EVAssemble 36v 600w 12-FET Controller

[amberwolf]

This unit comes to me from Yoppapamon, via this thread:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 62&start=0
which will eventually disappear (from the Items For Sale - New forum). AFAIK it's unused, new.

DSC03365.JPG (63.88 KiB) Viewed 3730 times

It'll be tested on the DayGlo Avenger
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15570
with a 9C 2807 front hub, powered by a 36V 9Ah NiMH at first, then if I figure out it's safe to use with the 48V 13Ah pack I'll try it with that, too (or modify it if necessary/possible). If I get the Thundersky 10s 60Ah pack built and testable with DGA, I'll try it with that to see what kind of power it will pull (since that can handle 60-120A, about 10x as much current as my NiMH packs).

Since I will have to change connectors on it or make adapters to my existing wiring, which will take some time, first I decided to do some picture reviews and note a few things about it's contruction/etc.

It has no external case English labelling at all, with the exception of a few of the numbers on it for voltages for throttle range and input voltage, and overall wattage.

DSC03369.JPG (48.15 KiB) Viewed 3730 times

The rest is in (presumably) Chinese. -1 point

No labelling of controller connectors on the case itself (unlike Lyen's), even in Chinese. -1 point

Connectors appear to by typical types used on many (most?) generic controllers.

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I haven't looked up the diagram on the EVAssemble site (assuming they have one), but the one purple wire with a male uninsulated bullet seems odd; it has no mate.

It appears to be fairly well sealed against moisture, though I havent' tested it by dunking. +1 point

Inside, they've used Kapton tape between the FETs and their mounting bar,

DSC03370.JPG (51.86 KiB) Viewed 3730 times

which is a lot better than that grey sheet usually used on these things. +1 point

The caps are all 105°C rated,

DSC03395.JPG (49.04 KiB) Viewed 3730 times

unlike some that have just 85°C caps. +1 point
63V, good enough for it's rated battery voltage.

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It's conformal-coated, which is an additional moisture barrier. +1 point

Assembly in general appears to be clean and neat,

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but the caps are not mounted down in any way

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and so will vibrate, potentially cracking the leads or their solder joints eventually. Some look like they originally were slightly touching the conformal coat, but that is pretty hard and flaky stuff so they have already come away from it, before even opening it up. They're also not neatly arranged on there, or sensibly regarding what they are touching; in the upper right corner one of them is even touching the FET's face (and thus will get significantly hotter than if it were not, probably).

DSC03387.JPG (45.88 KiB) Viewed 3741 times

There was plenty of room to have put them all upright mounted flush with the board,

DSC03374.JPG (37.7 KiB) Viewed 3730 times

but they didn't do that for reasons I can't figure out. -1 point

It's using IR FETs, assuming they're genuine (can't tell), the IRFB3607:

DSC03394.JPG (59.2 KiB) Viewed 3730 times

https://ec.irf.com/v6/en/US/adirect/ir? ... RFB3607PBF
http://www.irf.com/product-info/datashe ... 607pbf.pdf
75V, 80A, 9.0 mOhm, 56 nC Qg, TO-220AB
ID @ TC = 25C = 80A
ID @ TC = 100C = 56A
Rth(JC) (K/W) = 1.05
Power Dissipation @ TC = 25C = 140W
Not a bad FET for this application. +1 point

The heatsinking surface of the inside of the case does not mate with the FET mounting bar--there is a HUGE airgap not even filled with paste (there is paste on the bar but the gap is so big that it isn't even touching the inside of the case!).

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The screws are as tight as they can get,

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so the case is already pulled tight against it, meaning that either the bar or the case is not flat. -2 points.

I can't quite read the MCU p/n thru the conformal coat;

DSC03398.JPG (91.52 KiB) Viewed 3730 times

best I can get is XSM08-A 085 (or X8M06-A 085, perhaps, based on the PCB silkscreening of X8M06ab_P05.4).

DSC03390.JPG (39.45 KiB) Viewed 3730 times

Based on the pads just to the right of the MCU, it does appear to be programmable, but I don't know the pinout or interface of the header, nor if there is any software available to us to do it with.

It has an LED (the white component next to those pads) presumably for troubleshooting. Don't know what it does yet as I haven't powered it up.

More to come later.

[docnjoj]

Now THAT is the way to start a review of a controller! Nice work AW!
otherDoc

[yopappamon]

Where is the connection diagram that Michael sent to use with that controller.

PS Blushless controller1.jpg (112.39 KiB) Viewed 3257 times

[amberwolf]

Thanks! That'll help, although I will still have to figure out which actual wire does what on each connector. It should be easier this way, though.

[amberwolf]

More pics of the controller, this time of the attempt at water-proofing the backs of the connectors. Only two of the connectors are possibly sealed with hotglue well enough to help; the rest look like this:

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Now in process of figuring out the wiring. Below is an edited version of the chart with what this controller actually has (I think), and I've removed the cables from the diagram that arent' on this one:

36V 600W EVAssemble controller diagram.PNG (104.91 KiB) Viewed 3195 times

I don't know what the two "unknown" connectors are, as they don't match the configuration of any of the connectors in the diagram. I suspect that the black-gray-pink is the 3-speed selector *or* the "gauge wire", and the orange-blue-green is the throttle.

I'll have to reopen the controller and see if the pads are all labelled for those wires.

[amberwolf]

Ok, finally got the chance to hook it up. I did forget to open it up to check what pads were what wires, and was in a little bit of a hurry while my sister was out (for what turned out only a few minutes) so I just hooked it up with power (hooked my Mulitpole up in place of the original connector) and hallls and phases, which were wired the same as my existing ones on DGA. Since the wires on the connector that matched my throttle were similar enough in color pattern, I risked it and turned out correct, even though I thought before that it would not be that connector.

For power, I used the Multipole because taht's what is on my 36V battery on The Velcro Eclipse, which is what I borrowed to test this on DGA with.

So the updated wiring is below:

36V 600W EVAssemble controller diagram v2.PNG (108.76 KiB) Viewed 3168 times

The one I thought was throttle at first is not; it's got +battery voltage on the orange wire, 0V on the blue, and 5V on the green. 5V may be a signal wire with a pullup because hooking it momentarily to 0V brings it down to about 2.5V. I don't really know, though, till I open it and trace to pads. ANyway, it disables the controller when shorted, if the wheel was not already in motion. If it is in motion already, then it does nothing.

The purple lonely bullet wire that's labelled as brake does not engage at either 0V or 5V (using wires from the throttle line).

The red/black alarm power wire has battery voltage across it.

The yellow loop wire (supposed to be white in the diagram) doesn't do anything whether it's engaged or not, AFAICT. No-load off-ground wheel speed is 29.7MPH both ways.

Interestingly, the 9C 15-16MPH noise doesn't seem to be nearly as loud in the off-ground brake-load situation as it is with the Lyen controller, but it could just be that I wasnt' squeezing the brake as hard this time; it'll have to wait till an actual ride to verify this.

So since I can't figure out how to make the ebrake work yet, I can't test any regen (if it has it). It's possible that the yellow loop wire enables or disables regen rather than limiting speed, but without braking ability I can't verify that.


I'm going to strap everything down and go test it on the road shortly, using the WU1 to measure power/etc.

[amberwolf]

Strapped down with velcro just for this quick jaunt around the block:

DSC03479.JPG (40.43 KiB) Viewed 3160 times

The WattsUp provided the battery extension cable to let me still stick the 36V 9Ah NiMH pack in the pod.

Power statistics:
46.7Vstart
34.25Vrest
27.65Vm
24.5Wh
0.757Ah
30.25Ap
906.6Wp

21.2MPH Max
13.441MPH avg
4 minutes 38 seconds trip time
1.048 miles.

Took about 12 seconds to reach 20MPH with no pedalling, and another 18 seconds to reach the max I could get of 21.2MPH. Given that this is at something like 3C for the poor abused 9Ah NiMH pack, at a hefty voltage drop of nearly 10V from nominal (almost 1/3 of pack voltage!), I'd say that's not too bad.

It'd probably work a lot better with say, that Thundersky 32V 60Ah pack I'm looking for terminal bolts for. I expect max speed would be the same, but reaching it should be really snappy.

After about 3 minutes of riding mostly WOT, it started to cut out, probably due to whatever LVC it has, as it got really stuttery during accelerations as I got close to home, a minute or so later. I could not use more than 1/2 throttle for the last 1/8 mile without cutting out completely.

The pack itself was very warm when I stopped at home. I don't think I ever asked 30A of it before.

The controller I had been reaching under the bars to check periodically, and it was warm to the touch (in our 80F weather of the moment) but not really hot. I fully expect it's a lot hotter inside, especially since I haven't fixed that heatsink bar's mating surface to the case yet.


Now I suppose I should actually open it up and verify the connection labels on the PCB, vs what wire is there. Maybe I can fill in the rest of the wiring chart.

[amberwolf]

Have not done further extensive testing of this due to me doing something to screw up my 9C.
viewtopic.php?p=322066#p322066

However, in the process of troubleshooting the problems with a wheel on the test stand (upside down bike frame), I did discover something I didn't notice before--this controller apparently has demand-speed throttle control.

That means that if you are at a high speed and then lower the throttle input, it will slow the motor down to that speed--not just let it coast down, but actively brake it down to the speed you've now set.

If you just let the throttle go, down to zero, it does coast. But if you have any amount of throttle input, it attempts to keep the wheel at that speed.

Interesting, and useful, as it means I would not have to use a brake lever to control braking, but can use the throttle to do it, and that gives me a lot greater control over how I am braking.

A caveat is that since I did not notice the effect while riding, it may be insignificant in the amount of regen voltage/current it generates, thus not actually providing much in the way of braking power. If I get the motor fixed, I'll test that out on the road.

[grindz145]

Great review, Amberwolf, I think you've earned the controller:D

[amberwolf]

Not even done with the review yet, as I need to sort out the mystery wires amongst other things.

I still want to test it hauling heavy cargo, see if it is really only 600W or if it'll take more than that.

Then I want to test it out on higher voltages. since the components should be able to take it.

All that is assuming I didn't blow it up already.

[amberwolf]

Well, I didn't actually blow this up yet like I thought.
Instead I screwed up redoign the wiring on the 9C: basically I swapped the blue and green halls somehow, inside the motor.
viewtopic.php?p=325680#p325680

I dont' know why I could not get the 9C or the 9C/GM1000W combo motors to work on this unit, but I suspect either I had something disconnected or just plain hooked up wrong while trying to figure out phases/halls via the spreadsheet, keeping etiher motor from working right.

So this controller sis owrking normally. I need to verify if it's inernal parts can actually handle 48V (~60V hot, I think), and try that.

Now I need to go see if I can find anything else I have around here that has that same 6-pin JST(?) male connector on it that I now have on the Methods 18FET (just fixed tonite) or the generic 12FET (also just fixed tonite), so I can swap motors and controllers around at will for experiments or just getting around town.

[amberwolf]

Nothing quite new yet on this; still trying to find another item around here with that a matching connector for the halls so I can just swap motors/etc at will. Havne't had much of a looksee since the last post, though, with other things going on and so much regular dayjob work hours.

I think this controller is going to go on the Velcro Eclipse bike, or whatever I end up calling the Nishiki when it's finally put together. I really need to test it at 48V to see if it will work or just blow up, as I'd rather run at 48V just to make it easier to swap battery packs in for this (my two best packs are 48V).

[auraslip]

Hey amber wolf - glad the pics were saved in this thread.

Anyways, I just got one of these x8m06 based controllers from aliexpress. A 72v 1500w 15 fet version though.

It looks visually very similar. Problem is I don't have a 72v pack....so....

I googled the hell out of "x8m06" and can find no info on it..... I'd really like to be able to flash these boards because they are getting pretty popular and cheap!

This is what's written on the ic "x8m06-d 059 a0d6"

[amberwolf]

Interesting; I have 72V worth of various batteries to put on something like that, but I'm not sure mine will take it, and I don't want to destroy it by just plugging it in to test that theory. I expect it's just LVC/HVC programmed in, mostly, but probably the input power resistore voltage divider is set for the range it's marked for.

Can you take some pics of yours, and also note the values of the input power resistors and whatnot? I'd like to compare them to mine, so we might work out something like the XieChang stuff can have, with switchable input resistors for high and low voltage ranges. Might not do a thing for any LVC or HVC it might have programmed in, but if it only bases it off what these power resistors give for voltage divider, then it would allow us to turn any of the specific-voltage units into any other voltage (given the limits of FETs and caps and whatnot) by just changing those resistors proportionally.

Also I'd like to see how well or poorly they did the physical layout and FET heatsinking, etc., compared to this one.


It's got pads on the board to talk to something with, but we'd need the software meant to do that, or at least the protocols and the safe flash locations (and what they are for) in order to write or have written for us something that coudl change those settings. I'm not sure where to start asking for such things, as the controller manufacturrers would probably laugh at us if we could even get them to read our emails, much less try to understand what we wanted.

The same is true of every other MCU-based controller I have seen inside of so far; even the older non-programmable XieChang controllers *could* be programmed if we only knew how to talk to it and what to say.


I've been tempted to ask some of the various companies found via google that show they make controllers (like Ningbo Jinggu http://jingguelectric.en.ec21.com/ ) to see if they can supply the programming software, but I haven't bothered, as I know that I say too much and ask too many things in too technical a way to get thru to any of them.

[amberwolf]

I never got around to any of the above "to-do" list, but I did finally use the controller again, to try testing out this big powerchair motor here:
viewtopic.php?p=504797#p504797
So far the experiment is still not complete, as I am having some trouble setting up the hall sensors in the motor (it doesn't come with compatible ones, as it's original application uses SIN/COS for position sensing).

[granolaboy]

Great review! Nice work!

[amberwolf]

Thanks.

This controller has now officially run the powerchair motor successfully, after several hours of messing around with installing the halls and stuff:
viewtopic.php?p=504935#p504935

[amberwolf]

So I can't stay asleep for some reason, evne though I'm super-tired, so I decided to finally sit down and write down where all teh wires connect inside, like I meant to a zillion times before.


Marked up one of the previous color wire charts with them:

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One of he wierd ones is the three pin square "Unknown Function": it has the W phase (green) as one of the wires! Another is Battery positive. The other is called A3, and what it does is start out at 5V, then as you increase throttle the voltage on A3 goes up till just below full throttle it is at about 11V, then at full throttle it drops to 5V again. I can't figure out what device might need all three of these things, to have them on a single plug.

The purple no-function wire goes to a pad called SH. Dunno what it is for, but it isn't a brake wire. EDIT: According to this post:
viewtopic.php?p=433282#p433282
it should activate the brake if 12V is applied to it...dunno if this controller has 12V anywhere inside I can tap off of, but I have some 7812 TO3s and TO220s I can use if I have to make my own source off of VCC.



The yellow loop is from DS to X pads; dunno what they might be yet.


Interesting to note: The halls and phases aren't wired in teh same color order on the PCB, which seems wierd. They are labelled U V and W on both phases adn halls; you'd think they'd use the same color order on both. But they dont':
Phase:
U=Yellow
V=Blue
W=Green

Halls:
U=Green
V=Yellow
W=Blue.

So none of them match. I guess this is a part of why it is just about never possible to just match up color orders: even stuff inside the single device isn't wired to match up, so thre's no expectation that any other device would be wired to match up internally either (controller or motor). If everyone used the same color for the same phase, and ditto on the halls, it might be possible to just plug in any motor to any controller and ahve it at least owrk "normally" the first time around, by matching colors, insead of swapping halls and/or phases.


THen there are all these spots labelled that have nothign wired to them:
M1
M2
M3
M4
(all just below the MCU, probably a programming socket; in the center of those four are four mroe that are all ground, makinga two-row 8pin header)

A2

YBS

LEMP (whcih has a marking for a diode next to it, that might go to an external brake light wire?)

SL

XS
GND

B-
B+
(these two are next to a marking that looks like a relay could be installed there, perhaps for brake lights? Haven't traced where the source signal would come from for the possible relay coil pads).

ZL

XL

YK (this is a four pin header type, +V then two linked pads YK then ground)

A4 (this is a two pad marking inside a circle like a cap marking)

An ideas on what the alphabet soup means would be appreciated.

[amberwolf]

Well, I officially blew up this controller.

DSC05618.JPG (54.79 KiB) Viewed 1385 times

I was trying to fix this:
viewtopic.php?p=514144#p514144

where the wires apparently just broke off at the pads inside and pulled right out of the case, for two halls plus hall power.

I successfully soldered the wires back in place, (except I put the halls in same color order as phases just to make things easy on me later), reassembled the controller. Hooked it all up and got nothing. DMM showed only 1.4V on the hall power line, but 5V on throttle, so I figure I must've soldered the wire on the wrong pad or something.

Opened up the controller, and couldn't hold the DMM probes steady enough to guarantee not shorting anything out while I probed for another 5V pad, so I just pulled the hall power wire back out of hte case and spliced it into the throttle power line. Still read 5V, so I must've had the wrong pad. Dunno how...it looks like the same one it was on in pics earlier in this thread.

Anyway, fixed that, and was setting everything up to test it before putting the case back on, just in case I screwed up something ELSE. Hooked it all up, set the hall wires from motor in same color order as the hall wires from controller since now they shoudl work that way. Held the motor case a bit off the ground while resting the edge of the case on the mat, just so it will not end up twisting and ripping wires.

Powered up, normal current draw per WU, lightly squeezed throttle up and motor spins...then my previously-broken left hand (that has never healed right and has been hurting a lot since late last week) spikes pain and I lose my grip on the motor. I tighten my grip on the throttle without thinking, as I try to catch the motor, and it spins faster and twists the wires out of my hands.

That wouldn't have been a problem, if I hadn't A) not yet put the cover back on the controller, and B) left a pair of needlenose pliers about a foot from where I was working with the motor.

Naturally, the powered up controller PCB landed right on the only metal implement within several feet of it, resulting in an incredible show of sparks that scared every dog out of the room in about a tenth of a second. It took me several seconds to react, cuz I'm tired and my hand was really hurting at that moment, but i got the power disconnected, which stopped the sparking.


Results: Mat, pliers, and controller have interesting burn marks. At least one FET is shorted, cuz the motor is pretty hard to turn.


So...now I have to figure out what exactly is blown, and I have to hope it's only FETs--those I have spares of, and can physically work with. If it's something else, I'm not so sure I can fix it.


Crossposted to the motor thread, too:
viewtopic.php?p=514879#p514879

[amberwolf]

I forgot to update this thread that I at least partially repaired the controller, blown FETs:
viewtopic.php?p=515777#p515777
so now it works but not quite exactly like it used to. There's video of the phase waveforms there, and you can see none of the phases is exactly the same, but they should be. Not sure what's wrong exactly still. Gate drivers, I suspect.