Puma 500W Rear-140USD. 500W Front, 350W 135USD

[cell_man]

Gents,

I have both the 500W and 350W at 36V Puma (Mac) motors ready to ship. The 500W motor is available for both front and rear wheel installation, but the front can only be used with rim brakes. Rear is disk brake compatible and can accept a 7 speed freewheel with 135mm dropout. 350W front is disk brake compatible, as is the 350W rear. These motors are primarily intended for a 26" or 700C sized rim but with some overvolts you could run them in a smaller rim. The 350W motor is a little cheaper, will get back with an exact price soon. Shipping options at present are EMS at 35% discount, standard Air and Sea Freight. Paypal adds additional 6% (sorry that is what it costs me).

These motors will comfortable run at 48V and quite a few have also ran them at 60V. Below is a some data I collected from the 500W motor. Even though these are described as a 500W motor they actually pull all the current you can hrow at them and I have personally seen about 1000W on a 36V pack with 25A controller and about 1800W on a 48V pack with 35A controller:

No load RPM with 38.2V supply, 365rpm
36V pack (38V under load), no pedalling, you're looking at almost 40kph, but typically expect about 37kph or so.
48V pack (approximately 50V under load), you're looking at mid to high 40s kph.
A member on the forum (not supplied by myself, but same motor) has reported 55kph at 60V. See attached dyno graph for the 500W motor (the 1000W @ 48V plot is the same motor just run at a higher voltage).

Hub Motor 36V500W Performance.pdf

(33.89 KiB) Downloaded 775 times

Hub Motor 48V1000W Performance.pdf

(34.45 KiB) Downloaded 638 times

The 500W motor comes with a no cost option single steel gear, but not all of them are fitted with these so it's first come first served till I can get some more. The steel gear does make the motor a bit more noisy but I would not describe it as a noisy motor either way. They're not as quiet as the new breed of Bafang, but they're not overly loud.

I also have some high speed 500W motors. These are 485rpm at 38.6V no load. I ordered a few of these for a dual motor bike which has turned out pretty good so far but they would also work well in a smaller rim. Not recommended for a single motor in a 26" rim, although they could work well with a higher current limit controller, but I haven't personally tried that yet.

Here's a few pics:

350W front, with disk, polished finish

500W rear, with disk, painted finish

For wheel building in the USA, drop johnrobholmes a PM. I may be able to arrange for the motors to be fitted into rims in the future but as yet I do not have the parts in stock.

Drop me a PM or send an email to emissions-free_worldwide (at) hotmail.com

Thanks
Paul

[Mark_A_W]

A member on the forum (not supplied by myself, but same motor) has reported 55kph at 60V.

Me.


Yep, 20 Headway cells, 60v (or perhaps 20 x 3.2v = 64v nominal).

No load speed is between 75 and 80kmh, depending on surface charge.

Can hit 55kmh+ with pedalling, on the flat. Motor can draw 1500w+ at this speed, due to high Kv (back EMF not playing much part yet).


The metal gear is noisy. (Ask them to engineer something in between Nylon and Steel. Cloth reinforced bakelite, or a glass filled plastic.) But it works, I haven't stripped the gears (yet) with 64v and 40A.


Mark

[cell_man]

Thanks Mark. I've personally been using a front 500W motor at both 36V and 48V for over 6 months now and this is fitted with the nylon gears which have held up just fine. I feel the nylon gears are fine for 48V and normal usage. The steel is really only for those who want to push the limits a bit. For a high power geared Hub motor this is a good price.

By the way weights are as follows:
rear 500W - 4.3kg
front 350W - 3.7kg.

[BiGH]

do these motors require the analog controllers? or can you use a digital based crystallite?

[cell_man]

These motors are very similar to the BMC motors. They have a 32 pole motor and use a 5:1 gear so the controller needs to have quite a high max switching frequency to operate smoothly at high rpm. Typical ecrazyman controllers work fine with these. The only thing that you need to be a little careful with is the phase current, as they have rather low resistance windings, so the max phase current needs to be set a bit higher than a typical 500W motor. These motors are not some new unknown motor, they have been around for quite a while and they get good reviews from what I've seen.

If you need a quote for shipping etc, just drop me a line.

[BiGH]

These motors are not some new unknown motor, they have been around for quite a while and they get good reviews from what I've seen.

If you need a quote for shipping etc, just drop me a line.

I'm very aware of that - when i was looking for my original motor, years back, it was out of BMC or c-lyte. This is a great price for a BMC. The reason I asked about the controllers is I have a 48a 48-72v 12x 4110 based clyte controller spare

[cell_man]

I'm sorry I'm not actually familiar with your model of controller I'm afraid but I'm sure there are others on ES that could let you know if it's ok. Just to repeat these are not BMC motors but they are generally acknowledged to be very similar (spookily so..., but these are not a rip off, if anything I'm reliably informed that these were around before the BMC).

I'm personally very happy with how the motors perform and I am very local to the factory so spares and support should be no problem in the future. For Shipping to Oz, the sea freight option is only about 25USD if you don't mind the wait, Air Freight is gonna be about 70USD.

[shinyballs]

This is a good deal for this motors... with steel gears, I don't mind the noise unless its defeaning/earsplitting and affects riding safety. You can also be heard by pedestrians, motorists, cyclists, etc... Do you have pics of the insides?

[Mark_A_W]

do these motors require the analog controllers? or can you use a digital based crystallite?

My gut feel is it won't. Illia at ebikes-sf had issues, I think with rough acceleration at low speed.


But, you can try. At worst you'd need to buy an Infineon or Crystalyte Analogue controller afterwood.


I like the Infineons as they are programmable via USB.

[cell_man]

This is a good deal for this motors... with steel gears, I don't mind the noise unless its defeaning/earsplitting and affects riding safety. You can also be heard by pedestrians, motorists, cyclists, etc... Do you have pics of the insides?

I would honestly say that the noise is not particularly loud but I did notice a small additional noise between the standard and steel gear. For example I've used the 108 cute motors and they are at least as vocal or moreso than the standard Puma motor, but nobody has said these are particularly noisy. Whereas the standard gear will tend to mask lets say a controller that oscillates at high frequency, the steel gear will amplify it, but if the controller is working well, the sound is really not so bad. If you're not gonna be pushing them really hard, the steel gear is probably not necessary. I'll be making sure I have some spare parts stocked and will make sure they are at a good price. I know 1 user on ES was running the standard gears at 72V, 45A for some time before he blew the standard gears and that was only when he jumped a kerb with the accelerator pinned.

I'll get some prices for the spares this week and try to get some in. I could always throw some additional spares in with the motors for an additional charge if that's what's required but I do know they are waiting on the steel gear from their supplier.

By the way, attached is the outline for the rear motors:

Rear Motor M12060D7-1W Outline.pdf

(151.75 KiB) Downloaded 374 times

[scriewy]

i dont remember if i asked this already or just planed to ask this but didnt ask, are BMC ezee MAC or puma gear wheels the same size and interchangable ? in case i'd wanna put the BMC composit glass gears in puma before i'l feel i must put metal gear.

[cell_man]

i dont remember if i asked this already or just planed to ask this but didnt ask, are BMC ezee MAC or puma gear wheels the same size and interchangable ? in case i'd wanna put the BMC composit glass gears in puma before i'l feel i must put metal gear.

I'm sorry I do not know if they are the same size or interchangeable. I will try to find out.

[Mark_A_W]

cell-man, I seriously would not use the steel gear.

Running steel gears dry (the grease flings off) is a really bad idea. My steel gear is badly worn after 200km. The fixed Sun gear and Ring gears do not show any sign of wear, they are much harder than the steel planet gear (luckily).


And it just gets noisier and noisier. If you guys do use the steel gear, squirt 30-50ml of synthetic oil in your motor and silicone it shut. Do not run it dry, and grease does not count.


I would also stick to a 30amp limit. I was running 40amps at 64v, and the motor started to fail. The keyway in the axle, and the key, are deformed. The pressed posts that hold the gears are working loose.


I have re-fitted the plastic gear, and at 30 amps, the motor is great. Still pulls well, and it's QUIET. Feels rock solid, but it's early days.



Do you have any spare freewheel/gear assy's for sale? Just in case...


Overall, I'm very happy with this motor, and the price is fantastic. But there are limits, and I do not recommend the steel gear.


Cheers

Mark

[cell_man]

Thanks Mark,

I'll see where we are with spare gears and will voice your concerns over the steel gears. However the steel gear was a common mod on the Bafang motors and was done at the request of users, mostly from ES as far as I can tell. I would also say you are running the motor well outside of it's rating and you also seem to be using this for jumps offroad etc. Running geared hub motors at significant overvolts and doing jumps etc is not gonna have a very good effect on the motors longevity. The shock that the motor experiences when it spins up with no load and then hits the ground again is what typically trashes gears. However, I do hear your concerns about the metal gear and do agree it does make the motor noisier.

I'm also not convinced that putting engine oil in there is a wise move. I don't know enough about gears to comment with any certainty but I do know these motors were never intended to be used in this way and the grease used was carefully selected for the purpose and that will have now been washed away. Even the 1000W BMC that supposedly has "all the bugs ironed out" is not recommended to be used much above about 1500W and that costs how much? The Mac factory does not recommend over 48V and if you choose to use 48V they recommend max 25A.

I'll see what I can do about supplying the motors with maybe a full set of nylon gears and a spare steel or some combination like that. The factory do not have any plans to change to a new gear material as they feel the motors already exceed the rated performance and these motors do not particularly have a reputation as having weak gears. The Mac Motors have been available for a considerable length of time and I was unable to find anything particularly negative about them on ES when I looked into it.

[Mark_A_W]

No, I don't really go offroad (dirt road, but not offroad) and the biggest jump is a gutter/kerb.

But yes, I have been abusing this motor.


Still, it seems to me staying in the limits of the rest of the motor (keyways, posts) means that the nylon gears are adequate. The steel gears are not needed.

[cell_man]

Thanks Mark for your feedback. After speaking with the manufacturer these steel gears are still relatively new and have received quite positive response from the buyers so far but in future I will likely supply the motors fitted with the standard plastic gears and supply an additional single steel gear if requested. I'll try to get some spare gears and assemblies soon but I don't know exact prices yet.

To be perfectly honest the levels you are pushing the motor to is pushing the limits a bit for any geared hub motor and you may have to wind it back a bit to maintain reasonable reliability. Maybe a dual motor setup would give you the performance you are after without pushing the limits. It doesn't necessarily have to be a pair of Puma motors. There are other smaller motors such as some of the bigger cute Ananda motors that might be nice in a dual motor setup.

[Kevinator]

what's shipping look like to the US?

[kriskros]

i am using a puma with 36v 20amp foxx power and infineon controller [justin] no problems at anny speed.... good torque and speed ...smooth takeoff... all nylon gears

[cell_man]

Hi Kevin,

Shipping to USA is gonna be 80USD by EMS and should arrive very quickly. Sea freight can be had for less than 30USD but it can take a looooong time. Paypal unfortunately adds 6%, so 254USD total by EMS and should arrive within 1 week. I'm trying to find better shipping deals as anything not batteries should be a bit easier to ship so I can shop around a bit more, but that's what I can offer ATM. For some countries I can get good Air Freight Rates but for USA it's not so good.

Cheers
Paul

[Kevinator]

Hi Kevin,

Shipping to USA is gonna be 80USD by EMS and should arrive very quickly. Sea freight can be had for less than 30USD but it can take a looooong time. Paypal unfortunately adds 6%, so 254USD total by EMS and should arrive within 1 week. I'm trying to find better shipping deals as anything not batteries should be a bit easier to ship so I can shop around a bit more, but that's what I can offer ATM. For some countries I can get good Air Freight Rates but for USA it's not so good.

Cheers
Paul

Thanks for the shipping quote Paul. Any ideas long does the sea freight actually takes? Are the 350w motors smaller than the 500w in diameter or do they have the same physical dimensions? If they're smaller, I may be interested in a Puma front/rear disc pair. Otherwise, I may be interested in a Puma 500w disc rear. Are you selling cute motors yet? Got any front bafangs?

Sorry for so many questions on here instead of PM, but I figured it might help others who may have similar questions. The Pumas look like a very cost effective alternative to the BMC's and I like the fact there's the option of a steel gear.

[cell_man]

Hi Kevin,

the sea freight can really vary from my experience. It's luck of the draw. As far as I know the sea freight would be consolidated so it might arrive in less than a month or it could take 2 months if the parcel misses the boat.

The rear 350W and 500W motors use identical cases but the front 350W (with disk) case is different to the 500W (no disk), but all have the same spoke radius of 172mm. Below is the outline for the different cases. Bear in mind the 350W is a slower winding with about 300rpm at 36V compared to the 500W which is 365rpm at 36V.

Front Motor M12180D0-1W Outline.pdf

(151.42 KiB) Downloaded 119 times

Front Motor M12180T-1W Outline.pdf

(146.68 KiB) Downloaded 78 times

Rear Motor M12060D7-1W Outline.pdf

(151.75 KiB) Downloaded 150 times

The jury is still out on the steel gear so if I send out any motors from now I'll be sending nylon gears unless otherwise requested but will throw in a spare steel while available or spare nylon if steel is fitted.

Sorry no Bafangs or Cutes at the moment but hopefully in the future I can start to offer a much wider range of products. I've got so bogged down in the cell stuff, so I'm not getting as much done in other areas as I would have liked.

[jateureka]

Ho Cell_man,

Just wondering where abouts you are located as it doesn't say on your post sidebar.

[cell_man]

Ho Cell_man,

Just wondering where abouts you are located as it doesn't say on your post sidebar.

Sorry, wasn't trying to hide anything. Now added my location to my profile details.

[electrikiwi]

HI what's shipping look like to New Zealand?

[cell_man]

HI what's shipping look like to New Zealand?

Hi,

you are looking at 73USD shipping to New Zealand by EMS.