My 5kw-h "Sport Tourer" (with HD video)

[grindz145]

Just calculated the total mileage I can expect to get out of this pack...: 40k mi or 70 days of continuous riding...

[dequinox]

Awesome build! I really want to do a long range longtail also...I'm looking at 60ah TS or Foxx cells for the simplicity of pack assembly. I'm new to lithium in that I haven't been able to play with it just yet

What a range though...and the life expectancy seems on par with motorcycle's and cars before their first major overhaul. Well done sir!

[grindz145]

:shock: Awesome build! I really want to do a long range longtail also...I'm looking at 60ah TS or Foxx cells for the simplicity of pack assembly. I'm new to lithium in that I haven't been able to play with it just yet

What a range though...and the life expectancy seems on par with motorcycle's and cars before their first major overhaul. Well done sir!

Thanks!

To take it further, the battery costs are about 5.1 cents per mile when you include energy cost and amortization of the pack (and assuming $500 / KWh). However, with thundersky cells (or anything lifepo4) you should be able to get 5-10X the cycles out of the pack! However, the weight is significantly more so the pack itself may have to be smaller which would end up with a smaller overall distance it would travel. I like to do these kind of calculations.

Comparing that to my ST1300 which consequently has round 40K miles, I have spent around $3K in gasoline alone (ugh) to get it that far. So apples to apples its about 7.9 cents/mile. Admittedly my ST1300 is a much more capable machine. However, introduce some mass production into the equation and I would say that the battery technology is definitely there. Hell, this doesn't take into account oil changes either, or the cost of huffing gas fumes..

Keep me posted on your project

[nuvola]

Hi grind,
I've some questions for you?
which is the total weight of your ebike without driver?
have you never tried to go down from high mountains?
I've a 48V60ah lion battery carried by a cargo trail and I've some problem braking on 10% downhill.
my ebike is 15kg(bike)+8kg(9c)+30kg(battery)+2kg(tools)+8kg(cargo)=63kg plus my body.
How do you resolved this problem?
I use a trekking bike which can carry at least 7" idraulic rotor but the breaking power it's not enouugh.

[grindz145]

Hi grind,
I've some questions for you?
which is the total weight of your ebike without driver?
have you never tried to go down from high mountains?
I've a 48V60ah lion battery carried by a cargo trail and I've some problem braking on 10% downhill.
my ebike is 15kg(bike)+8kg(9c)+30kg(battery)+2kg(tools)+8kg(cargo)=63kg plus my body.
How do you resolved this problem?
I use a trekking bike which can carry at least 7" idraulic rotor but the breaking power it's not enouugh.

Hello!

The bike is ~110lbs or about 50 kgs.

My breaking power is DEFINATELY enough:D Here's my recommendation:

Crappy hydraulic disc brakes are < good mechanical discs. I'm using the BB7s which are (arguably) the best mechanical disk breaks you can get (and they are an 8 inch rotor).

What model disc brakes are you using?

[liveforphysics]

I love that your pack can dump 5kw as 1C discharge, and keep it up for an hour. There is something so nice about having all the range you need to do and go anywhere you like.

Kudos!

-Luke

[nuvola]

I started with a kit by shimano (M486 with a 6" rotor), but I've quickly understood that on hills is not enough.
Than I tried to change just the rotor with a 7" (XT model) but still not enough.
Now I'm tryng to using a 8" rotor (I think it's a shimano deore) but I've problem because my fork hasn't necessary space to mount it!!
I plan to switch to Avid juicy 5 (that I already have it, so no more money spent) to see how much power can I gain.
If juicy 5 will not give me desirable break power, the only solution is try to mount a MTB fork and a real powerfull brake like Shimano Saint, Avid Code all with 8" rotor and so on....
My bike is trekking bike and use to work with 28" wheels, so I need to check if a 28" wheel could have enough space on MTB 26" fork.
Because another problem is using a so powerfull brake with a fork that isn't designed to work with those deceleration.

Just note that actually I don't have a rear brake (I'm still working on it...)

Hello!

The bike is ~110lbs or about 50 kgs.

My breaking power is DEFINATELY enough:D Here's my recommendation:

Crappy hydraulic disc brakes are < good mechanical discs. I'm using the BB7s which are (arguably) the best mechanical disk breaks you can get (and they are an 8 inch rotor).

What model disc brakes are you using?

[grindz145]

I started with a kit by shimano (M486 with a 6" rotor), but I've quickly understood that on hills is not enough.
Than I tried to change just the rotor with a 7" (XT model) but still not enough.
Now I'm tryng to using a 8" rotor (I think it's a shimano deore) but I've problem because my fork hasn't necessary space to mount it!!
I plan to switch to Avid juicy 5 (that I already have it, so no more money spent) to see how much power can I gain.
If juicy 5 will not give me desirable break power, the only solution is try to mount a MTB fork and a real powerfull brake like Shimano Saint, Avid Code all with 8" rotor and so on....
My bike is trekking bike and use to work with 28" wheels, so I need to check if a 28" wheel could have enough space on MTB 26" fork.
Because another problem is using a so powerfull brake with a fork that isn't designed to work with those deceleration.

Just note that actually I don't have a rear brake (I'm still working on it...)

Hello!

The bike is ~110lbs or about 50 kgs.

My breaking power is DEFINATELY enough:D Here's my recommendation:

Crappy hydraulic disc brakes are < good mechanical discs. I'm using the BB7s which are (arguably) the best mechanical disk breaks you can get (and they are an 8 inch rotor).

What model disc brakes are you using?

I would bet that the Juicys would make all the difference. However, don't underestimate a good mechanical disk.
I've just experienced a huge range of performance from different bicycle disk brakes, they're definitely not created equal.

The extra 30 percent or so stopping power of adding a rear break might help as well... although my rear brake alone is almost enough to slow the whole bike down from 30mph pretty quick.

[grindz145]

I love that your pack can dump 5kw as 1C discharge, and keep it up for an hour. There is something so nice about having all the range you need to do and go anywhere you like.

Kudos!

-Luke

I have some purist bicycle friends that ask me why electric?

I ask them if they can ride a double-century w/ luggage.

Crickets.

[grindz145]

I put on 52 miles yesterday without flinching, I only lost about 1 volt on the back during the whole ride, Average speed 27mph, 1.3Kwh consumed (though my current shunt is calibrated a bit high right now, purposely, in reality it aught to be a bit lower), 25.6 wh/mile.

It's interesting how the regen works on these infineon controllers. Essentially I managed to get about 4 amps regen current coming down a large hill. However, I have regen braking disabled. This actually works well because I don't want to hit the battery with huge slugs of current anyway.

I ride motorcycles every day, but there is just something about a bicycle that doesn't make any noise and can cruise at 30, its awesome.

I went through a local festival too (Fairport canal days), and needless to say I got a look or two . I walked it through the crowd (try doing that with a motorcycle) and pretty much every person I passed said something either to me or just out loud to themselves. And I thought this was a little LESS conspicuous than it could have been

At the Rochester Hamfest I managed to pick up a nice panel-mount ammeter which I'm going to use to build a better charger and a set of 15V computer speakers which I plan to mount on the bike somehow.

[grindz145]

Put another 56 miles on yesterday!!

Average speed 23, average wh/mile 27, 1.6Kwh. Started out at 63 ish volts, ended up with about 56V. I suspect it would sit at this voltage for a LONG time, another 100mi at least before dropping much more.

It did drop out on me and I lost a phase. I still haven't terminated the phase wires on the motor correctly, and on of the bullet connectors I have jammed into a powerpole, came out. Need to fix this soon. In the mean time I just electrical taped it back together

I have been babying it until now but I am starting to really dump alot of current through it. I'm not shy to dump 20a through the motor continuously, and peak around 35 (yeah I know I'm being a wus but I'm waiting to really run it hard until I have a temperature sensor installed)

Up to about 217miles on the clock now, just a baby, still working out the kinks:D


I've ridden all kinds of bikes all over the country, but there is nothing like the feeling of flying down the road on an ebike, so smooth and quiet.

[grindz145]

Sport Touring Ebike Hearts Dirt Jumper: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19396

[grindz145]

Took a lot of time re-jiggering a bunch of little things yesterday. Lost the bolt on the torque arm so I set that up with some lock tite. Connectorized a bunch of things that should have been already. Then did about 50 miles last night, all the while pumping tunes from a set of computer speakers. Used the Halogen light from Ebikes.ca as well. What a nice product! Especially for the 10 bucks I paid for it:D

I passed 2 currie ebikes on the way home, talk about surreal. The chances of that around here are practically 0. Up to about 360 miles on the bike now.It's really at a point I can ride it every day without worrying now.

[grindz145]

Rolled over 1000mi today. Still going strong. No problems to report at all in 1kmi except a couple of flats due to a crappy rim strip. Routinely pulling 60 Amps at takeoff...

[grindz145]

Havn't ridden a ton this fall because of having to ride to school in the cold-rain after work 80mph on the freeway on the ebike is still frowned upon...

Im at about 1200 miles and I rode to the local hackerspace in rochester the other night. I put a connector on for my gerbing heated jacket liner and gloves. It was a windy and cold (30 degrees) ride out to the city. The gerbings were fantastic. Not cold at all, nice and toasty. On the way home I found that the snapdeck of the xtracycle was dragging on the tire...ugh. I just snapped off and pulled it away from the tire for the rest of the 20 miles home. All the while, I was trying to figure out in my head what would allow the top of the xtracycle to bend such that it would hit the tire. When I got home I came to the realization that the back portion of the xtracycle must be bent (the section behind the axle). The xtracycle can handle a huge amount of cargo but it specifies that it needs to be in front of the axle for obvious reasons. Since my pack was kind of slanting backward, the better part of the 80 lbs was on the rear of the xtracycle and over time this was forcing it down.

It shouldn't be a terrible fix, but it's about time to start tearing it down for an upgrade to version 2.0. Here's what I'm thinking:

Needs:
-Remount batteries rigidly to the frame with the help of a Wideloader kit (xtracycle accessory).
-Reinforce the xtracycle and add struts (somehow) to the main bicycle frame
-Rebuild wiring harness as cleanly as possible
-Add USB charging regulator
-New crank with large top ring (60 tooth?)
-Adjust brake cables

Wants:
-Install Delta-Wye switching relays into the hub-motor (Do I really need 40+mph....) might be handy during a cross-country tour
-Beef up phase wires leading
-Install Thermal Sensors
-Drill ventillation holes in side-covers
(I'm not sure how I feel about this for weather-resistance
-Mount for my phone / camera
-twist throttle
-Integrated rear light (powered by main battery pack)


I'm considering a very long trip with it next summer. Maybe a cross-the-US tour. So it really has to stay reliable, and so far it has been fairly reliable even with the crappy mounting setup.

[neooperator]

This Bike is Crazy Cool...

I like it...

[grindz145]

I'm resurrecting this thread to do some updates. Poor bike has been sitting for months getting some upgrades and hiding from the salt. Heres a quick video showing where I'm at:

[grindz145]

Quick video I didn't even bother editing, pardon my dorkiness.

God I love lipo

nanotech FTW.

P.S. watch out THUNDERDROME!

[grindz145]

A little video from some ebike racing at THUNDERDROME!

http://vimeo.com/23343676

[grindz145]

[grindz145]

UGH! I managed to snap the entire left rear side of the xtracycle.... I guess 5.5 KWH is just too much weight for it . Anyway, time to rethink this frame a bit...

[Thud]

Bummer!
detroit pounding couldn't have helped.....I see you needed a track fix at the HS feild (your hooked bro!)

waiting for your next upgrade.......patiently.

[amberwolf]

UGH! I managed to snap the entire left rear side of the xtracycle.... I guess 5.5 KWH is just too much weight for it . Anyway, time to rethink this frame a bit...

Snap? Ouch. How much does that 5.5KWh weigh?

At least it can be welded back together (or brazed). Did it snap at a joint or elsewhere? I'm curious about any kind of frame failures, as they teach me about what to do and not to do on my own stuff.

Pics would be nifty, too.

[grindz145]

Bummer!
I see you needed a track fix at the HS feild

That was a play out of Knoxie's playbook Detroit definitely didn't help but the weight I have on there most of the time is the problem.

[grindz145]

UGH! I managed to snap the entire left rear side of the xtracycle.... I guess 5.5 KWH is just too much weight for it . Anyway, time to rethink this frame a bit...

Snap? Ouch. How much does that 5.5KWh weigh?

At least it can be welded back together (or brazed). Did it snap at a joint or elsewhere? I'm curious about any kind of frame failures, as they teach me about what to do and not to do on my own stuff.

Pics would be nifty, too.

I grab some video soon and post it up. It didnt snap at a joint but rather right past the rear axle. There is a huge lever arm on these things all the way to the back of the xtracycle. I rode it home late Saturday and I thought it felt kind of wobbley, and then I checked out the frame and sure enough, it was snapped clear off, not even connected at all. The other side has a big crack in it too.

Ill post a video with the gorey details soon