Catrike 700-E build

recumpence

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Hey Guys,

I started this build a while back. But, with the Astro group buy and a few large orders, I was bogged down. I finally found some time to take some pics of the build so far. I will be working on this over the next couple weeks in the evenings and weekends.

Anyway, I am using a 7 turn wye 3220 (Mitch's original motor I swapped him for :wink: ). I will be running 12S 10ah 25C Flightmax lipos through a HV160 controlled by Fechter's current limiter. I am innitially building this with a belt drive reduction unit. So, I will limit it to 4kw. If the belt does not like the torque, I will go with a chain (it is in the case anyway). But, for efficiency sake, I want to try the belt with the 3220. I will probably move to a chain. But we shall see. This build is more about efficiency and light weight than power. But, hey, a little power isn't a bad thing!

So, the drive unit is a direct bolt-on affair using my 2 inch frame mounts. The only special thing I had to do to mount this on the 700 is make a longer bearing tube and jackshaft to move the drive to the right an extra 2 inches. This moves everything out of the way of the chain. It looks like the chain rubs the motor, but it doesn't.

Now, the battery boxes are an interesting item. I poured over this mount system for quite some time and finally came up with what you see here. This is basically my drive unit mount foot and 2 inch frame clamps along with a long piece of bearing tube. This allows nearly infinate adjustability and mounting variations while being SUPER strong! There are the two boxes shown on the left side of the trike and one on the right side just ahead of the drive (not shown in the pictures). Two boxes will hold the four 6S lipo packs and the other will hold the ESC and interface board.

I am targetting 30 to 35mph top speed with this trike. I have ridden it 30mph down hill and it is very stable. But, this thing is not as beefy as my KMX trikes. So, I do not want to go any faster than 35mph. Besides, I think the brake would object.

The weight should come in under 60 pounds. I really would like to see 55 pounds. But, that depends on how many little extras I mount. I will be adding a GPS and some little goodies that may up the weight a touch.

Oh, lastly, I am researching a couple 15X24 inch solar panels. I would mount one to each side of the trike at the rear flanking the rear wheel at about axle height. This would give me 60 watts of charging capacity. It would only extend my range a small amount. But, ultimately they would be used as a way to park in the sun and recharge without being near an outlet. That is still up in the air, though. I need to do more research.

Anyway, I am expecting this setup should be good for 20miles of modest riding without pedalling. Odds are I will mainly use the motor for accelleration and hill climbing. So, in that regard, a solar setup may be good because it will be always adding 50 to 65 watts wether I am pedalling, using the motor or stopped (assuming there is good sunlight). So, a couple solar panels could, indeed, increase my range maybe 50% or more if used in that manor.

So, that is pretty much it. I will post more pics as I have them.

Matt
 

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wow thats neat Matt, I like how it all seems to blend in there like it was always supposed to be there......well maybe ignoring the pedal chain clearance. It seems like a departure from your recent builds ie ... :twisted: power power power :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: but i can see the fun in knowing that if you left it out in the sun long enough you could just ride away without paying a cent....how magic is solar power!! Are they the frame clamps you will be sending me??...till now i have only seen them on your pk but they looked different to that from what i remember.

Rodger
 
They are tough to see in the pictures, but yes, your clamps will look nearly identical to the clamps holding my drive to the frame. Your cases are also the same. Except, this case is 1/2 inch wider for the belt drive. Yours will be narrower due to using a chain drive.

I have a drive sitting here for you. :)

Matt
 
Are those the catrike aftermarket anti sway bars on the back there? My wife has a 700 with oh 17 miles on it ok may 30 but yours makes it look like an even better ebike platform then I had thought. Maybe someday she'll let me get a trike too :D

Those 2" frame mounts are they custom or did you get them somewhere? They look exactly like what I'm trying to poorly make in a 2 1/8" size for a chaindrive project on my 'bent so I figured I'd ask just in case.
 
Looks great Matt!

Question, how are you going to keep the drive from spinning on the 2" tube? Does the mount
clamp tight enough?

I think I'm going to put a cross bar that ties into the seat frame.
 
The frame clamps are made by us at the shop. They hold the frame with tremendous strength! There is no worry of them moving on the frame. They are CNC machined 6061 aluminum using steel barrel bolts for the clamp screws. These clamps are designed to mate with my drive unit output "Foot". They are not a simple, universal mount.

Matt
 
I got the e-drive chain and freewheel installed and some mroe brackets made today. I am 90% done with the mechanical side. Next is just the wiring. I hope to have it running this weekend!

Matt
 
I'm interested to see how you add in the solar panels, if you do.
 
The plan on the solar panels is to mount one on each side of the trike on the lower chainstays. We will machine mounts that clamp to the stays and hold the panels by way of hinges. That way the panels can be swung up out of the way, or folded down. They would also be angle adjustable to move them into the sun. I am pretty sure I will mount solar panels on it. It is purely a matter of money. I am running low. :)

Oh, the solar panels would obviously be folded down most of the time. However, they would mainly be used for stationary charging when I reach my destination. It is hard, while riding, to have them at the perfect angle to the sun. So, most of the charge they give will be while parked with them angled into the sun, just right.

Anyway, there is room for 70 watts of solar power. That would be good for a 4 hour recharge (for my typical riding) or something like 20% range extension for fast riding, or 35% range extension if care is taken.

Matt
 
here's a big tire model

http://www.utahtrikes.com/RECENTTRIKE-Catrike_Monster_Expedition.html

monster_icon.jpg
 
Hi Matt,

A couple of days ago I got an email update for this thread and your 14kw motor thread at the same time and I thought you had decided to use the 14kw motor on the Catrike :lol: :p
recumpence said:
I am initially building this with a belt drive reduction unit. So, I will limit it to 4kw. If the belt does not like the torque, I will go with a chain (it is in the case anyway).…

…Your cases are also the same. Except, this case is 1/2 inch wider for the belt drive. Yours will be narrower due to using a chain drive.
How quiet is the #25 in the case as compared to an open belt?

Are you selling the cases set up for belts?
 
I will decide on what bike to use the new 14kw on once I get the motor here and running. :)

The chain in the case is pretty similar in sound to an open belt (DB level).

Yes, I have cases in stock that are extra deep for the belt drive. I think I have 3 of them machined.

Matt
 
Looking good Matt!
 
This is one of the perfect systems for a basic sensorless setup. It is being built for high efficiency and smooth running with a touch of muscle. I am expecting this to be a higher performance and much more refined version of what my first recumbent was meant to be. I still love that bike and ride it pretty much daily. It is great! But, the system is a bit complicated and requires a bit of fiddling now and then. This bike should not need the fiddling. Besides, for a very low bike, I prefer 3 wheels. :)

Matt
 
I finally got the trike up and running. :D

I charged it up and went out for a ride. It runs VERY smooth and extremely quiet! It is nearly totally silent. It is geared a bit too low right now. It maxes out roughly 22 or 23mph with my 185 pound self on-board. So, I will install a slightly larger motor pulley to gear it up to about 27 or 28mph. That should be about perfect. This trike is not about speed, but efficiency and all-around fun. I also wanted this trike to be something I can let others ride without worrying about them breaking it or crashing. This setup seems about perfect for that. I even let my 12 year old son and 15 year old daughter ride it. They experienced their first EV grin. :mrgreen:

I downloaded the data from the HV160 and found the maximum amperage I pulled was 122. Max wattage was 5200. Beyond that, the belt skips. That is fine, though, because I like a little safety margin to prevent over-amping it.

After a couple rides and recharges, I began wondering about my range. It seemed like the pack was very low capacity. Hmm, so, I hooked up my battery ballancer and found one bad cell. So, one string of 12S 5ah cells was not giving me anything. So, I was running a 5amp-hour pack, rather than the 10amp-hours I intended. So, I pulled the bad pack and am now ballancing the new pack to the other 3. That will cure my range issue.

At any rate, this 3220-7 turn motor is really low KV. It runs very slowly. That means my output power is relatively low. But, it also smooths out the power delivery and makes the trike a joy to ride and easy to ride besides. It also eases the load on the controller. This thing is actually very "Honda Accord" like. I mean, it looks good, runs smooth, is reliable, and nearly silent while being quite confortable. This is the first e-bike I have built that does not require a long lecture before I turn another person loose with it. :)

I will post completed pics soon.

Matt
 
Pics and video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdEGCNyes0o

The trike is geared for 22mph at this point. I will gear it up for about 30mph shortly. But, for now, this is good because I can let my kids ride it. :)

Anyway, the efficiency is great, the weight is low (somewhere around 55 to 60 pounds if I had to guess) and it is quiet. The video sound sucks. It seems to amplify the high pitch frequencies. It is actually almost silent.

Anyway, I am a happy camper. The current ripple is very low and everything runs nice and cool.

Matt
 

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Incredible work man, you have a great source of light and durable test pilots. :lol:

Looking at the pics, I realized this thing has all the bells and whistles, can you give me a quick and dirty rundown of the tech specs and custom made features that you added to the standard trike model. I'm really impressed, this thing had it all.

Also, do these trikes fit into the rear storage cavity of a Cessna 172? I know you sell to pilots, so maybe you could design one that folds? The reason I am asking is because the wright of this thing suprised me 60lbs for all those features, damn!
 
beautiful!

How fast can you still have a comfortable pedal input ?

Any thoughts on a motor/drive for Tommy and the 2 passenger trike ??
 
etard said:
Incredible work man, you have a great source of light and durable test pilots. :lol:

Looking at the pics, I realized this thing has all the bells and whistles, can you give me a quick and dirty rundown of the tech specs and custom made features that you added to the standard trike model. I'm really impressed, this thing had it all.

Also, do these trikes fit into the rear storage cavity of a Cessna 172? I know you sell to pilots, so maybe you could design one that folds? The reason I am asking is because the wright of this thing suprised me 60lbs for all those features, damn!

Upgrades to the stock trike;

26 inch, 36 spoke rear wheel (to handle the electric drive)
Rear frame stifteners (my design)
Front tillers (handlebars)-(also my design)
Carbon headrest plates (my design)
FSA carbon cranks


The electric system;

Astro 3220 7 turn wye
HV160 ESC
My own throttle
4 Trunigy 25C 6S packs
3 CNC battery boxes (two for the packs and one for the ESC and throttle interface)
single stage belt drive with CNC case
3 drive unit mount bases with 2 inch drive unit frame clamps used for battery box mounts


There are plenty of folding trikes out there. I am looking into converting one. I have to sell a few toys first, though. I have $20,000 worth of project bikes in my garage right now. :D

Matt
 
jmygann said:
beautiful!

How fast can you still have a comfortable pedal input ?

Any thoughts on a motor/drive for Tommy and the 2 passenger trike ??

I can pedal up to about 27mph or so pretty easily.

Tommy's tandem really needs a motorcycle motor like an E-tech. My big motor would work, but require a deep reduction to be useable in his application.

Matt
 
Any measurement of Wh/mi ... no pedaling ? with pedaling ?
 
jmygann said:
Any measurement of Wh/mi ... no pedaling ? with pedaling ?

The range seems to be identical to my recumbent without pedalling. Judging by that, it would come in at roughly 15wh per mile at 20mph. I will get numbers ASAP.

Matt
 
It looks like this trike is good for 11wh per mile at 20mph. That is better than I thought. That means this pack is good for a good 35 miles without pedalling. :mrgreen:

I put about 100 miles on it so far. I have had zero problems.

Matt
 
Matt,
You are literally a genius at small electric vehicles!! I was originally inspired by your original masterpiece, but the refinery and placement of the best components available is amazing. You are truly blessed with a gift, and I think we all are exponentially blessed that you share the goodness with the rest of us. :mrgreen:

Going back to the trike, this thing is actually useable as a vehicle for commuting, and I'm sure adding twice as much battery wouldn't alter the ride by much, seeing as how light it is. Go price a Ford Think, and a sideby side of one of these could be a sreamin good deal!

How does this trike compare to your original recumbent in terms of efficiency, power, and ride?
 
etard said:
How does this trike compare to your original recumbent in terms of efficiency, power, and ride?

That is a very good question. They were parked next to each other today and I was wondering the same thing.

Here are a few comparisons;

Actionbent Midracer--- 13wh per mile at 20mph.
CT700--- 11wh per mile at 20mph.
Midracer--- 48 pounds.
CT700--- 60 pounds? (still have to weigh it)
Midracer--- 3 stages from motor to wheel.
CT700--- Two stages to the wheel.
Midracer--- Extremely complicated drive unit.
CT700--- Very simple drive unit.

Midracer--- Top speed 40mph.
CT700--- Top speed 26mph (in current configuration. I may increase this to 30+ soon).
Midracer--- Relatively comfortable.
CT700--- VERY comfortable.
Midracer--- A bit fragile, but not too bad (too many parts in the drive unit).
CT700--- Very reliable. I would trust this thing across the state or country.
Midracer--- Cost to build--- $3,800.
CT700--- Cost to build--- $4,600 (roughly). Of course, I get stuff at cost or I make it myself. That helps. :D This thing is worth about $6,500 to $7,000 as it sits if you consider retail price of everything and the time spent.

Lastly, the Midracer took about 40 to 50 hours of R&D (after all machining was finished) to figure out and get it to this point. While the CT700 just works, no problems, no complaints.

Oh, also, the CT700 is much easier to ride. There is less to know to run it.

All in all, I will still use the Midracer. I love that thing. I have 1,100 miles on it and it is still fun. However, I am liking the stability and other benefits of the trike.

Matt
 
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