geared kona dirt jump frame

[flyinmonkie]

Hey Kim,

I'll see how my charger goes, but from what I have read I'll probably end up with a battery medic as well. In the mean time, I'll watch my voltages and the balance of the cells closely.

Well,I charged my camera battery today so here is a pic of my batteries and watt meter. I think I'll have my wheels tomorrow, which means I can set up my rear hub and start looking at my chain alignment.

Clay

Seems I forgot the pic, so here it is.

[flyinmonkie]

Wheels arrived the other day. I'll pics posted soon. I also finally got my custom jackshaft. Looks pretty good, but the end of my bearing tube that was welded to the motor plate has changed size a bit. That means the perfectly milled portion of the bearing tubs is now just a hair too small for the bearing. I'll sand it out a bit so the bearing fits and I can build up the drive unit. Wit the wheels, I can sort out the drive placement and chain alignment while I wait for the controller and Gary's LVC boards to arrive.

I have also started to sort out how I am going to wire it all up. The directions for the watt meter show it between the battery and the controller. I kind of would like it visible while riding, which means on the handle bars. It seems like a long run for the battery wires though. Any thoughts on whether it needs to be visible while riding and if there is an issue with have a long run of wire between the batteries and the controller?

I am also contemplating how to mount my batteries and controller this time. I don't think there will be any diamond plate on this bike. I have moved away from my ready source of it. lol

Clay

[AussieJester]

And you will be getting at least another 2 Zippy packs right?

KiM

[flyinmonkie]

Kim,

Yes, I am sure I will eventually... well probably sooner than later, but I will get it up and running with the 2 packs I have. I may try 22.2v just to see how it goes before I go to 44.4v. I'm sure I'll go to 44.4v pretty quick though.

Clay

[flyinmonkie]

I have checked the balance of my batteries with my charger. One pack is great, no more than 0.01 out between cells. My other pack is up to 0.20 out between cells. I have had it on the balance mode of my charger for quite some time, but I have been careful to watch the individual cell voltage and not let it go above 4.2v. Below is a picture of the cell levels of the pack that is out. Will I be able to bring this pack into balance and if so, what is the best option for doing that? Or is this a warranty claim?

I am putting my rear wheel together and may have some pics this evening of some chain alignment and the wheels on without tires. I am now just waiting on my controller and my LVC boards, which are both in the mail. After I get those and figure out the final placement of the motor and drive, I will sort the wiring and the battery and controller placement.

Clay

[flyinmonkie]

Sorry no pictures. I didn't get as much done as I thought I would. I did figure out I can't put my motor on the top of the down tube. The motor chain runs right into my front derailleur and then hits the chain stay. The motor will now go just behind and below the seat. The jackshaft will be just below the top tube and in front of the seat tube. This will keep the motor chain away form the front derailleur and give me plenty of clearance for the pedal chain.

I did set up the rear wheel with the pedal sprockets and the splinned eno. Man that eno is tight. I still have a little bit to persuade the eno on, but it is a trial fit. I may be a little zealous in my gearing from previous experience, but I'll find out when I get it up and running.

I have run another balance and discharge cycle my battery pack that was out of balance. With this discharge it is coming into balance well. It is only 0.07v outs of balance now and getting closer.

I am still waiting to hear input from you guys on how long of wires I can use for the watt meter. Also, Gary's drawings and explanation on how to sett up his LVC boards and how to connect the throttle are fantastic and very helpful. Despite that I am still a little fuzzy on charging several packs at once. After reading the Lipo care thread and seeing it posted in many places that you can charge lipos in parallel, I have not seen a detailed description of how to wire the packs to do that. Also, if you need a special charger or a meanwell to do that, or if you can use a standard lipo charger like my imax B6. Any help on this will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Clay

[GGoodrum]

I have checked the balance of my batteries with my charger. One pack is great, no more than 0.01 out between cells. My other pack is up to 0.20 out between cells. I have had it on the balance mode of my charger for quite some time, but I have been careful to watch the individual cell voltage and not let it go above 4.2v. Below is a picture of the cell levels of the pack that is out. Will I be able to bring this pack into balance and if so, what is the best option for doing that? Or is this a warranty claim?

These cells should balance out fine, but it is just going to take some time. These inexpensive balancing chargers will eventually get the cells balanced, but it might take several cycles. I think most of these time out after two hours. You don't have to worry about the cells going over 4.2V, as the charger will keep that from happening, but the balancing portion of these only passes about 150-200mA of shunt current, so it takes time.

-- Gary

[flyinmonkie]

Thanks Gary,

After a second balance and discharge cycle they have balanced out nicely. Now if I'm hooking them in series, do I have to balance the 2 packs together? What is the best way to do that? I know I have heard Matt S. say it somewhere, and I'll have a look to see if I can find it as well.

Clay

[AussieJester]

I am still waiting to hear input from you guys on how long of wires I can use for the watt meter.

Obviously the shorter the better...

l. Despite that I am still a little fuzzy on charging several packs at once. After reading the Lipo care thread and seeing it posted in many places that you can charge lipos in parallel, I have not seen a detailed description of how to wire the packs to do that.

You joking right ...if you want to charge your packs in parallel...don't you think it might make sense to connect them in parallel? I guess not...OH haha thats right my bad your a Kiwi i keep forgetting

With GGoodrum boards...i connect two packs in series (make sure packs are perfectly balanced) so i have a 22v 10ah packs, then i take the balance taps from one of the 22v packs and plug them into the GGooodrum parallel adapter board (call it board A)... I then take the second parallel adapter board(call it board B) and the balance tap from the other 22v pack and plug it in to the adapter board(Board B)...do the same with remaining packs until you have filled all the spots on the parallel adapter board. You then take the discharge leads. positive and negative...and group all positives together and all negatives together i.e you parallel them! If you wish to charge them in bulk you simply plug in a charger capable of 50v. To balance, hook your balancer to the balancing taps coming from the parallel adapter boards. Couldnt be simpler, you will know when you plug the wrong wires where though, you get melted wires with a simultaneous FLASH and lots of blackened fingers (KFF)

KiM

[flyinmonkie]

LOL Kim,

Thanks, that does help. I can wire up the batteries in parallel and plug them right in to the wall socket then, huh? Just kidding. I figured I paralleled the mains wires. I just wasn't sure how I sorted the balance wires and just wanted to be positive how I exactly hooked them to the charger. I'd rather not plug it all up and see a large glittering spark and lose all my fingers and burn down my house because I thought I had it all sorted.

I did some more research and figured out how to charge the packs in parallel. The LVC boards should make it a lot easier.

Clay

[flyinmonkie]

LVC boards arrived from Gary yesterday. I am just waiting on my controller now and some time to wire it all up and finish it off. I still haven't decided on how to attach the batteries to the bike, but I am leaning towards pvc tubes. They may end up a bit big and bulky looking. I also have to attach the controller. Will sort that out when it gets here.

Clay

[flyinmonkie]

The controller has shown up and I have tires as well. I am waiting on some bearings and another freewheel and I have to get some connectors and wire to finish this off and be ready for a ride. I have made some changes to the motor bracket and have decided the second location will not work either. With 24" wheels, I may be able to get the drive bearing tube between the seat tube and the rear wheel. If that doesn't work, I'll go back to my second idea of having the motor and drive on the down tube and deal with routing the chain around the lower chain stay. I will have to loose at least one gear for the pedals, if not all of them, but I can deal with that. I'll post pics of the controller and the bike with wheels and tire on it soon.

Clay

[GGoodrum]

Sorry, I missed this before. Anyway, here's a pic that should help show how to connect the packs:

LVC-Pack Connections-v4.1.2.png (75.2 KiB) Viewed 503 times

As Kim says, make sure the packs are balanced before plugging them into the parallel adapter portion of the LVC boards. I usually don't bother paralleling the main discharge leads. I just plug the positive of the 1st pack into the negative of the second pack, and then do the same thing with the other two packs. I then just parallel them at the pack level.

-- Gary

[AussieJester]

I usually don't bother paralleling the main discharge leads. I just plug the positive of the 1st pack into the negative of the second pack. I then just parallel them at the pack level.

Gary, just curious, is there any difference in performance or packs staying better balanced doing it this way over
the method i/we used with my pack? i.e grouping the + & - leads together after packs are connected in series.

KiM

[flyinmonkie]

Thanks Gary,

You did post that pic a page earlier. I have the batteries under control now and I think I have charging in hand. Thanks for all the input Gary and Kim. I may just keep from burning down my house, lol. Nah, I'll be just fine. It takes me a little bit to get my head around electronics, but once I do Ia m sorted. I figure better to sort it before you go plug everything in and get alight show.

As far as the bike itself goes...

I have the motor position figures out and the mount and bracket all sorted now. Paint is drying and a second coat goes on tomorrow. The reduction unit will straddle the seat post with the final drive behind the seat post and the motor in front of it in the triangle. I need to fab a couple of spacers for the jackshaft and the rear hub. May just be a few washers for the jackshaft. Then I need to cut down the jackshaft to length. I'll mount it all up and get some pics tomorrow. The chain lines are pretty good. The motor chain may just hit the lower chain stay in the highest gear, but I will deal with that if it happens. I need to add a chain tensioner to the pedal chain to get the use of the front gears. I will also need a new front derailleur and shifter if I want to use all 3 gears. The derailleur and shifter I have are a for a 2 speed. I'll start with a single speed to get me going. I don't plan on pedaling much.

With all that sorted, I can move on to mounting the batteries and the controller. As I said earlier, it is all here now so I can concentrate on that part. I am still leaning towards putting them in tubes and mounting them parallel to the top tube. I think I could then mount the controller underneath them. I'll mock it up and see how it looks tomorrow and go from there.

I'll get out my camera tomorrow and take a bunch of pics to show where I am up to and what all that stuff I just said means. It's late now, so time to get some sleep.

Clay

[GGoodrum]

I usually don't bother paralleling the main discharge leads. I just plug the positive of the 1st pack into the negative of the second pack. I then just parallel them at the pack level.

Gary, just curious, is there any difference in performance or packs staying better balanced doing it this way over
the method i/we used with my pack? i.e grouping the + & - leads together after packs are connected in series.

KiM

Sorry Kim, I missed this earlier.

Frankly, I don't think it matters what you do with the main plug wires, once the balance taps are tied together to equalize the cells that are paralleled. If you have a 4p configuration, the load current is still going to be split between the four cells in a parallel group so I think paralleling at the pack level is fine.

-- Gary

[flyinmonkie]

Well I said I'd have pictures and here they are. I didn't get as much done as I wanted as I am taking my time painting the parts. A couple of them still need another coat on one side. I do think I have my battery mounts sorted, all I have to do is make them now.

Here are the pics.

Clay

[myzter]

thats the controller I have been looking at ... where did you get ?? TNC
how much did it cost ?

I have Model LBD14 for use with my 24V 350W Currie
controller specs. show Rated Motor 350 - 750 Watts
watt analyzer shows a peak of over 700 watts..

[Carsten]

when u have a close look at the pictures its quite easy to backtrack

manufacturer: http://yiyun.cn/Product_Detail.asp?ID=109
dealers:
http://www.tncscooters.com/YK43B.php
http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/NEW-24-60-Volt-Controller-Model-YK43B-/330424800950?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0

[flyinmonkie]

myzter, yup at TNC and what ever they are asking for it is what I paid. Carsten found it. You may be able to get it cheaper on ebay, but I have to deal with that from New Zealand and it isn't worth it.

Clay

[flyinmonkie]

Lots of progress made since the last post. Final coats of paint on the motor bracket and mount. The motor is mounted and IA m still playing with the motor chain line a little. It hits the lower chain stay still. I am going to try to minimize that as much as possible and then redirect it over the chain stay. I need to rig a chain tensioner to the chain stay as well for the pedal chain. I will probably copy Y's set up on his RC bike with a home made clamp. That will let me use at least 2 of the 3 front gears. A sram DD would sort the chain line, but it isn't happening yet.

I have what I need to make the battery holders, I just need to do it now. Then see exactly where they will go and where the controller will fit. I have some andersons on order and need to get some wire. Then it is wire it all up and see how it goes. If all goes well, it should be a few weeks to a test ride.

Pics below.

[deecanio]

Very slick fm, i need to read the whole thread to catch up, but with a neat batt setup your bike will look sweet. carry on....


D

[flyinmonkie]

Worked on the battery tubes today and some other small things. Worked on the motor chain line and set up the front derailleur. I also fabbed a bracket for a chain tensioner for the pedal chain.

I'm going to mount the controller ahead of the motor on the down tube using the water bottle mount holes. I'm going to put the batteries in a couple of PVC tubes and paint the tubes black to match the bike. I'll make the battery tubes lock together and then strap them under the top tube. It is all coming together now. It won't be too long before it is alive.

Clay

[flyinmonkie]

Work slowly continues on the kona. I did a lot of small things today. Fabbed a bracket for the controller, just need some longer bolts to attach it now. Cut the jack shaft to length and made dimples for the set screws for my freewheel adapters. The motor mount and reduction are totally sorted now.

I cut my motor wires to length and put andersons on them as well as my controller.

I picked up a 34 tooth and a 32 tooth rear sprocket today. I am guessing that the 28 tooth will be geared too high for a quick start and the hills. I put the 34 tooth on, so now I have 34, 28, and 24 on the rear for the motor. I will see how that goes once I get it running. I have a 15 tooth on the motor and can drop that down to 11 if I need the torque.

I put the pedals on finally and finished my chain tensioner bracket and attached it. I need a new chain tensioner though as I cut the one I have down for my first bike and now it won't reach the chain line. I'll get a new one shortly.

I have my battery holders 90% designed and maybe 10% made. I am still deciding on small details of where to run wiring and place a fuse holder and Gary's LVC boards. It will evolve as I start to put it all together. I need to finish my battery holders and finish wiring everything to see where it all goes. I was hoping to spin the motor today, but I ran out of time.

I also have to put my chains on and sort any chain line issues left. I am sure there will be one with the motor chain, but should be easy to sort. After I get a new chain tensioner I can do the chains and tune the derailleurs. Then I can pedal it for the first time. It is always the little things at the end that take a long time.

Back soon with more news and pics of what has been done.

Clay

[flyinmonkie]

I've found a hyperion 1210i charger and ordered it. It was at Stevens AeroModel here

http://www.stevensaero.com/Hyperion-EOS ... 18946.html

Seemed a good price at $99.99us. It should be on it's way soon. I also ordered some bullet connectors and some more 10ga wire from HK as well. When it all gets here I can finish wiring up the bats and the bike. It is hard to find a lot of stuff here, especially in a small town, that is easy to find in the states. So I get to wait for stuff to be shipped a lot.

I decided to get a hyperion 1210i so I can charge my packs in 12s sets. That way I can wire pairs of 6s batts in series in each batt tube and charge them in the tubes. Charging in 12s will mean not having to change the wiring in the tubes or having extra wiring out of the tubes to be able to switch between parallel and series wiring for charging and power. It will also mean a cleaner looking finished bike with less wires outside the batt tubes.

When my bits arrive, it will be all go.

Clay