Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

[Metallover]

Well, I've had my ebike for six months and I've ridden over 650 miles saving $112 in gas. I've come to know the strengths and weaknesses of my setup.

I raced a moped today. Completely raped it. I'm very happy with the performance of my bike


However, the rear hubmotor setups sucks big time. The rear is so dang heavy and the suspension sucks. Gravel roads are a nightmare and the rear wheel bounces when I take corners fast. My spokes aren't loving me either.

I have enough extra money lying around - I want to start a new build with a new bike. I'll re-use the batteries, probably the speed controller, and a few other parts. I want to get an outrunner and set that up.
The problem is that I don't know the best/easiest/most reliable way. I've been creepin in the non-hub forum for a few weeks, and I'll continue to do so.

Please if you have any threads/builds you want me to see let me know.

And how much does a Recumpence or Mud drive cost?

[AussieJester]

However, the rear hubmotor setups sucks big time. The rear is so dang heavy and the suspension sucks. Gravel roads are a nightmare and the rear wheel bounces when I take corners fast. My spokes aren't loving me either.

^^^ Mooosic to my ears that is ::wipes happy tear from corner of eye:: ...come to the dark side my pretty..

Please if you have any threads/builds you want me to see let me know.

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=12687&hilit=timmas+norco



^^if you want to see the best of the best in DIY e-MTB IMO^^

And how much does a Recumpence or Mud drive cost?

Around $US200 bucks possibly a lil more now? Can also buy clamps for the drive so you can mount it too your frame...
I don't think Muds drive is for-sale yet ? Recumpence gear is top notch cnc bling you wont
be disappointed.

Best of luck

KiM

[Metallover]

Thanks for the info KiM!

Seems like my options are to go with a single/double stage reduction and
-A planetary gearbox to the freewheeling cranks
-A left side drive that works with the rear suspension

Each one presents it's own challenges. I don't have a welder either...

I'll do some massive search and destroy in the non hub section and with google to find out which one I should use. Opinions also welcome.

How does the metric shaft of the turnigy outrunners work with everything? Do most people machine the shaft or find the right sprocket?

[bzhwindtalker]

or you could re-use your hub as a mid drive, and have the best or both worlds
high torque or high speed, and great handling with the motor in front of your cranks. you would just need to weld/ bolt an old fork to your frame, and replace your cranks with free-wheeling ones and go!

[johnrobholmes]

I think a smaller geared hub would be better suited as a mid drive, but it is certainly a viable option.

[dbaker]

JRH,

What smaller geared hub will give him the performance he has squeezed so far from the 9C?

[johnrobholmes]

The puma will actually have better performance on the same voltage and amperage, but unfortunately the gears make them a bit more fragile. If they were used as a mid drive with one metal gear the fragility could actually be gotten around I bet.

[Metallover]

I made a video. It is my best one yet.

[etard]

Damn Metal!! Your frickin flyin around that nieghborhood! How are you doing on the wheelies? So what is the main complaint about the hub? Just too unbalanced for jumps?

You can pickup a decent full suspension bike used for about $700, the recumpence drive for what $250(?), an HXT motor for $100, and then the rest depends on what drive style you like. It doesn't look like you want to pedal much, so maybe left side disc brake mounted could get you in for about another $100-200. Realistically, I think you are looking at $1200 minimum.

Some drive options to look for:

deecanio: complicated but very effective for his purposes
bubba: simple, large, cheap, homemade, elegant
liveforphysics: powerful, outrageous, kind of a proof of concept
ggoodrum: direct drive simplicity
drewjet: epitomy of recumpence drive

those are just off the top of my head, def leaving out a few good ones.
Happy googling!

[beast775]

crazy youngins! i could hear your spokes pinging a couple times.it looks really hot there .fun video.thanks.

[Metallover]

Hehe.. I usually ride nicely, but I wanted to push the envelope today. Thanks for the comments!

The hub offers great performance, but the second you go off of the paved road, the ride turns to crap. Even on-road you can feel all of the medium-large bumps with all of the unsprung weight. I drive on a lot of gravel roads so the suspension needs to be a lot better. I also jump my bike at a friend's quad track, which is a blast.. The weight is fine now, but I'm worried about it when I lose the hub because the batteries add a lot of weight in the front.

And the spokes,,, they've been a little creaky squeaky for awhile. I'm not motivated enough to tighten em because I suck at it; although I can do it if I have a few hours to get it right.

Using my existing batteries and controller, I am going to run an outrunner through the crank. I already have all of the parts for a freewheeling crank. I've got a thread in the non-hub section.

[Ypedal]

Helmet
Helmet
Helmet
Helmet
Helmet

[Metallover]

I need to start wearing my helmet more.. I had it on at the start of the video and I wore it when we were driving to new locations, but I took it off when we were on non-busy residential streets/offroad. Honestly when I am in town I usually don't wear it. My city has about 8000 and the roads I am on don't have all that much traffic... But it only takes one crash...

On a different note, I just saw that I should solder up my traces on my controller when maxing out the amp limit because the solder isn't good enough without copper. I will beef up the traces next time I take out the controller.

I haven't posted this yet but awhile ago I was programming the bike and I saw I only had 40a. I upped it to 57a and I got peaks of about 70a and 4700w. I wonder if not upgrading the traces caused some problems with the shunt/current limit? Or maybe it's never too accurate? Or maybe I'm producing 850w of heat?

[johnrobholmes]

Helmet!


How hot is the controller getting now?

[Metallover]

I don't really keep track of the controller temp too often because the motor is by far the first thing that would overheat... I'll feel the controller on the FET side and it'll be warm to the touch, rarely hot to the touch. With my new build I'll put a temperature sensor/alarm in there like I have on my motor now.

[Hyena]

Cool video, looks quite fast. You still running 18S lipo ?
Have you measured your top speed with GPS or some other accurate method ?

[fizzit]

Hey metallover, your bike is really, really cool. I'm going to be turning 16 soon which means I can legally have an electric bike (not that I would keep it to legal power levels though ) and I was actually looking at doing a bike with 9c rear, 12fet lyen, 6 * 6s 5ah lipo, and a Blackcomb or similar bike. And I just found your build log . Its funny that we also both have had scooters upgraded with brushless turnigy motors and lipo. I hope someday I will have an ebike as cool as yours, maybe I'll just have to start off with an RC drive now

[Metallover]

Hyena, sorry for not responding,, I don't remember getting an email.. I am still running 18s lipo. All of my top speeds were measured with a garmin 201 GPS. On a full charge I can get over 40 with the timing boost, which kicks in at about 35mph. I found that my range goes out the window with the timing boost, I have to be careful not going over 35mph on long trips.

Fizzit, good luck with your build! I'll keep an eye out for it.

The latest setback has been my charger. My Hyperion EOS0610i bit the dust a week ago. I contacted a few people and found that I can get a 40% discount on a new EOS0615i, which is 360w compared to 250w.

In the mean time I spent $26 on two PC power supplies and wired em up in series to make a 1150w 24v power supply to power my new charger. A similar charger runs $225. My charger runs on either 12v or 24v, but I figured it would be more efficient at 24v.

The final unit is 13x7" and the output measures 25.2v. If I put the leads of my multimeter on each power supply, I get 12v between the two. I haven't touched it yet, and I don't know if it will shock me if I touch it. There's a guide on hooking up two power supplies in series here.

I cut some pegboard to mount the power supplies on.


Testing - The power supply on the right is wrapped in clear packaging tape.


I mounted the power supplies to the pegboard with some bolts, M3 I believe. I then used some unshrunk heat shrink (1" wide) and duct tape to try to insulate the screws.


And my awesome duct tape job.


25.2v output under no load.

[deecanio]

hey metallover,

your ride is working sweet, very impressive , but just to add +1, get some protection on , especially when your bike is that capable
i'll post up in your other thread, see if i can save you from any errors i've already made don't dismiss your hub yet, it's always nice to have it ready to ride inbetween "build revisions".

D

[Ypedal]

If you push these supplies to their rated amperage you might want to consider removing the duct tape !!.. ( cooling ) .

[veloman]

I just came across your youtube video, didn't realize it was yours until after I asked what your voltage and battery were.

I'm not surprised now, running 18s lipo. That's a fast bike. I will likely be doing a similar setup on my dualie.

So you aren't giving up ebikes for cars? That's cool dude, I remember high school and how cars were everything (only 7 years ago).

[johnrobholmes]

I didn't give up bikes for cars in high school either. I just rode in different locations because I had a car to take me further

High school only 7 years ago? Humph, I am getting old.

[Hyena]

+1 on duct tape heat thing.

Leaving highschool was 15 years ago for me now but I wish I had an ebike back then! Actually I've since gone full circle - I've got a fast, powerful car in the garage but I prefer to ride my ebike at any opportunity.

[Metallover]

The duct tape.. I'll keep a close eye on temps. I don't foresee any problems with heat, but it's very possible. These power supplies were made to be shoved into tight cramped servers and run for hours on end. Also I can't see myself going over half the wattage this supply can produce,, with a 360w charger I might get 500w total to my 1150w ps.

Here in SD the driving age is 14. I started driving when I was a tick under 15, and I built the bike over a year later. I built it for hobby and recreation, not for transportation, or, saving money. I love riding the bike and vehicles aren't too important to me.

I think the best thing about my e-bike is that I'll have it in college. That will be so convenient!!