EV-1 Conversion

Wow!, now that's a connector! 8)

Wouldn't want to see that sucker short out (well, acually I probably would if it was on a video). :twisted:
 
Hi I was wondering if you would reply w/the last 3 digits of the VIN, back in the 90's I was involved w/ EV1's and I'm wondering if I know the one you got there?

Thanks
 
Wow!

It's good to see another classic EV getting rebuilt and put on the roads! I'm feeling guilty seeing how much work you're going to that my CityStromer EV isn't going to have her original controller when she's recomissioned in a few month's time. Sadly, 1980s wiring and circuit diagrams are so complex and tough to trouble-shoot (and we're not sure what goes were!) that we're going to use a contemporary controller.

Had you thought of using a detachable towing mechanism to do the hybrid bit?

Nikki.
 
Byron - the last three VIN digits are 524. I checked the entire VIN against another online database a couple of years ago, no hits however. Let me know if you find someone who used to own this one, they might like to know it isn't destroyed (yet).

Hi Nikki - well, if the generator set (and fuel tank) won't fit in the trunk, the trailer idea is the only other option. Sure hope it doesn't come to that though, I don't think it'll be easy rigging a trailer hitch to this car. Anyway, good luck with your CityStormer!
 
The EV1 you have was actually a promo used by the EV Specialists in CA. Was never privately leased.
 
Hi again, I was hoping you had 100, at least now you know a little more about the history of that car you got there, seeing it taken apart brought back memories.
 
Quite a recent spate of <10 post posters.
confused.gif
 
evchels said:
The EV1 you have was actually a promo used by the EV Specialists in CA. Was never privately leased.

Interesting - low miles! Thanks for the intel. Also, if there's anyone you know who might be familiar with some of the stock systems who wouldn't mind getting a question or two as this thing gets pieced back together, just send me a note.

Job for now: making some plastic boxes for the last two cap modules... might have an update to post next week.
 
Just making sure you're aware of this, but all those caps together combine to have 432watt-hrs if you charged them to 389v and discharged them all the way to 0 volts. I don't know at what point the voltage feeding the controller is too low to be useful, but I'm pretty certain of that 432whrs, you've got 250-300w-hrs that are usable...

My E-bike's normal around town pack uses 5 times this amount of energy storage, and seems inadequate.

You can easily put more energy storage into the pockets of your pants, and not need a belt to hold them up still by using LiPo.

The controller electronics has a current limit, so it doesn't make any performance difference if your pack can discharge at 300amps, or 3,000,000amps, and the same of course goes for the re-gen rates.

If you're expecting to be able to climb up hills longer than a few blocks, the caps are just going to be dead-weight, and you will be running off the power of the little gas engine alone, and the EV1 doesn't come with pedals. ;)
 
Hey, didn't E:S member "Jeff" do a complete restore/rebuild of one of those university-donated EV-1s?

I'd love to do one of these as a pure EV with the a123 prisimatics. Or at least one of Vanilla Ice's kit-cars.
 
Hi Luke - check the top of first post of this thread for the power scheme. The genset is sized for continuous power delivery with a liquid fuel, which beats the crap out of any battery from an energy density perspective (by weight or volume).

LiPo: 200 Wh/kg, 300 Wh/L
Ammonia (option A): 5167 Wh/kg, 3194 Wh/L
Biodiesel (option B): 11764 Wh/kg, 10353 Wh/L

The caps will always float between about 230-389 volts, which is within the controller's 200-400 V range. The car won't get far on them alone, but won't need to with the genset running.

In case anyone else missed it, the general idea is:
Caps --> sized for peak power (acceleration), 100 kW
Liquid fuel/generator --> sized for continuous power (cruise), 30 kW

The generator engine we're targeting now is 45 hp, two cylinder, 18:1 compression.

Hey, didn't E:S member "Jeff" do a complete restore/rebuild of one of those university-donated EV-1s?

Hey Oatnet - maybe, I'm not sure I know that Jeff, unless it's BYU's Jeff (Baxter). If it is, then he's already been a big help!
 
Update time again - plenty going on in the garage during spring break.

It was revealed to me (earlier in the thread) that the EV-1 was designed with a unique braking system. Electric-hydraulic in the front, and electric only (brake by wire) in the rear. This would have been less of an issue if GM had not removed the Brake and Traction Control Module (BTCM) before donation. But, here we are. Looking around online showed that the rear brake was part of the 12 V (auxiliary battery) system, so we wanted to try and actuate them and see what happened. I worked with Eric from EVA/DC to inspect the rear brakes.

They turned out to be electric drum brakes. There were a couple of wire bundles leading from the rear of the backing plate, up into the trunk, and down to the driver's kick panel.

DSCF1521.jpg

DSCF1522.jpg

DSCF1524.jpg

DSCF1525.jpg


Here's the plug that used to go into the BTCM, right next to the parking brake button:

DSCF1541.jpg


By testing for electrical continuity between the plug terminals, we were able to confirm which wires went to which rear wheel (driver's or passenger's).

DSCF1540.jpg


Putting 12 V across the proper leads engaged the parking brake.

[youtube]x1NT4Arr8_Q[/youtube]

A couple of notes about these brakes - they are an odd size, I think 226 mm. Definitely metric. The bolt circle for the wheel is also 5X100 mm. Finally, the drums themselves are aluminum, meaning that although the brake shoes contacted the drum's inner ~226 mm surface, they were very thick - measuring about 270 mm on the outer surface. This is very thick relative to cast iron drums. GM did all this (electric instead of pneumatic, aluminum instead of cast iron) to save about 4 kg on a 1400 kg car. Very dumb idea if you ask me (not worth it). At any rate, this means that the wheels, which have about 12" of free diameter inside the rims, could have fit a bigger drum and achieved better stopping power.

So, we were able to apply the parking brakes using 12 V on each side, and to lock the brake by putting 12 V momentarily across two other wire pairs also going to each hub connector. But, attempts to do gradual brake movement by applying a range of lower voltages didn't pan out. I therefore decided to order a couple of electric trailer drum brakes (with a controller) that are 10" in size. The trick was finding a drum (cast iron this time) that fit the small bolt pattern for the existing wheel. Searching some catalogs online, I found that the 1966 Plymouth Barracuda used front drum brakes that were 10" and had a bolt circle of 5x4", which is just about the same as 5x100 mm. Raybestos still makes the drums, thank goodness. Two are on the way - should be able to check things out by the end of the month.

In other news, the high voltage system is complete. I made PVC and pine housings for the two modules I assembled myself, and placed them into the tray. Everything was braced, secured, and tied down. This picture was taken before re-installing the rear tray cover, which is where I mounted the contactor and fuse. Note the office chair wheels bolted on the bottom so I can roll the tray around.

DSCF1527.jpg


Next was connecting them all in series using 4/0 cable and hammer-crimped lugs. I had to bend some of the lugs to fit them in. In the next image you can see the contactor and fuse mounted to the tray frame above the capacitors at the lower right.

DSCF1531.jpg

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Here's the lug connector at the ultimate positive terminal. The one at the ultimate negative is the same kind. There are two set screw connections, as one line (1/0 in size) goes to the motor inverter/controller, and the other line (4/0) comes in from the generator's rectifier.

DSCF1537.jpg


I wanted to power up the caps in order to see if anything exploded. Here is the setup: (bottom right) digital voltmeter, running on 120 VAC input and measuring total capacitor voltage, (bottom left) capacitor leads (1/0) supported on a PVC plate. The clamps go to the (center left) rectifier, which has its output measured by the (center right) clamp multimeter. The rectifier is fed AC from the (top left) step-up transformer, which acts as a doubler. The transformer is fed by the (top center) 110 V variable transformer, with boost coils. It can put out 150 VAC at 100% from the 125 VAC line voltage from the wall outlet. Current-wise, it's the weak link in the system. I used the clamp-on meter to maintain a charging current of less than 10 A.

DSCF1554.jpg


When the variac was at 50%, the capacitors stopped charging and settled at 218 V. This is enough to light up the inverter/controller, when the time comes.

DSCF1557.jpg


At 85%, I got to 350 V. That was enough for me!

DSCF1559.jpg


For discharging, I used my trusty heater element. I had to pulse it on and off since the input voltage was over 230 V at first. In the future, I'll use a 480 V, 2000 W quartz heater tube (arrived today). I connected the element's leads to two PVC tubes with ring clamps to contact the capacitor leads. This kept me safe from becoming a path to ground. I opened the contactor to knock out the pack's voltage, touched the wires to the leads, then closed the contactor to start the drain. It took about 30 minutes to get down to a voltage safe enough to short the leads by hand.

DSCF1539.jpg

DSCF1535.jpg

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In preparation for spinning the wheels for the first time, I made up a control panel. It fits nicely into the place where the cupholders were! The regen brake will be hand actuated.

DSCF1564.jpg

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Then I cleaned the dang place up!

DSCF1563.jpg


Tomorrow I'll wire all the switches, lamps, and buttons on the control panel to a terminal strip, and then that to the controller, etc. Motor spin-up is scheduled for March 26. Keep your fingers crossed.
 
It's really great to see all this progress JCG! Well done! :D
 
Thanks Paul - also, I think that the drum brakes (and brake drums) just showed up... way ahead of schedule! Next week could be just as exciting.
 
JCG said:
Motor spin-up is scheduled for March 26. Keep your fingers crossed.

Tickets on sale yet for this? Can I get a press pass? I'll bring vidcam... :D

I'll ping you on email for details.

Amazing work!!!
 
JCG> Thanks for your diary, as you are working on the caps pack and it's not permanently mounted, would you pls. stand up to this great opportunity and consider meassuring some of the basic internal dimensions of the tunnel/chassis from within?

The idea previously discussed on this thread to eventually 3D scan this vehicle is not that far fetched..
You have to take into account that currently among mass produced vehicles only Daimler claims "the best" drag coeff. around 0.24(25), next is Prius etc. And as you may noticed even the Aptera has been recently botched by its new management in the aero department to the worse. So the EV1 aero shape (0.19) and the overall appealing arrangement: compact coupe, t-shaped battery pod in fact still represents the cutting age. Don't fool yourself, the mainstream OEM manufs. won't go there, they are in eternal love with their shitty 4000lbs boxes, and the madness continues as there are still some last efficiency% to be squeezed out of the ICE physical limits and put into more power and more weight..

Theoretically speaking, to have inspired reproduction in some kit form would be most feasible/desirable, obviously with few limitations (like hard to source extreme shaped windows etc.), but even with that it still could attack very low drag numbers.

There are many ways how to proceed, but just for the kick, look at this hard core '46 Tucker Torpedo project, basically they took the original small scale model from museum under 3D scan and imported that into CAD, which exports CNC files for frame (or foam) structure. For our consideration, in the next step a negative mold could be developed for the plastic body parts ala boat building etc.

http://www.robidaconcepts.com/torpedo.html
http://www.robidaconcepts.com/videos.html (first clip, rewind 5:00time)

In terms of the chassis this would have to be done in cooperation with some quality company (racing safety pedigree a plus) not a mom & pop outfit. One of the dream type solutions, would be to launch global net donation campaign, and from this budget hire someone as good as for instance the Factory Five Racing to help design and produce the kit (released as much opensource as possible for locally manuf. parts) with contempory advanced tooling, prolly the only real independent U.S. car company of today.

Speaking of the ultra efficiency, I think there has been Solectria Sunrise (0.17) revival project underway by Lee Hart et al, but the progress seemed rather slow, and they use heavy components like complete donor Ford subframes, not ideal..

And the drivetrain, ~100kW AC drivetrain could be sourced now from mix of opensource and general industrial production base.

PS a message to GM - after two decades Impact-EV1 has become world heritage stuff, so you can't crush it again in case people wanted a revival..
 
Ok, Mesuge, its time to admit to the extreme serendepity of my previous post, I had "glanced" the earlier pages of the thread and decided to post about doing this as a kit, and the post just before mine was you making the same point.

I really should read the whole thread in the future lol.

fyi, the process of 3d modeling and 3d "large format mills" are becoming quite feasible at making full size reproductions of existing cars, there is a guy in Michigan I was talking to who said basically, "Give me a 3d model and I can feed 40 to 50 4'x 8' sheets of mdf through my mill and it will build the outer car body in "slices" and also drill dowel holes to assemble it"

Very cool!

For what its worth, chassis design in my opinion has an arc of difficulty. For a car traveling at 120 mph and turning hard, the newest tech and spot on numbers are a must, but (as evidenced by hundreds of Porsche 550 replicas on the road) you can do a lot with even a vw beam and transaxle with a mild steel frame.

Id bet I could build that rolling chassis (including molds) for 30k and have a rolling chassis for a replica that was 85 to 90% faithful to the original at least in outer dimensions.

16k or so for subsequent builds

another 10 for drive components and Voila, EV-1s :)
 
Thanks for the Insight -full comments, in terms of chassis, I'm afraid that the basic bathub kind of kitcar (VW pan or tube skateboard for vintage Porsches), although the cheapest option won't ultimately do it on the market, this would be basically visual wannabe EV1, but effectively potential suicide roller kind of joke. I was thinking more in terms of super secure racing type of chassis as made by Factory Five Racing and other real deal kits who actually race (smash full speed into walls/other cars) can offer. There is much more market for such a platform, which has inbuilt crash protection and professional suspension and steering setup (for the tear drop shape) and what have you..

My way of thinking is that the approach with the highest potential for success in reasonable time, would be to raise funds, and then hire some of these top companies, who have got the know-how, CAD/CNC tooling, software sim tools, to develop such a chassis platform, that's what matters the most, the final body panel and drivetrain stuff is the 2nd - 3rd priority, which could be dealt with the diy - open source community in next steps. Without the quality roller in place similar project won't fly and I doubt its development could be in meanigfull fashion distributed around the globe.

Is this going to cost in agregate a lot of money, is this perhaps above our potential to organize (find enough people), yes, but again if you commission some of the industry leaders, the chances it will go into blackhole are minimal, at least you get in the end quality roller with EV1/Volt style t-shaped battery pod as secure and tested kit platform package for say ~$10k pricetag or less if released as opensource, and what you put above it (body) and inside it (drivetrain) can go into various different 3rd party projects with different levels of finish quality/performance specs and budgets.

So, it the end it could develop into a whole spectrum (3rd party circus) from top luxury version featuring exact matching cast alumium wheels, 3D scanned interior panels (+display console), carpeting, power windows and climate control. Or on the other end of spectrum just maintaining the very rudimentary general body shape replica with completely different simplified spartan interior/options and overall priorities put on low budget ultra efficient platform.

chassis at least along these general lines (secure frame cage & alu paneling):
http://image.kitcarmag.com/f/9418393+w750+st0/142_0403_ultima_13_z.jpg
http://image.mustangandfords.com/f/MustangMan/8493733+w450+h338+cr0+re1+ar1/1965-factory-five-racing-other-factory-five-racing-smeding-427-cobra-special.jpg

PS around 5k-10k individual donors chipping in small donations ($100-200) could make it, that's almost in the reach of some of the EV podcasts audience, reputable figures on the board (think Paul Allen, EVChels types), ext. advisors from the former Impact-EV1 programme, .. heh one could dream on..
 
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but wouldn't GM sue for breach of copyright if you cloned the EV1 body-shape? Yes, I know it would be outrageous for them to do so, but patents are used to supress developement too often.
 
Well, I'm not claiming to be expert in this field, but look at the general replica/kit car industry.
The Porsches, Ferraris and Lambos used to go quite violently about certain specific replicas and re-body kits, usually it boiled down not to offering and advertise in one package with the exact decals feat. company logos/names, and it was - it is ok. In terms of shape protection, I gather if the system would be setup (as it should) as not offering the whole turn-key car (massproduced), but only "tools" and "%parts" for individual hobby replica builders, they can't mount a legal defense against that. Obviously, it can't be ruled out, some of their crazy headhonchos (deeply offended by peasant's re-Volt and yearning for old "discredited" EV1) decides at least to threaten some legal action, but that's it just an attempt to scare people, and after ~20yrs ridiculous. This whole subject/argument should be obviously made bullet proof before any future steps forward in such a project. In the worst case scenario the whole effort can been established under title "Impact-EV1 Replicas LLC, Address: 4th Rock (Mars) from the Sun" and go underground..

I guess, this is not our problem, the major issue here is that people still naively believe the old good OEMs will deliver some EV goodness and fanboy for Tesla, Fisker, Nissan, Mitsu, Daimler, BMW future offerings, well they might come slowly forward (e.g. Leaf), yet with strings attached, but they won't go the full circle on mass produced car-platforms which may render their ICE-legacy supply chain obsolete overnight, i.e. ultra efficient platform (ala kit re-formed Impact-EV1/Solectria Sunrise), which doesn't need a 30-50kWh of expensive (revenue) generating batteries with limited OEM availability for decent range commute..

Let's imagine the rainbows and unicorns sort of never-land future around 2015-2020 a happy time when Leafs are massproduced for $15-20k including battery pack, I'd say that even then the EV1 kit will have a strong appeal, similarly as people adore some of the pre WWII or 50-60s car master pieces..
 
Many of you are all likely familiar with all these low volume production or aero prototypes prior WWII, incl. the "flying wombat" , Tatra etc. What drives me mad is if you look even at this 1952 Benz 300SL, most of the "EV stuff package" is already there: drag coeff. 0.25, lightweight <900kg, relatively safe caged, plenty of storage area (enginebay, exhaust sidetunnels/ACP T-zero, storage space behind seats, spacious trunk).

This is relatively easily mass-producible shape for a modern coupe, I understand the need for family wagons/hatchbacks with huge "living spaces", but this "sitting in a glove" arrangement works pretty good too, for the average commuting distances. Isn't it interesting that when the car went into production later in the 50s, the drag was significantly increased by additional, shall we say largely "marketing - styling" improvements. I think there are some kits of later 300SL available out there as well, unfortunately not for this earlier puristic version, although alterations seem perhaps possible, I'd say this is rather very different shape after closer inspection..

444717_737954_768_564_42207887F263S.jpg



My favorite shots, showing the true spirit of the shape:
http://www.emercedesbenz.com/Images/Jul08/03_1952_Mercedes_Benz_300_SL/498323_872937_2737_3275_418663m_rztelegramm3.jpg
http://photobucket.com/images/300sl%201952/

more:
http://www.emercedesbenz.com/Jul08/03_001238_eMercedesBenz_Feature_The_1952_Mercedes_Benz_300_SL_Racing_Sport_Coupe.html
http://madone.com.au/cnd/cotd_pdf/COTD_Mercedes_Benz_300_SL_1952.pdf
http://eblog.mercedes-benz-passion.com/2010/01/mercedes-benz-300-sl-w-194-of-19521953/
http://www.turbo.fr/photos-voiture/photos-retromobile-2009-on-vous-dit-tout-sur-les-modeles-incontournables-du-salon-54476.html
 
I love conversations that include building stuff from the ground up! :)

Im curious as to what most people would find valuable in an 'EV-1" kit, is it the possibility of owning an actual EV-1 "lookalike" due to nostalgia for the car itself and its history / prominence?

Or is it more about building something from a kit and having a preditermined (mildly idiot proof) set of stuff that will almost certainly fit together and work without killing anyone?

In example a) Potential problems from GM, or Solectra, and potential problems in "getting it exactly right" from a reproduction perspective. as well as major, hard to reproduce parts like windows etc.

in example b) one could do a similar look to the EV-1, Solectra, add some new, community inspired features, standardise on what is truly a "new design" and build kits.

One last thing, the Bug-e has a neat business model in that the design comes from Blusky and they Liscence out the rights to manufacture and sell various components to other companies, very cool.
 
For people who want to know more about the EV-1 and his history. This is a great 32 minute video to watch from 2005. It features Doug Korthof, Chelsea Sexton, Linda Nichols, Wally Rippel and others.

[googlevid]-3974264721033016884[/googlevid]
[youtube]ExTQHhnAVS4[/youtube]
[youtube]H_A98NOWmUw[/youtube]
 
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