Go easy, new member with new build.

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby Tench » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:37 pm

Hi Guys, i got the idea to build an electric bike a few weeks ago and found this forum while researching for the kit to use. I decided on a Cyclone 900w kit with a cycle analyst and Ping 36v 20a lifepo4 battery. All the parts where ordered and the build began, it was decided that i didnt want to use the supplied mounting hardware for the motor so a new bracket was designed and made, having a lathe and ac/dc tig is a big advantage with projects like this. The bike was my Giant Terrago that i have owned for a few years but i didnt want to alter it in any way so the whole instalation has been done without any alterations to the bike, the whole lot could be removed without leaving a trace! The motor is mounted between 2 plates that bolt into bosses inside a box section, these bosses can slide by tightening a screw to adjust the tension of the motor chain.
This threw up the first problem, the chainwheels ran very eccentric making constant chain tension impossible, a new hub was made to mount all the chainwheels on the freewheel (i have asked for a quote on making a batch of these as watching You Tube vids with Cyclone motors shows that other people are running these with wildy out of true sprockets) the new hub does away with dozens of nuts washers and spacers!! I have run the throttle off the CA so it can limit the consumption, it is set for a max 30A (1.5c) and 30 MPH which it does with ease. I dont think i have done a bad job for a first attempt, it took 1 week in total to build it and all of the materials came out the scrap bin, the plastic motor covers and lips around the rack are made from plastic guttering with the shunt and wiring hidden in the trunking behind the controller. The motor mounting is extremely stong being made from 2" alloy box and there is no motor movement under load. The battery balances perfectly on each charge with the std Ping charger, i had the low current one so it can be charged over night. I am quite pleased with this build and impressed with its performance and range but my father in law is having this one as i have a Stealth Bomber on order which should be here soon!

Here are some pics, what do you think?

nearly finished.
Image

the original chain wheel fixings :shock:
Image

the parts i didnt need with the new chainwheel hub
Image

The new hub
Image

Motor mounting
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Project one viewtopic.php?f=28&t=20304&hilit=tench
Project Two viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37489
The uk's first Stealth Bomber

There is a box inside your head, inside amongst others are the words "Wont fit" stop looking for answers in the box, there are no answers only excuses.
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Re: Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby Miles » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:50 pm

Welcome Tench.

Nice work!

The Cyclone kit is a bit of joke.... Someone should buy the motors/controllers direct from Headline and create a decent kit........
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Re: Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby spinningmagnets » Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:02 pm

Excellent work, Tench! Have you heard of the "thudbuster" seat? You might like it, since you have a hardtail. There is some work going on with hub-motors being configured as a non-hub motor (narrower, and larger diameter). Also much work with RC motors...
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Re: Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby recumpence » Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:05 pm

Wow, that is the cleanest Cyclone build I have ever seen.

Top notch, Man. Top notch! :)

Welcome. You will like it here, lots of nice guys on this forum.

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Re: Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby GGoodrum » Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:39 pm

Yes, I agree with both Miles and Matt, this is a very nice build. Miles is right, the mounts that come with the Cyclone kits are complete crap. The quality of the rest of the kit, including the motor, controller, throttle, etc., is decent enough, and controller is easily upgradeable, if you decide you need more power.

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Re: Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby kfong » Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:22 pm

Great job Tench, I like how you did it without any CNC work. I was going to do something similar but ended up keeping the motor under the BB since it seemed to get less attention. I like the cylcones, didn't at first because of the offset cranks but it never was an issue once I started riding it in the trails. I was regularly jumping mine in the trails until I broke the frame, then moved the cyclone to a bike similar to yours. Now I ride my BMC build but I still use the cyclone for groceries and errands. I wish I could weld, that would be a nice addition to my bike building efforts.
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Re: Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby mwkeefer » Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:42 pm

Tench,

Very clean and superb work... I see how you managed without CNC and more than managed, but did a damn fine job.

The mig/tig is your advantage, in that single square box you have more strength (very fine welds btw) than you need and with the plates attachment... well just a very sweet and inspiring build.

The one thing I can't factor, where on this build did ya need the lathe? It seems the mig/tig and a bandsaw + some blank stock and tube stock from McMaster would do the trick for fabbing the mount?

Again, very impressive!
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Re: Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby Tench » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:44 am

Thanks for the kind words fella's,
I had to make spacers on the lathe to get the mounting plate positions correct to perfectly sandwich the box section and get the right motor offset for the chain run, also the bosses that the side plates bolt into where made on the lathe, and the lathe was also used for the chain wheel hub.
This is the mounting box, you can see the bosses in it and the slots for adjusting the chain tension, the motor sandwiched between the plates is a perfect fit over it, when the 4 mounting bolts 2 from each side are tight the whole assembly is solid.

Image
Image

It appears that my pics are too big for the whole image to be displayed?
The motor, or probably its gearbox is noisier than i had expected, i did examine the gears to ensure there was sufficient lube in there, maybe it will quieten down when it is all bedded in? or is silence too much to expect?

Doing this has given me some ideas on how to do it better so another one may be coming along soon! are there any other good motors i could build a similar conversion with that run quieter, it must work through the gear set again?
Project one viewtopic.php?f=28&t=20304&hilit=tench
Project Two viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37489
The uk's first Stealth Bomber

There is a box inside your head, inside amongst others are the words "Wont fit" stop looking for answers in the box, there are no answers only excuses.
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Re: Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby dontsendbubbamail » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:03 am

Tench wrote:Thanks for the kind words fella's,

It appears that my pics are too big for the whole image to be displayed?


Reduce the pictures down to 800 by 600 and you will see the complete picture when viewing the thread. InfraView is free and is what I use. Folks can still see the complete picture if you continue to use higher resolutions, but they have to download it to their computer first and open it with something like InfraView or Paint.

The other alternative to run your screen at higher resolution, but my poor old eyes cannot handle the small text.

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Re: Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby geekybiker » Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:36 pm

Wow. Wish my cyclone setup looked that nice!
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Re: Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby Miles » Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:40 pm

Tench wrote:are there any other good motors i could build a similar conversion with that run quieter, it must work through the gear set again?
One possibility is to use a small geared hub motor to drive the crankset.
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Re: Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby jmygann » Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:04 pm

Miles wrote:
Tench wrote:are there any other good motors i could build a similar conversion with that run quieter, it must work through the gear set again?
One possibility is to use a small geared hub motor to drive the crankset.


There is this motor ... http://www.thesuperkids.com/10wabmc36vor.html

what is used in the Eco Speed ?? Are they Powerpack motors ?
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Re: Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby competitions » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:47 pm

Well done, great build!

Also well done on ordering a stealth bomber.

I phoned their Aussie number a couple of days ago, no answer and left a message, which wasn't returned.

I guess they must have enough sales to bother!
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Re: Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby Tench » Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:27 am

competitions wrote:Well done, great build!

Also well done on ordering a stealth bomber.

I phoned their Aussie number a couple of days ago, no answer and left a message, which wasn't returned.

I guess they must have enough sales to bother!


I had contact with John from Stealth bikes over the weekend, he was in Europe so email him as he wont be near the phone!
Project one viewtopic.php?f=28&t=20304&hilit=tench
Project Two viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37489
The uk's first Stealth Bomber

There is a box inside your head, inside amongst others are the words "Wont fit" stop looking for answers in the box, there are no answers only excuses.
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Re: Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby Timma2500 » Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:13 pm

That is the neatest cyclone install i've seen so far, well done Tench!

How long till you get your Bomber?




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Re: Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby SoSauty » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:15 pm

Very tidy build Tench, the pictures availed are a nice representation :!: You say go easy on new builder yet you are beyond me, questions:

1) what is the brown bronze item in the center of your chain rings and about your crank set; is that an "eno" :?: If so, how does an 'eno' work?

2) If your motor is driving the rear wheel at say 20mph, can you both hold your feet at rest and assist pedal :?:

3) do the gears (back wheel cassett) seem to be strong enough for motor drive long term :?:

I've read/studied 500 forum pages this week and have only started to learn about non-hub drives.
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Re: Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby Tench » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:41 pm

The Bomber should be finished around the middle of September, hopefully it willbe with me soon after that.
Project one viewtopic.php?f=28&t=20304&hilit=tench
Project Two viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37489
The uk's first Stealth Bomber

There is a box inside your head, inside amongst others are the words "Wont fit" stop looking for answers in the box, there are no answers only excuses.
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Re: Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby Tench » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:47 pm

SoSauty wrote:Very tidy build Tench, the pictures availed are a nice representation :!: You say go easy on new builder yet you are beyond me, questions:

1) what is the brown bronze item in the center of your chain rings and about your crank set; is that an "eno" :?: If so, how does an 'eno' work?

2) If your motor is driving the rear wheel at say 20mph, can you both hold your feet at rest and assist pedal :?:

3) do the gears (back wheel cassett) seem to be strong enough for motor drive long term :?:

I've read/studied 500 forum pages this week and have only started to learn about non-hub drives.
thanks,
SoSauty


The Bronze coloured part is a freewheel unit, this allows the motor to turn the front chain wheels without the pedals going round, pedalling can be done at any time to assist the motor, when pedalling without any motor assistance the freewheel unit on the motor spindle alows the chain to go round without the motor turning so it pedals or coasts as freely as a normal cylce. The motor on this does not feed anymore power to the rear cassette than you can do with your legs so i dont see why it might suffer.

Whats an "ENO" ? :?
Project one viewtopic.php?f=28&t=20304&hilit=tench
Project Two viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37489
The uk's first Stealth Bomber

There is a box inside your head, inside amongst others are the words "Wont fit" stop looking for answers in the box, there are no answers only excuses.
Tench
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Re: Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby BlackArrow » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:09 pm

Hi Tench,

A "ENO" is a freewheel and it can handle allot more torque, the one that came with the cyclone kit has a bad reputation.

Good day!
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Re: Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby Tench » Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:05 pm

The bomber was on target for a mid septmeber completion last time i heard from John, not long now!! :D

The Cyclone is settling in nicely, it did in excess of 30 miles range on the longest stretch between charges with a used power of 18.5ah. The reduction gear in the motor gearbox is quietening down as it clocks up the miles. We also made some changes to the freewheel mounting on the motor spindle as it ran very slightly out of true, three equally spaced securing screws has allowed us to ensure it is central, this along with the new chain wheel hub has resulted in a very quiet primary drive. My father in law who is running this bike is complaining of a less than perfect take up on the throttle, we have tried to dial in as smooth a pick from a closed throttle as we can with the CA but he still wants it smoother so a cush drive is going to be built into the mounting of the motor driven large chainwheel to soften this. but i think that will have to wait untill the bad weather force's him to hang up his bicycle clips for the winter, he is 70!!
Project one viewtopic.php?f=28&t=20304&hilit=tench
Project Two viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37489
The uk's first Stealth Bomber

There is a box inside your head, inside amongst others are the words "Wont fit" stop looking for answers in the box, there are no answers only excuses.
Tench
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Re: Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby boostjuice » Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:39 am

Tench wrote:
My father in law who is running this bike is complaining of a less than perfect take up on the throttle, we have tried to dial in as smooth a pick from a closed throttle as we can with the CA but he still wants it smoother so a cush drive is going to be built into the mounting of the motor driven large chainwheel to soften this.


http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12775
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Re: Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby Dingo2024 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 4:55 am

Hi Tench,

nice build, good to see another UK build on ES.very clean and functional. Interesting to hear the comments regarding the chainwheels running out of true due to the washer / spacers / bolts provided with the kit. I like your solution with the machined spacers...can you give me idea of the cost as I am interested in a set to fit to my build...also interested in how you run the controller / throttle through the CA..would you like to share?


thanks

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Re: Go easy, new member with new build.

Postby Tench » Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:11 pm

boostjuice wrote:
Tench wrote:
My father in law who is running this bike is complaining of a less than perfect take up on the throttle, we have tried to dial in as smooth a pick from a closed throttle as we can with the CA but he still wants it smoother so a cush drive is going to be built into the mounting of the motor driven large chainwheel to soften this.


http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12775


Thanks for that, i have read that thread but i am not sure how the CA will be affected, i did some playing with pots when trying to create a 200w cruise control curcuit and found that when the imput from the throttle to the CA is too low it generates it own signal and the bike takes off!
I can do what they are doing by altering the "0" and full throttle voltage settings in the CA, by juggling these settings i have got the throttle to work over the full sweep, (not the kit throttle, a full grip replacement but still Hall) it still comes in a little briskly but is probably more to do with the controller, with the CA intercepting my throttle output to control other parrameters i may need a different solution or try these mods on the CA's output wire but i wouldnt know how as it is just a single wire?

Cheers Simon.
Project one viewtopic.php?f=28&t=20304&hilit=tench
Project Two viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37489
The uk's first Stealth Bomber

There is a box inside your head, inside amongst others are the words "Wont fit" stop looking for answers in the box, there are no answers only excuses.
Tench
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