The official "My Tidalforce S-750 frame creation" thread

[mikeross]

My turn! Here are a couple pics of my *finished* product.





Now to get out and put on some miles! Thanks JD for making these frames available. The Tidalforce S-750 sure makes for some nice ebikes!

Mike

[ambroseliao]

That's a nice looking bike!

Where did you get that slick chain guard?

Ambrose

[mikeross]

Hi, Ambrose: Thanks! That is an SKS "Chainboard". I bought it off the internet from Niagara Cycle Works (on Amazon.com). They are sized according to the number of teeth on your chain ring, and require a bit of monkeying around with to get to fit correctly. You also have to remove the crank cassette - the mount goes behind the cassette. But, it is pretty neat once you get it on. Oh, also, I only have one chain ring - I never use much more than the top three gears anyway - might be a tight fit if you have more than one front chain ring.

Mike

[ambroseliao]

Thanks Mike,

That's very helpful information. I didn't know they existed. As for the fit, it sounds good since as with you, I never use any gear lower than the top 3 on my bike. I have upgraded from the standard 48T top crank to a Shimano Tiagra (rhymes with Viagra!) 52T crank so will look for the right sized one.

Ambrose

[ambroseliao]

Just checked and they don't make a 52T version. The largest seems to be 48T.

http://www.sks-germany.com/sks.php?l=en ... 2290500400

Ambrose

[mikeross]

Ambrose: That's too bad - mine is a 48T and just barely fits in there. Yours probably wouldn't fit or you would have to destroy the ring part to make it fit, which would pretty much defeat the whole purpose. You have a *MONSTER* front chain ring!

Mike

[ambroseliao]

It's not a monster, but it's pretty big!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_cEQyAWzQl58/S ... G_1901.jpg

Ambrose

[ambroseliao]

I've updated my TF bike to a rear motor 9C e-BikeKit.com motor with a 72V Bosch Fat Pack battery. It's a very sweet ride. Stable and very powerful. With the 150mm Manitou front suspension fork and only a bit of leaning back, you can pop a wheelie!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_cEQyAWzQl58/T ... G_2018.JPG

Fresh off the charger, I have it at 83.8V but it quickly drops to around 80V. It's fairly inconspicuous with the batteries in the rear rack bag.

I'm loving it!

Ambrose

[AngieM]

I'm new to all this, so please forgive naive-sounding comments. I just saw Ypedal's video and have to ask: are all ebike kits so NOISY?? And so many wires on the bars?
There are SO many different ideas, opinions, suggestions and ways to go that my brain is a bit fried right now. I'm thinking about just going with a ready-made Currie iZip Zuma:

http://www.currietech.com/currie-techno ... c-bike.php

I'm a senior gal and in this small town there won't be much help putting together a kit, although I'd love to try. With a discount this iZip will cost me $1,529.10 wtih free shipping.
I'm open, though, to anyone's advice here, telling me if I'm on the wrong track. Any suggestions, please?

[BikeFanatic]

hi Angie,
welcome to the forum, there is a ton of information on E bikes here maybe cruise ebike general discussion or search Currie,
But that bike is new and I have not read much about it. It does look like a nice bike. 36 volt lithium is a big upgrade over my old currie mongoose 24 volt lead acid bike. Your nbike will be heavy at 57 lbs, so hope you can store it in your garage or shed.
Otherwise that looks like a good bike, I have had good experience with currie.

The bike you are looking at has a HUB motor they are very quiet. Most people observe me on my
electric bike say my Hub motor is silent but it does make some noise when moving. Now Ypedal
has the noisy bike because he has a non hub, Chain drive RC motor which is very loud.
Here is a link to my you tube video page showing the hub motor bike- the video with the two passengers is the hub motor, the microphone is powerful on the video camera so you can hear it makes some sound, but not much. It is working hard too with the passengers and cargo , ALso if you look at my other videos I have a louder chain driven E bike the voloci.
remember The hub bike is the one with the passenger.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ianmcnally# ... TBf3MTnFo8

I think you should get that bike if you have any problems call Currie, I had a currie way back when. They shipped me a new battery when the one they sent wasnt working. The bike I had only went 15 MPH but was FUN. Now I like 20 mph better.

[pvorlicek]

I'm new to all this, so please forgive naive-sounding comments. I just saw Ypedal's video and have to ask: are all ebike kits so NOISY?? And so many wires on the bars?
There are SO many different ideas, opinions, suggestions and ways to go that my brain is a bit fried right now. I'm thinking about just going with a ready-made Currie iZip Zuma:

http://www.currietech.com/currie-techno ... c-bike.php

I'm a senior gal and in this small town there won't be much help putting together a kit, although I'd love to try. With a discount this iZip will cost me $1,529.10 wtih free shipping.
I'm open, though, to anyone's advice here, telling me if I'm on the wrong track. Any suggestions, please?

My advice: DO NOT GET AN ELECTRIC BIKE. If you are a senior citizen who has no desire to learn how to put together a kit, you will quickly get frustrated with the electric bike world. Ianmcnally talks about replacing a 36V battery (with LOTS of stored energy that could hurt you bad if you short the battery) ... is this something you would be comfortable doing? Are you ready to lug around a 60 pound bike? And your annoyed by wires? How are you going to replace your battery if you are annoyed by wires?

If you don't take my advice, at least buy from a local dealer so you get support (to replace your battery ...) and carry a cell phone at all times.

My 2 cents worth.

[mikeross]

I've updated my TF bike to a rear motor 9C e-BikeKit.com motor with a 72V Bosch Fat Pack battery. It's a very sweet ride. Stable and very powerful. With the 150mm Manitou front suspension fork and only a bit of leaning back, you can pop a wheelie!

Ambrose - Very nice! That is a mighty clean looking build. 72V! You have definitely moved it up a notch. I was just thinking - maybe 48V for mine because that's what the controller will handle...but 72V and wheelies...hmmm....just what I (don't) need! Nice work!


@AngieM - my 2cents worth.... I would not be afraid to go for an electric bike, but it does seem better for you to purchase one that's already built such as the Currie. My first electric bike was a Giant. It did not require much maintenance, but when it did it was a pain because I purchased it in Seattle, about a 4 hour drive from my house. One disadvantage of the pre-built bikes is that they will have certain parts specific to that brand, which means a local bike shop won't have replacement parts. So, my advice would be to purchase a name brand, pre-built electric bike locally. Get a lithium battery over a lead acid battery, if your budget will allow it. In my experience 20 mph is a great plenty on a bicycle, although you will read LOTS here on the forum where that would be laughable. Remember, this forum has everything from serious off-road riders, to speed demons, to folks who just want to go for a nice, easy ride from time to time. But, we all love our electric bikes! Welcome to the Endless Sphere forum!

Mike

[Ypedal]

True !!.. and Welcome to the sphere .

Yes, my TF bike is very loud .. it has a motor made for a Remote Control airplane spinning a bunch of chains and belts, it's a hoot to ride but certainly not for everyone.

If spending 1400$ on an electric bike is not something that makes you feel ill, consider an eZee kit from ebikes.ca, i've installed this for a few 60+, both women and men. The ezee is smooth and quiet, light, and is easy to install really.. and with the help of this forum you have all the help you should ever need as long as you can read.

myself who runs 100% throttle all the time i tend to like the high voltage and heavy duty bikes, heck, Ann loved my chopper !!

[oatnet]

Hi Angie!

If you intend to spend a lot of time on the bike and are not eager to spend time maintaining it, I would highly recommend a bike from "E+" or ultramotor's ATB. This would put you in the $2,500-$3,500 range, but both are manufactured to much higher standards than the currie, and have less complex drive systems. Unless/until you find working on them to be fun, I would not recommend a kit. The A2B and E+ both have superb balance which is hard to achieve in a kit, and often overlooked by manufacturers, but very helpful to seniors.

I believe the A2B is a more versatile package (and less expensive), and the E+ is better balanced and faster, but you can't go wrong with either.
http://epluselectricbike.com/
http://www.ultramotor.com/us/home/

I am approaching seniorhood myself, and my mother rides a precursor to the E+ , a "wavecrest tidalforce io cruiser." Old Tidalforce can be had for under $1,000, but the batteries are so old by now that range is limited to 6-10 miles.

[tritonwow]

I'm 98% complete on the build so I'll post up here. I need to finish a battery box and a few other minor things but it's ridable as is.
Tidalforce red S-750 frame
JRH 26" wheelset (all black with alternating red nipples and Bafang SWXH rear hub motor; matching front wheel)
Rock Shoxx Dart2 forks (using disc only Dart3 lowers)
FSA PIG PRO headset
Avid BB7 mechanical 160mm disc brakes
DMR Wingbar cromo lowriser bar
Ergon grips
Thudbuster LT seatpost
n'lock security stem
OEM crankset, seat, and kickstand
Cycle Analyst (CA)
ZIPPY Flightmax 5000mAh 6S1P 15C (for 44.4v10Ah)
Infineon 25A brushless controller with 6xIRLB4030 mosfets, ON/OFF button, Fwd/Rev, ebrake, and CA connectors
Andersen Powerpole 30 and 45a connectors
Magura half twist throttle
Ayup lights

The build thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14629&start=15

And a few pics:

S750 with power (Small).JPG

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S750 with power 1 (Small).JPG

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Thanks JD for the frame and JRH for the wheelset!

Triton

[mikeross]

Hey, Triton, you forgot the motor! Wow! Very nice. I really like the way that Bafang looks as compared to the 9C. How do you like the performance from that motor? Is it noisy, does it get hot? I am not familiar with the n'lock security system. Can you write a bit about what it is, how it works, cost, etc.? Another sweet S-750 hits the road....

Great job on your build.
Mike

[tritonwow]

...How do you like the performance from that motor? Is it noisy, does it get hot?

Mike,
Thanks for the comments. I literally have about 1/2 mile of riding on the bike as I'm not healed up enough from surgery to ride (I took the bike to the corner store and back.) It makes a racket upon startup but settles in once up to speed. I believe the quick video I made has captured the sound but I plan to make a better video this weekend. I was able to perceive warmth through the side of the motor case but could leave my hand on it forever (the axle was at ambient temp) and this was on a 91F and ~90 humidity day (typical summer day here).
John Rob Holmes was able to get the Bafang powdercoated for me when he built the wheel and the fact the brake rotor has a larger diameter than the motor help to fade the motor into the background. I'm working on a different battery/controller box to go up around the headtube which will open the space back up in the triangle further causing the bike to look just like a bike.
I'm not impressed with the 160mm rotor upfront and may go to a 180(?). Honestly I think the v brakes are as good but I'm really unable to physically handle the after effects of grabbing a handful of brakes right now so have been gentle when stopping.
Based on my seat of the pants comparision to my ICE setup I think my top speed is around 15-17mph. It's enough topend for me on a bicycle and I have a few hills on my commute which I'll be able to test it's assit ability.

I am not familiar with the n'lock security system. Can you write a bit about what it is, how it works, cost, etc.?

I'll let the page on elations talk about the n'lock n'lock security stem and add this:
-Background: I've never liked carrying a heavy lock, chain, etc either on the bike or in my pack and I usually park my bike where I only require theft deterrant and not prevention. This fits that task nicely.
-Form: I chose this system because it integrates into the bike beautifully and I plan to incorporate a storage compartment for the additional cable into my battery box.
-Function: It is a well designed and built piece and I think will last for my lifetime. The handlebars rotate freely when engaged making it impossible to drive (which also aids in storage/transportaion) and the cable prevents someone from walking the bike away. I think the cable could be cut rather easily so it only keeps the honest people honest. I bought the adjustable stem and that has helped in setting up the bars to the position I find most comfortable. Installation should be easy for those who have built their own ebike. One may need to cut their fork tube to an appropriate length but I was able to fit it with adjusting my spacers. Operatation is easy peesy.
-Cost: This is relative to the buyer. I'm very fortunate to be in a position where I don't mind paying for something which fits my needs and saves me time (my most precious commodity). I think MOST on this site would consider it expensive (ALOT of creative DIYers here) but I feel the cost was worth the form and function this piece provides. This staement also applies to other things on the bike (ie Ayup lights). I'd love to build my own but choices have to be made on what I devote my freetime. Shipping cost was reasonble and arrived packaged well and in a timely manner. Elation was easy to deal with.

Hope this helps,
Triton

[mikeross]

Triton: That n'lock stem is really interesting. The big advantage is that you don't have to carry around 10 pounds of lock - it is just a part of the bike. Of course, it won't deter the really serious thief, but I don't need that level of security. These S-750 bikes look so nice, they are certainly more of a target than a lot of other bikes.

JRH did a great job for you. The motor is pretty much "invisible". Once I get the major pieces of my build worked out (battery issues up the kazoo), my plan is to have him put my 9C motor into a nicer rim. His work is top-notch. I have read about the Bafang, so appreciate your input on it's real world performance. My riding style is pretty tame - just putt around town, and back and forth to work every day (4 X 1.25 miles/day). Still have my second S-750 frame from Oatnet, so am collecting info on how to make my second build better......

I'm not impressed with the 160mm rotor upfront and may go to a 180(?). Honestly I think the v brakes are as good but I'm really unable to physically handle the after effects of grabbing a handful of brakes right now so have been gentle when stopping.

My bike has a "Skeletal" (I think that's the brand) front disk with the 160mm rotor. I was unimpressed with it when I first started riding my S-750 - the rear V-brake seemed to work as good or better. However, as I've put some miles on, the disk brake seems to be working better and better. You may want to give it some time to "wear in"....

I literally have about 1/2 mile of riding on the bike as I'm not healed up enough from surgery to ride

Very sorry to hear that. I hope you are able to put some serious miles on this great bike real soon!

Mike

[El Duderino X]

The "Urban Electric 69er UberCommuter" at 100% (more or less. Are we ever "really" finished with these bikes?) and a couple months of test riding!

15-07-10_0128.jpg

Mmm... chain guard goodness...

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15-07-10_0130.jpg

That's the ticket!

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eZee 36V front hub w/29" wheel & Schwalbe Marathon Plus (from an earlier ebike build)
36V Lithium battery
cycle analyst
26" Alexrims XDlite w/ Shimano Alfine 8spd IGH & 2" Schwalbe Big Apple (& Mr. Tuffy "brown" tire liner)
Salsa Cromoly 29" fork
ebikes.ca torque arm V3
Sugino single spd crankset
Surly Singleator
MKS EZY pedals
Avid BB7 calipers. The rotors are 180 front. (stock eZee disc), Shimano 160 rear.
Avid SD7 brake levers
MEC grips
Nice & wide Truvativ Hussefelt bar
generic adjustable stem
Cygolite Dual Cross Pro lithium headlamp
SKS Chainboard chain guard
Fizer rear rack (my original rack suffered a catastrophic failure)
full fenders front and rear

etc., etc., etc...

The BionX equipped Tidalforce frame is currently at 95% completion. Similar set up. Pics soon!

B!

[El Duderino X]

And now the Bionx/Tidalforce!

[El_Steak]

Nice bike El Duderino.

I need a chainguard like yours, already scrapt too many pair of pants with my "naked" crankset. Did you get it online?

[El Duderino X]

Thanks for the compliment, El_Steak! These frames are fantastic and I really like what you've done with yours. Great work.

I found my chain guards, SKS Chainboard, here: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=sks+chainboard&x=0&y=0&ih=9_3_1_1_0_0_0_0_0_1.86_118&fsc=5
I believe it was Niagara Cycle Works that purchased them from.
The 48T guard is a bit snug around the 48T ring on the BionX bike but otherwise works quite nicely.

B.

[El Duderino X]

This chain guard is pretty slick, too. http://www.hebie.de/Chainglider-350-38- ... der.0.html

[SunCoaster]

Here's my Tidalforce build; it rides very well as my on campus transportation. Thanks J.D. for the frame.

[Rin]

This was the last silver frame tidal force bike from Oatnet. I used a 9C 10x6 rear motor. My previous bike had an early Ampedbike front 7x9 winding, I think they were 9c's then. Big difference in many ways. The top speed of course is much better, however, it is a dog on the hills. The first bike with 7x9 was great on hills even with a 36v battery. Also the rear motor is a juice hog. I am using the same 36v10ah battery and I got about 20 mile range on the 7x9, pedaling most of the time. The rear motor is only good for about 13 miles. I guess a larger capacity battery will be necessary in the future. However, I really like the extra top end speed and the bike handles really well. I have a Dart 3 front shock which is a much better ride than my previous no front shock bike.

Thanks to Oatnet for the great deal on the frames and I would like to express my appreciation to all the other Tidal Force builders who have posted their experences as well as pictures. All of the posted info gave me a lot to consider in my build and helped me make it a fairly good experience. I am definitely not as handy as many of you and my workshop is pretty basic. However, I am really pleased with the way the bike turned out. Thanks again. Now I think I am off for a ride.