-Volt/24AH ==============$ 164 Each
Dimensions (mm):
L165xW174xH125 Total: NZ$656

I am going to try to weld a frame around the batteries, using bolts to secure the battery box to the old engine mounts. Making the batteries detachable if needed to eb in future, replacement of batteries maybe? I have the idea very very clear in my head and have done a few concepts on paper. I need to make the final design and then I'll post that. I will update on this thread when i do something with the bike, I so far have cleaned up the frame:





Everything will need to be taken off and be sanded down. I.e Rust. Then a coat of primer to be added plus a green sprayed tank etc. Then to get it road legal and more rider comfortable i am going to buy new set of lights all round bike. I am going to be making the wiring harness myself which i will hopefully get right.. lol
No need to ask why i didn't use an etek or similar motor. I have debated that already. I just want to try something different and new, could use creating/converting/selling ev's as my career, and will always need to try new things. I really like the bike... It's so slim haha.
Regular updates
New ideas would be great and all comments appreciated. thanks

[jonescg]

Looks like it will be a good conversion

Pretty vintage bike to start with too. How heavy is the rolling chassis?

Hub motor will work perfectly for this bike I reckon. Especially since you don't have a lot of room in the frame for a motor and batteries. I will keep following this thread

All the best!

CHRIS

PS where did you move from?

[only1jake]

Hey, thanks for the prompt reply. My family moved over here so i had to move too, we moved from Spain. ALthough I'm originally from Reading in England. Good to see that you like the idea too I'm not too sure how heavy it is, but seems pretty heavy. I would say around between 20-30 kgs.
Thanks,
Jake

[only1jake]

I forgot to add... I have also been following your thread.. Suzuki Rg250 Gamma conversion!!!!
Great

[only1jake]

So after a whole week with no change in my order status from kelly. I decided to send them an email. I received an email last night saying that Steven had been on holiday and he was going to process my order today. He also said he will ship it on Monday which is a great sign. The parts should finally be on their way soon Yesterday i also decided to order some parts from evworks;

-Power connector, 600V 175A 6 $37.92
-Heatshrink - 13mm Black 2 $6.90
-Copper cable lug, 16-8 14 $12.04
-Emergency Stop Switch Low power 1 $10.00
Subtotal: $66.86
P & P (Registered International Air Mail): $27.00
TOTAL: $93.86 AUD --> NZD $120

So i just have to arrange the payment and that will be on its way. I was going to order 12 meter of 16mm2 orange wire, but I think I'm just going to get that locally.
Once the parts arrive ill take lots of pictures!!!

To Do List:
- disassemble bike for sanding/painting
- primer it
- spray... thinking of black frame, green tank/fenders
- buy batteries
- buy wire
- fit new disc brake pads
- maybe look for new front forks.. at the moment they are real rusty and there's a leaking fork seal
- paint tank/fenders
- make battery frame
- maybe adapt swingarm for hub motor
- make wiring harness
- buy plastic or make moulds for fibreglass battery cover
- get the bike registered for road use
- wof
- electric motorcycle completed

Got quite a few things to do!

[dumbass]

Looks like a nice project. But do yourself a favor and don't waste your money on the lead. If need be save a little longer and buy 4 Thunder Sky lifepo4 packs Elite Power http://elitepowersolutions.com/products ... ucts_id=74 They will run 3 times the distance and out last the lead packs 10 times. A set of 4 pack (48v 20ah) will cost you $416 with FREE SHIPPING !! Yeah, it's a lot more upfront cost but you will be thinking me by the end of the first year. And remember these lifepo4 packs will only weigh 26.4 pounds and they are smaller then the lead. And they can be arranged anyway you want because you can remover the indiviual cells from the plasic boxes they come in and arrage them the way they fit best.

[only1jake]

Thanks for pointing that out. But I have already decided to go with lead-acid, and i have already ordered my charger and everything. I am also looking into lifepo4 and similar batteries, but the thing is, At the moment for my budget it is too expensive. Because as you can see with that battery it is $420 with free shipping, then you would also need a charger which tends to be around half that. That comes to around $600 USD which i just dont have to spend. I will be looking into it for my next project, but thanks for telling me!

Im going to save that website!

[John in CR]

Definitely forget the lead, especially at that larcenous price. Those Thundersky's aren't the answer though, because they aren't going to put out the amperage you need. When you're comparing batteries you really have to almost double up on the AH's for lead to compare to lithium batteries. That 24ah rating is based on a 20 hour discharge rate. At the currents you'll be pulling, you'd be very lucky to get 18ah out of them. It's called Peukert's Effect. Then there's the fact that you'll prematurely kill them if you draw them below 80% of their capacity, so that's 14ah you can use. Then you start comparing weights and sizes for equal range and things get crazy.

You've got a good platform and great parts, so don't drop the ball on the batts. They are the most important part of your build and people often spend more on batteries than anything else. You just thought you were bored on that bike you sold. Lead motorcycles are a real sleeper.

[only1jake]

Yeah i understand, but like i said before, i am not willing to spend much more. I understand the point, its just ive decided to do this project with lead acid. I just need it for a little daily commuting, like a total less than 10km so its fine for my needs at the moment. I greatly value the imput that you guys have pointed out and am thinking about it for my next project. At the moment i dont have a job because i am on my student visa, so thats another reason ive decided to do it like this. Although i do have an idea in mind to convert maybe a 250 or 400 cc bike. But i can always change these batts to lithium in the future.
Thanks

[dumbass]

Thanks for pointing that out. But I have already decided to go with lead-acid, and i have already ordered my charger and everything. I am also looking into lifepo4 and similar batteries, but the thing is, At the moment for my budget it is too expensive. Because as you can see with that battery it is $420 with free shipping, then you would also need a charger which tends to be around half that. That comes to around $600 USD which i just dont have to spend. I will be looking into it for my next project, but thanks for telling me!

Im going to save that website!

Just a little FYI, I have been using a lead charger on my lifepo4 packs for going on 2 years now. If you check around you will find a lot of people doing the same thing. You won't get the max charge from it but it sure does do a great job. But you should have some kind of low voltage alarm or cutoff (about $100).

[only1jake]

oh right!!! If i could do that that would be awesome yeah!! thanks... do you know of a thread on here about it?
and could you help me out on a few sites for some lifepo4 batts?

Im gonna go rummaging around the forum for some sites

[dumbass]

oh right!!! If i could do that that would be awesome yeah!! thanks... do you know of a thread on here about it?
and could you help me out on a few sites for some lifepo4 batts?

Im gonna go rummaging around the forum for some sites

I'm assuming you were talking to me. but sorry no I don't remember any actually threads about using an SLA charger on lifepo4 batteries. But from time to time people will comment on the fact that they are currently doing it or that they have done it in the past and it worked well for them. I've looked at a ton of sites on lifepo4 batteries but I don't have any real recommendation other then this one http://elitepowersolutions.com/products ... ucts_id=74 If you should consider these packs please be sure of your max amp draw. These packs are rated at 20ah 2C max constant discharge.

PS....I know that morph99 is also using a B&D 12v lead charger for charging these packs. he is running a 36v setup.

[John in CR]

Being on a tight budget you have to look at toolpack batteries. There are a few guys selling them. For the power and range 60 of the A123 M1 cells might just be sufficient for the range. A string of 4 in parallel by 15 in series (4p15s) will handle as much as 280 amps continuous and would give you 49.5v nominal. You're only looking at just over 400wh of total capacity, so you'd have to average under 40wh/km, but that's possible if you keep it 60kph and under and flat terrain. You would need to be able to balance charge them and monitor the voltage of each parallel group, but I've seen people netting prices including shipping (even Europe to USA) for under $5 usd per cell. That would be a pack you could build on and make to fit your frame however you like. The cells themselves would weigh only 4.2kg for a pack capable of 18hp continuous and over 30hp for 10sec peaks.

Look in the for sale section of this forum. DoctorBass is a reliable supplier. SteveO may have what you need too. There was someone in Europe with a ton of Bosch and DeWalt pack. The Konion cells in Bosch and Makita packs are another good option, but they don't do as high a power as the A123's. They are a more forgiving cells. I just charge and ride with mine.

John

[only1jake]

Thanks for the info. And John i will have a look around to see whats best and cheap, around the forum. I'll keep you guys posted!

[only1jake]

OK, so would i be able to use 4 of these for my application? http://elitepowersolutions.com/products/product_info.php?cPath=16&products_id=74
Using this charger to charge them?http://www.newkellycontroller.com/product_info.php?cPath=31_50&products_id=486
That is the charger that i have already bought!!
Help would be great! Thanks!

[dumbass]

OK, so would i be able to use 4 of these for my application? http://elitepowersolutions.com/products/product_info.php?cPath=16&products_id=74
Using this charger to charge them?http://www.newkellycontroller.com/product_info.php?cPath=31_50&products_id=486
That is the charger that i have already bought!!
Help would be great! Thanks!

Damn, I thought you said you were on a budget!! That charger is 200 bucks + shipping........That's not "on a budget".

What is the amp rating on the controller you are using? These cells are rated for 20ah at a 2C discharge. That means they can discharge 40a cont. They have a max charge rating of 3C. That means you can charge at a max of 60a. I'm not going to try to be an expert on chargers but based on the specs I would say that charger fits the requirements of the cells. Just remember there is no BMS between the charger and the cells. This can be a problem in certain situations. However, as I told you I and many others have been doing it with no problems. But you do need to manually monitor the charge. It would have been better if you had gotten more info on your setup before placing your order. Are you sure it's to late to cancel it? I'm not saying you should but it would give you more time to think things through. After all you could charge the SLA or even the lifepo4 batteries with a common 12v charger if you setup the wiring correctly. And a 12v charger is a lot cheaper too. Or you may even already have one for your car. Just a thought..

[only1jake]

I do not want to cancel my order! I am thinking and searching about different batteries to use. It's just last time i search up lifepo4 batts they were exceedingly expensive. So i thought they were still like this today. So i probably could go with ok lipo batts. I still have yet to decide if i want to change to lipo, althought it would be good if i could use lipo for around the same ammount or a little more. The controller is rater 150 amp peak and 100amp continuous. Lipo is definately the better bet, but i may have to resort to lead? anyways your guys help is great!
thanks
Jake

[Jay64]

Uh, how big is that wheel on that bike? Isn't that hub motor only like 13 inches or something? Usually that bike wheel is about 17 inches or so.

[only1jake]

Hi,
Yes the front wheel is 17 inches. The hub motor is 13 inches. The hub motor with tyre is 15 inches in total and the front wheel on the bike is 18 in total. I forgot to mention on the initial post, that i will be getting stiffer/little larger rear suspension, to compensate for the difference in sizes.
Hope that answers the question.
Thanks,
Jake

PS: Guys i have decided that i am going to stay with the lead-acid batteries, and keep the lipo/lifepo4 for another project when i have the paricular funds to buy proper gear.

[Jay64]

Why are you going with an upgrade on the rear suspension if you are changing the front wheel?
Btw, I use a SLA charger on my lifepo4 cells. The guy I got it from did a slight modification to it to get the higher charge at the end or something. So it can be done. And it works well.

[only1jake]

When i bought the bike it also came with 2 spare wheels, front and rear. The spare front wheel is in better condition, so im going to swap that out. I still think im going with lead for now. Might upgrade in the future.

[John in CR]

Jake,

If you really can't do cheaper than that on lead batteries, then you can get going as cheaply or cheaper using a variety of different lithium battery solutions. Also, you bought quite a lot of charger there with a zero in the flexibility department. If they haven't already shipped it, then maybe they have something a bit better for you going forward. Specifically a charger that can be tuned to different voltages would be great. Chinese New Year was last Sunday and their annual festival time is around then, so there's a chance it hasn't been shipped yet and make it easy to change your order. Just last week I bought over 50% greater total real world capacity than those 48V24ah of lead from DoctorBass for only $336usd including shipping. With a bit of easy manual work on my part, I'll end up with a battery shaped how I want with less than half the size and weight of the lead that will last for years and that I'll treat like a lead battery (just charge and go). Maybe once every few months or so I'll check the strings for balance, but at only $336 I'll probably just check things once or twice after the first few cycles to ensure all my connections are good and then just forget about it. The big question mark is how much more shipping would cost to NZ.

John

[liveforphysics]

When i bought the bike it also came with 2 spare wheels, front and rear. The spare front wheel is in better condition, so im going to swap that out. I still think im going with lead for now. Might upgrade in the future.

You got ripped hard on the sucky charger, and ripped hard on the 300w DC/DC. Both of those items cost you about 3-4x more than they should.

You're going to hate lead... It will function for a little while, it will make the thing move around for a little while, but it's no way to have a useful working motorcycle. A lead battery eats itself every time the voltage decreases on the cells, this is why they really suck for cycled energy storage, like an EV.

Also, if you want to use the 150amps your controller has available with cheap lithium, you're going to need to run 3P with headways cells, or at least 60Ah of thunder sky. The little 20Ah TS cells would be lucky to pump out 50amps, let alone 150amps.

Tool packs as John suggested would be a great cheap simple option. Lead always costs the most in the long run, and it always makes for a disappointment rather than a fun EV.

[John in CR]

I think Kelly rates their controllers at the phase output, so 150 amp limit is more like 100a or less for the battery. This thread keeps bringing back memories of my first shot at an e-moto. Three 60lb 75ah lead batteries, a Kelly 36v200a brushed controller, comet Torq-a-verter CVT, and a nice 3kw brushed motor. The only positive things I can say are that it did run, and hauled me on that pig up a short 25% grade leaving the house, but slow acceleration and max speed of 25mph or so is not a motorcycle to me. My grandfather's lawn tractor that I drove as a kid was more fun. I did 3-4 short test runs mostly rides for the kids on that beast, and it hasn't moved since then...about 20 months. Even my lead based e-bike was more fun.

That was before I discovered ES. Oh the $ and time I could have saved had I found ES sooner!!! Most of us have to learn the hard way, so Jake will be in lots of company.

John

[only1jake]

Hi guys,
I have found a local shop which can sell me some cheaper lead-acid batteries! I'm not sure on the price but i will investigate And as for my reason for not using lithium cells yet, is because i just want to get it on the road quickly for now, i dont have any transport. Once ive set it up and its sort of reliable (controller and motor) then is when i am probably thinking of going to lithium or lifepo4! That is my main reason.
The order hasnt been shipped yet, and its not going to be shipped until another week they said, but ive already been invoiced. And i don't really want to change it. I like this charger, but i knew the dc/dc was a bit too expensive. But i've been wanting to buy stuff from kelly controllers for a while now, so for me its quite exciting nevertheless.
I understand where you guys are coming from, but i just want to do like a said above. Test it and get it going and complete with lead and then litterally like the next month change to lithium!
Alright and thanks
Jake

EDIT: I would Like to use tool packs if possible?