Oatnet goes Vectrix!

[MitchJi]

Hi,

At the Intermot in Köln/Cologne in Germany, a member from Vectrix-Forum-Deutschlend took some photos of V´s with Lithium branding!

Pictures here:
http://www.vectrix-forum.de/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&gid=1&Itemid=53

[oatnet]

Dana came by and installed the 70mph firmware today!

Plus an update to my Oct '08 charger software.
Plus while I knew that with the killswitch on, the left-brake shows throttle position, I learned that the right-brake shows ideal position for the throttle. I had been concenred because he speedo needle trembles when I test my throttle, Dana said that was normal. Plus a demonstration on how to adjust the throttle - unscrew the end cap, loosen the 1.5mm hsx screw, adjust throttle to desired position, and bolt back down.

I can't wait to take it out for a test drive - tomorrow if I am lucky.

-JD

[BLUESTREAK]

HI OATNET: How can I get hold of DANA to update my firmware to the new stuff, I still have the old settings in mine and I know this will cause battery problems later on. thanks COOPER. PS i LIVE IN tampa,FL.

[oatnet]

Dana reset the controller/charger etc memory, so per his instructions I rode until the battery light came on to fully drain the battery, and then gave it a full charge - which took an unherad of 10-11 hours and pumped almost 7kw into the 4kwh battery. I also noticed the temp at a whopping 38c during one of the 3a charge cycles.

On the battery-drain ride bike did feel more powerful above 35mph as Dana mentioned it would. I had it up a hair off 113km, so call it a true 70mph, maybe a little more if you can let the speed build up. We'll have to see if the 'gas gauge' is also more accurate as advertised, and if the pump-up charging cycles balanced the pack.

My left-grip charge delay is back to an hour, and I can't reset to my preferred 1.5 hours, I have to look up that procedure to see if I am doing it wrong.

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Lithium announced in France:
http://www.scooter-infos.com/actualite-6228-intermot-2010-vectrix-lithium-pour-mars-2011.html

Here's the Google translation to English:

Until now run by Ni MH (Nickel metal hydride), the Vectrix maxi-scooter going on today in lithium technology, a new version sold in France next spring. No indication of price yet, but we expect an increase from the current model on sale for € 7850, however, to stay below € 10 000 ...

Accessible with a simple car license despite its scorching performance, the VX-1 Li is capable of 110 km / h (clamping at 100 km / h on the current version) and go from 0 to 100 km / h in 8 seconds.

The power is set at 27 hp and maximum torque of 65 Nm! But the weight goes from 231 to 200 kg, one of the major advantages of lithium is its relative lightness.

Autonomy will be improved from 50 to 100 km on the current version to version 80-130 km on the Li The integrated charger allows charging to 80% in 3.5 hours (2.5 hours on NiMh version) .

Batteries like all the scooter will be guaranteed for 2 years with a lifetime announced 80 000 km or 10 years.

Aesthetically, nothing new to report, except for a shorter bubble.

The project of a "mini" Vectrix is postponed.

Here's the associated image gallery:
http://www.scooter-infos.com/photos-act ... -2011.html

[BLUESTREAK]

I was able to contact DANA by E-MAIL and he said that when he comes this way for his next vesit he will do my 2007 VECTRIX upgrades.Now this makes me feel alot better about my VECTRIX.

[antiscab]

If you have the data cable and diagnostic software,

PM me and I'll send you a copy of the latest firmware:
BCR 3001
MCR 1017 - 68mph
IMC 1008 - (most people will already have that loaded, but one bike I upgraded had 1004).

btw, my newest diagnostic software is 2.1, does anyone have any newer?

Matt

[MitchJi]

Hi Matt,

What is required other than the firmware, the diagnostic sw and the cable?

Where do you get the the diagnostic sw and the cable and roughly how much do they cost?

[BLUESTREAK]

HI OATNET: Take a look at the video of the (BMW ELECTRIC BIKE) in the electric scooters general discuision threads.

[oatnet]

I FINALLY got my Vectrix's Title yesterday, got the Tags a week or so back, it is a real scooter now! Roughly 8 months after I bought it. It took a lot of hassling with the Dealer, who kept on telling me it was in progress. When I finally got uppity about it, things started to happen, but even then it took 2 months to resolve. I suspect the problem was the Serial-Number typo, and the Dealer's DMV person not knowing how to handle it - someone from an affiliated dealer finally worked it out.

In honor of that, I'll post the notes I took for myself, on the steps I needed to take to change my Vectrix's fuse without removing the 100lb rear battery as specified in the shop manual. Please keep in mind that I am a rank amateur, what I did would never be condoned by Vectrix, and that I am damn lucky I didn't fry myself or trash the controller with an errant tool. If you are foolish enough to imitate what I did, you probably will not be so lucky, so you take that risk upon yourself.

A while back, I blew the fuse on my Vectrix at 870 miles. I never used regen on the bike (hoping to avoid the dreaded fuse problem), I was not accelerating, or riding over a rough surface. I was cruising smoothly downhill when I noticed that the bike didn't seem to be pulling so hard; The gauges were lit, I was still moving, but when I spun the throttle nothing happened. I looked for a spot to glide into, and as I looked down, the gauges were dark, the speedo frozen at @45kph. AAA towed me home.

Judging by reports on visforvoltage, this seems to be a common problem, but since my brand-new Vectrix didn't come from the Authorized Dealer with a warrantee (surprise!), and when I emailed my problem to the service line I got no response, so I was on my own and a bit nervous about it. I should mention that Dana from Vectrix did visit me and upgrade my software later, and he reported that losing the fuse was not a common problem. Figures it would happen to me.

It is possible that Vectrix got a bad batch of 125a fuses. It is also possible that they underestimated current spikes, the recommended replacement is a 200a fuse, I won't know until I get a CycleAnalyst on it. However, my pet theory is that somewhere along the assembly/custody line, the batteries were reconnected without an Inrush Current Limiter, and the current spike at 150v weaken the fuses. Normal use, heat cycling, etc, and the fuse fails.

Anyhow, here is what I did to Open the Battery Case and change the fuse!

(EDIT 6/17/2011: Replaced pics trashed by forum upgrade )

Lift the passenger seat to reveal this plate, all of the bolts with colored lines come off, replace the bolts after removing plates/etc to keep track of what goes where.
1) Remove the Red Bolts, and the main seat tilts forward for removal, exposing the battery shroud.
2) Remove the Yellow bolts, and the trunk latch plate is free of the trunk.
3) Remove the Green bolts to disconnect the trunk latch plate from the chassis.
With the Green and yellow bolts removed, the trunk latch plate swings free, and can be carefully stored in the trunk for the duration of the operation.
4) Remove the blue bolts to free the trunk light sensor. Unplug/remove the sensor, because the removing the plenum forced it right through the sensor. I frequently charge with my seat open and hate seeing that light on, I considered removing the sensor, but there may be that one time I need it at night, so I ended up replacing it.

000Rear Mount_0979.JPG (44.11 KiB) Viewed 1984 times

Note the metal loop on the front of the plenum cover, which is the third point holding the seat (removed in the last step). Remove 4 bolts indicated by green lines, they secure the back of the battery shroud to the plenum. The shroud is just a pretty cover for the upper plenum and the battery box.

00_upper_shroud_0792.JPG (39.42 KiB) Viewed 1960 times

I need to remove a screw for the battery shroud, and it is behind the trim panel, which is

behind the passenger footpads. Start by removing the rubber passenger footpads. They peel up

easily enough, although I imagine I could tear off one of the rubber feet if I pushed too hard.

Mine had some kind of glue filling in the holes for the rubber feet, I had to remove it to

reinstall the footpad. I meant to reglue them, but just realized I forgot and they haven't

blown away yet. (Edit: I lost one 7/2011. )

01_passenger_step_0791.JPG (36.65 KiB) Viewed 1984 times

Next, you need to remove the black plastic trim piece that is behind the foot pad to expose the shroud screw. In this picture, I have gently pried back the left side of it with a screwdriver.

02_Passenger_step_removed_0789.JPG (27.06 KiB) Viewed 1960 times

The shroud screw is indicated by the green line, right side. Remove this screw on both sides.

03_cover_strip_removed_0787.JPG (38.07 KiB) Viewed 1984 times

The screw has been removed. There are interlocking tabs between the shroud and bodywork right next to this screw. When you remove the shroud in the next step, you will need to carefully work these tabs apart to avoid breaking them.

04_bolt_removed_0783.JPG (48.92 KiB) Viewed 1960 times

Peel up the front footpads, remove the bolts indicated by the green lines. I think you also have to remove the on the left screws indicated by the purple lines, I forget. The whole shroud will lift off when it is unbolted, and you have worked the tabs mentioned in the last step.

05_foot_pad_removed_0785.JPG (32.23 KiB) Viewed 1984 times

Finally, we see the plenum. This is a tough plastic/resin material that appears to serve many purposes. It houses a fan and is designed to pull air over the battery pack and blow it out over the controller. It also transmits the rider's weight from the seat down to the aluminum frame. It shields the pack from the elements, although elements still can be drawn through the plenum with the batteries cooling airflow.

Finally, I believe it is designed to contain the battery pack within the chassis in the event of an accident. I recently saw a maxi-scoot here comparing itself to Vectrix; one of the photos was of T-sky cells being jammed into a tube frame without any battery tub whatsoever. Details like this plenum structure (and the aluminum tub frame) highlight the difference between the American ("how can we be sued") approach and the Chinese ("how can we make it work") approach.

06_battery_cover_0782.JPG (44.52 KiB) Viewed 1984 times

Bolts Removed

08_plenum_unbolted_0768.jpg (47.94 KiB) Viewed 1960 times

Unplug this fan connector.

10_fan power connector 0780.JPG (55.36 KiB) Viewed 1984 times

Here is a picture of the back end of the plenum/battery case cover. Removing it is a pain because it is an interference fit with the plate for the trunk light sensor, and you have to FORCE it past. The trunk plate bends a disturbing amount when you do this, but I read that is just how it is. Even worse, in a few pics I'll show you the "hook" shape that requires you to lift the plenum up, as well as forward, to clear.

12_rear_plenum_0776.JPG (63.66 KiB) Viewed 1960 times

This is a picture of the front end of the plenum/battery cover, under the keyswitch. The whole cover has to come upwards, which means it slides past the connector in the red circle. Separate the connectors, move the left side out of the way, and tape the other side up and as far from the plenum as you can get it. Be careful of this connector while removing the plenum!

13_front_plenum_inteference_0772.jpg (50.08 KiB) Viewed 1960 times

Lift the front of the plenum up past the connector like this. Because of the "hook" shape at the back of the plenum, the whole plenum must come UP before you can angle the tip out.

14_lift_front_plenum_0775.JPG (52.38 KiB) Viewed 1960 times

Force the back of the plenum past the trunk plate. I was very worried I was forcing it to such an angle I would break it. Thankfully, I did not. Your luck may vary.

The picture is the plenum removed, back end. On the top left you can see the “hook” shape of the plenum. It is resting on the trunklight sensor plate. You can see the top of the controller peeking past.

15_plenum_interference_2_0773.JPG (77.65 KiB) Viewed 1960 times

Another shot of the plenum/plate overlap, with the back of the plenum on the lower left.

16_plenum_interference_fit_0774.JPG (67.29 KiB) Viewed 1960 times

The removed plenum sitting above of the battery case.

17_plenum_lifted_0772.JPG (43.05 KiB) Viewed 1960 times

Plenum removed, looking into the aluminum tub that houses the 200lb battery pack. This tub is very robust. I figure if I could fill it with 200lb of those a123 prisimatics, I could upgrade from 30ah to 100ah. The NiMh packs are HUGE, so there is plenty of room in there. It is odd, I had posted somewhere about adding a shunt for a CA to the Vectrix, and someone who has posted a lot told me "good luck finding space in there". Shoot, I could fit a dozen shunts :rolleyes:

The front of the bike is to the left, where you can see the red key switch. Underneath that is the blue Anderson connector that connects the front and rear batteries. If you follow the leads from the blue connector to the right, you will see a blue line; this is the start of the rear battery pack. The rear pack is protector with a black battery cover that has 4 x 5 white holes through it for ventilation. The front pack is the same size as the rear, but it extends under the fairing a bit.

If you look all the way to the right, this is the rear of the bike, where the controller is mounted. It is under a perforated metal cover. The fuse is mounted to the controller, under the metal cover, right where the green box is drawn.

Now, from this angle, it looks like it would be real easy to get to, right? Wrong. With the battery packs in the way, you don't have clearance to get tools in to work on the controller. I'd love to get a few minutes of alone time with the engineer who put the fuse in a remarkably inaccessible section of the bike. :D I bet it looked great on drawings, until they inserted the giant nimh battery packs in the way.

So, to work on the controller, you have to remove the 100lb rear battery pack. This is accomplished by screwing a pair of custom factory EYELETS onto threaded rod, located at the red circles on this photo. You then use an engine hoist to yank the rear 100lbs pack out, using the hooks on the threaded rods. This is the way the service manual says to do it, this is the way everyone I have seen posting so far has done it.

But ye gods. I don't have a lift, no idea where to get the eye bolts, and I'm just not thrilled with the whole notion. I thought maybe I could get in with an angled screwdriver, knowing full well that one errant flick of a tool could trash my controller with no hope of replacement on the horizon. I'm a bit of a fool that way, so I decided to give it a go.

20_opened_0771.JPG (45.43 KiB) Viewed 1960 times

First order of business, unplug the blue anderson connectors that join the front and rear packs to break the circuit. There is typically lethal voltage still in the capacitors, but the bike had sat unpowered for a few weeks, so I knew it was drained, but I still checked for voltage before tooling up. If you do not definitively know how to check this specific system for hazardous voltage, do not attempt this. If there is a question in your mind, you are risking your life.

I put a moving blanket over the battery packs for the duration of the exercise. It is easy to drop a tool or short a pack and create fireball, or put yourself in the circuit. Covering the packs is easy insurance, and good for the bodywork too.

22_unplug pack_0738.JPG (59.07 KiB) Viewed 1960 times

The controller with cables plugged in. They would interfere with removing the controller cover, so I unplugged them and blue-taped them out of the way.

27_controller_connected_0821.jpg (74.88 KiB) Viewed 1960 times

Here is the controller assembly, cables taped clear. The fuse is under the controller cover where the green box is. The red circles indicate the (3) screws you need to remove to pull the cover plate away from the wall. The three screws go through the cover plate, and three hollow steel sleeves that stand the cover plate off from resting on the electronics. When you remove the screws, these steel sleeves will fall through controller, down the slot between the back of the battery and the aluminum chassis, to the airspace under the 100lb battery packs. Try to catch them, I dare you. Oh, by the way, you can't reassemble the controller cover without them. Since I didn't know WTF to do, I just kept on trying to change the fuse.

With the screws out, one can slightly lift the cover plate off the controller. Of course, the power and phase wires come out THROUGH the cover plate at the bottom, so you can't simply lift the cover plate off (again, that engineer, dark alley), but you can open it enough to remove the fuse.

31_controller_fuse_0752.JPG (71.89 KiB) Viewed 1960 times

[oatnet]

continued...

(EDIT 6/17/2011: Replaced pics trashed by forum upgrade )

The tools. I used a tiny rachet (meant for a screwdriver) to reach through vent holes in the controller cover, remove the nuts holding down the fuse. There is one nut at the bottom of the fuse, another nut at the top of the fuse. A third nut holds a metal bar that goes across the top of the fuse, which must be removed to get the fuse out (engineer, alley). Above the rachet you see the bit I used for the nuts, when mounted it barely had clearance.


I used the long Phillips screwdriver with a light to hold back wiring when I looked for the steel sleeves. I poked the magnet-tipped pole through the wiring to get to the tray under the battery, and pull out the tubes. I got the first two in 3 minutes. The third took hours. :rolleyes: Finally I wheeled the bike to a steep incline, shook it up and down vigorously, and that rolled the last one to the back where I could get at it with the magnet.

I used the red-handled long clip to hold the sleeves in place when I bolted the cover plate back on.

Dunno what I used both pliers for, but I remembered I needed all of these tools.

33_tools_0753.JPG (60.81 KiB) Viewed 1959 times

On the left, the 125a LoserFuse (littelfuse) that has blown on a lot of Vectrix Owners. On the right the 200a recommended replacement, the Bussman FWX-200A. People have paid $60+ for these, I bought this new-in-the-box on ebay for $10, and when I asked the seller how much for a second, she threw it in for free, so I have a spare. God I hope I never have to do THIS again.

34_30_loserfuse_0746.JPG (68.09 KiB) Viewed 1983 times

Remember that if you are unsure of voltages or have not disconnected the battery, this is the point where you could easily kill yourself. Don't do this if you don't have the skills to make it safe.

Remember that a very simple tool slip here will trash your controller, and I think Vectrix wanted $2,000+ for a new one, if you can source it.

Remember that if the cover cuts the insulation on the phase or power leads, you will have intermittent issues followed by catastrophic failure. There is not much room under the cover to move the fuse around, take care not to push the fuse against fragile electronics, or the cover against the wire insulation.

With all that in mind, remove and replace the fuse, which is held in by (3) nuts. Two nuts are at the top and bottom of the fuse. At the top of the fuse, there is a metal bar that holds the fuse down, and conducts power from the top of the fuse to the controller. This bar is secured in the middle by a plastic hoop, so you can't just move it out of the way to remove the fuse. You have to unbolt the other side of this bar to remove the fuse. Oy! Don't drop the nuts or you will be sorry!

Here is a photo of me bolting in the new fuse. You can see the angle rachet bolting on the lower bolt. Through a hole, you can see the metal bar that sits on top of the fuse, waiting for a nut.

Afterwards, carefully work the controller cover back into place and bolt it back down. I used the clamps shown above to hold the steel sleeves in place while I re-inserted the bolts.

When the fuse is fixed, time to reconnect all the plugs by the controller. I noticed I had knocked loose a lot of grommets through the frame, and took great care to replace them, so as to not wear the insulation on wiring.

Now it is time to reconnect the power. You can't just plug the batteries together, the voltage surge would damage the components. I would not be surprised if the the 125a fuses are failing because someone at the factory simply plugged packs together, and it took a while for the weakened fuse to fully fail under normal duty.

When I build a switchbox for an EV, I put two switches in series with a resistor around the second one. When the first one closes, it lets a little current through the resistor to charge up the caps. When the second one closes, full power is available, no surge. I just needed a temporary solution, so like you see in the video, I used a light bulb as a resistor, and jammed cables into the back of the connectors to complete the circuit.

35_bolting_in_Fuse_0745.JPG (41.35 KiB) Viewed 1959 times

A prolific Vectrix poster lamented how he couldn't get to the front battery connector to connect an ICL (inrush current limiter) like I did. As you can see, my bike had a lot of movement of the cable.

46_pack overlap_0768.JPG (59.03 KiB) Viewed 1983 times

Looking in the back of the Anderson, there is plenty of space to jam that wire in!

47_back of connectors_0767.JPG (36.97 KiB) Viewed 1959 times

Here is the Battery Reconnection happening. Note the moving blanket. Also notice that I tape each connecting wire in place to secure it.

After making SURE I am connecting each pair of terminals correctly, I ran a wire across a pair of terminals. I put a 7w nightlight bulb between the other pair of terminals, to act as a resistor. The bulb eliminates a current spike from thirsty capacitors by limiting the amount of current going to them. When the light goes out, the caps are fully charged, and you can connect the two plugs. Once the plugs are connected, carefully remove one wire at a time.

With the battery pack connected, installation is the reverse of the above. Inspect the grommets around all wiring (like the plug under the keyswitch removed for the plenum) to make sure they are correctly mounted and protection the wiring.

The plenum on its side so you can see how it fits and guides airflow.

50_plenum_vs_pack_0766.JPG (62.84 KiB) Viewed 1983 times

Another plenum fitment shot.

51_plenum_vs_2_0762.JPG (44.05 KiB) Viewed 1983 times

[oatnet]

And some Big Pics for closer inspection. Click on the picture to see a much larger, detailed version. If you want to see a full-size version of any other pics from this operation, let me know and I'll post it.

Here is a shot of the plenum bolted to the battery tub.

The battery tub showing front and rear batteries, as well as the controller assembly on the right.

A close up of the controller, see the replaced fuse on the lower left?

[oatnet]

I wrote this offline a month or so back, and just remembered to post it...
====================================================================

After riding 1100+ miles on my Vectrix, I attended an MSF BRC (Motorcycle Safety Foundation Basic Rider Course). I thought I might pick up some safety tips, but I mostly took it because in California, I don't have to take the Driving test if I pass the BRC. After practicing on the DMV course on the weekends, I thought the driving test was well-neigh impossible; one of the instructors confirmed this, mentioning that the CA Motorcycle diving test was designed in the 1950's by someone who had never even ridden a motorcycle...

I passed the written last March to get my permit, but some other folks in the class hadn't even done that, or ridden a moto before. I was a little intimidated, because the Vectrix does not have gears to change, the rear brake is on the handlebars not the right foot, and it doesn't have a fuel shutoff valve. All of those things turned out to be simple issues, I adapted to the gears and brake quickly, and the fuel shutoff just had to be pointed out.

It is a 2-day class, culminating in a written test. I prepared by doing a google-search of the MSF site for PDF's, and dug up a hidden copy of the course manual. I read this thoroughly in the few days before the class, and got some good safety tips from it. It had all of the questions used on the test in the back, the subset of them in bold are apparently for the 1-day scooter class.

The lecture consisted of a presentation, a video, and then dividing the questions in the book between the 4 tables. Each table would state the answers to their set of questions, and everyone else would write down the answers, so the manual was more of a reference than something we read through. I was especially glad I read the manual up front (one read through was enough) because I finished the test first, a good 5-10 minutes before anyone else, and got 100%. The correct answers on the multiple-choice test are pretty obvious.

The riding course was GREAT. All of the instructors were FUNNY, and supportive, not a Tude in the bunch. Each instructor had (6) students. The bikes supplied were @250cc's; a ninja, a few honda cruisers, an enduro, and I had a Yamaha Yz dirt bike. Condition wasn't great, they all had drop scars, but they were good enough for the course's needs. The even had one that fit Cherry, a young lady I would say is @4'11"

The BRC has a great approach to building skills from absolutely no experience whatsoever, starting with duck-walking the bike, learning the clutch engagement by rocking the bike back and forth with the clutch, etc, and each exercise built on the last. The most common issues were "lift your head" to look downrange, not the front wheel, and "Knees in" to grip the tank. It helped to watch others - I saw one guy enter a turn cleanly, then stick out his knee, which made the bike bobble madly.

A light bulb went on for me, because I was doing the same thing. I could turn to the left fine, but felt wobbly on right turns. Because I felt wobbly, I'd throw out my right knee as preparation for putting my right foot down, which would throw off the balance and make me wobbly indeed. On ebikes, I am usually standing on the pedals in the corners. The Vectix's scooter-style seating does not allow one to stand at all, and I just got used to letting my knees flap outward, not realizing the profound effect that was having on my balance in turns.

Further, I learned that one should be steering the bike with your knees gripping the tank, and how powerful that type of control is. The Vectrix offers nothing to grip with your knees, but I later found out that since its seat cups my posterior firmly, I can get a similar level of control from my A$$. My next e-Moto (Brammo Empulse?) will have something to grip with my knees.

Then there is the whole push-the-handlebars-to-start-a-turn thing. A bunch of folks told me about it, I thought I was doing it, but not effectively. As I understand it now, the push simply breaks the bike out of its gyroscope and initiates the lean, which you then regulate with your knees (or a$$ cheeks in the case of scooter seating) to suit the turn. I didn't fully lock onto this until half way through the second day. Once I got it, I spent weeks riding slaloms on the street getting the feel. Before this course, I was slowing down enough on turns that I could steer with the handlebars. Thank goodness I didn't drive any curvy roads in the 10 months I had been riding, I would have ended up overshooting the turns. So gripping with the knees, and learning to push, were key to my getting better control, or even base competency. For this reason alone, I would recommend that others take this course before starting to ride.

Another key learning was that if you skid the back tire on the street, and it comes out-of-line, and you release the brake while rolling, the bike will line up on the new angle of travel, and will knock you down high-side. I had no idea, and I skidded the bike this week (kid on a bike rounded a corner and was head-on in the center of my lane). I didn't realize the skid until I let off the brake (almost stopped) and felt the bike bobble a good bit, fortunately my feet were down. The key is if you skid, don't let up until you are stopped.

Cherry dropped her bike on the first day, which the instructors are OK about (except for the final skills test) but she didn't come back. I was dreading the "box test" of the skills test, where you do 2 u-turns within a 20'x40' space. In the 25 or so times I practiced it, every time I put a foot down, or crossed over multiple lines, I just didn't have it down. I was hoping I wouldn't get so many penalties that I would fail... but when the final test came up, I flat-out nailed it. In fact, the only penalty I got was for holding the throttle steady in a turn instead of increasing it.

Although it is fun, it is a long grueling session. Bring lots of water and snacks. I was so exhausted after the first day I pretty much showered and fell into bed. Same for the second day, but I was bouyed up by passing the course to earn my M1 license. I got the certificate a week later, took it to DMV, and I'm waiting for the permanant license to arrive in the mail. I still haven't ridden at night, or on a freeway, or carried a passenger, the three things I couldn't do with my permit, but I am really glad I took the course, because now I approach basic competence. It occurs to me that the current period is probably when I am the most dangerous - now I think I can ride, but my skills need more time to develop.

==========================

I had been riding in a simple canvas jacket, but I bought myself a Tourmaster Transition II jacket with elbow, shoulder, and back armour. I took out the liner, and it is still adequate for the coldest SoCal weather. It has an incredible venting system with (10) zippered/Velcro'd locations, so I expect it will still be comfortable in Summer Socal weather. My favorite feature is the key pocket on the left wrist - I store my Vectrix key in there, and a house key on the provided bungi. 100 other well thought out details like this make me very happy with my purchase. I even wear it on ebikes now, so I have the armor and venting I need.

I considered buying it in Wine color to match my bike, but I bought it in silver/black hoping that the "zebra stripe=danger" effect will make me more noticable on the road and hence safer. The silver matches my gray/white helmet nicely. My workmates said I look like tron with it on, but my wife first said I look like a power ranger, so I now refer to myself as the "Middle-Aged Morphing Power Ranger" when so attired:

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!CFPFqNwBmk~$(KGrHqV,!hEE0gg7CBHtBNUbupYQ6!~~0_1.jpg (40.69 KiB) Viewed 2299 times

[fechter]

Holy crap! that was a lot of work just to replace a fuse.
Nice job though. Nothing blew up.

[etard]

Yeah, no wonder they went out of business! Who decided it was ok to bury the fuse in the guts of the thing and make it so freakin hard to get to!

Congrats on the course, my GF took that course and really enjoyed it as well. I recommend it to everyone, even if you don't have a motorcycle, it's alot of good info on the basics of two wheeled theory. I took that stupid circle test at the DMV at failed it the first time cuz my crappy motorcycle hit the steering lock and I actually had to lean over more and accelerate to get through the turn in the desired radius (didn't work, put a foot down ). So when I got home I realized my bar end was hitting the gas tank, I took those off and went back to the DMV to practice, and managed to pass it on the next appt. I see some guys on Craigslist advertising 50cc scooters that you can rent for the test, that seems to be the way to go if your bike won't make the ridiculous radius they require.

Have you taken the Vectrix on freeways? 70 mph might still be too slow for the freeways I ride on. I used to ride my GF's Yamaha XT225 to work and had to be in full tuck flat against the tank to get between 70-75 and even then I felt too slow to truly be safe. Better to ride with or faster than traffic flow on a motorcycle I say.

[Whiplash]

LOL! Try getting it right on your first street bike, a 2002 CBR 954RR!! LOL! I passed on the second try! Not easy at all though!! I barely made it!

[vanilla ice]

So you're getting a brammo next?? I remember that test.. the one non-pass was a short female for my class also.

[BLUESTREAK]

NEW VECTRIX ON EBAY ITEM # 110711112234 WAS ASKING $4600.00.

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Yeah, no wonder they went out of business! Who decided it was ok to bury the fuse in the guts of the thing and make it so freakin hard to get to!

That's one of many similar problems but the worst is the NiMH pack management. Good quality cells but it takes a miracle and very careful management not to destroy the pack.

NEW VECTRIX ON EBAY ITEM # 110711112234 WAS ASKING $4600.00.

Too much!

[oatnet]

I agree, NiMh has always been a balance nightmare, deserving of a bms, but 1.2v cells would make it need many channels and I guess the thermister was a cheap and dirty control scheme. My pack stays in balance because I ride it and opportunity charge it almost every day, on top of a full charge at night. Also, it works out that I usually use less than 1/4 range between charges.

I've had range anxiety a few times, like running errands after work without an opp chrg, encountering really strong battery-sucking headwinds all the way home, the last few miles eeking out 25mph in emergency mode. It's perfect for my commute, but I'd like to replace it with 45s3p of the a123 20ah packs, waiting for the right deal to come along.

I originally thought I could replace the NiMh with the headway pack in my VW bus, the battery tray felt HUGE when I was working on it up close; once I did the measurements though I realized there was only enough room for 34s3p of 10am cells.

The a123s would fit, weigh 1/3 less, and the extra kwh's would give me a TRUE balls-out 60 mile range. The Vectrix can handle 155v, which is resting voltage for 45s after the fluff has been burned off. Since the bike only pulls 125a, the cells will see 2c max, which means existing cooling will be adequate, and the voltage should stay above 145v as compared to 120v with the NiMh. The higher voltage translates to higher watts and the bike keeping that lively fresh-off-the-charger zip, for most of the discharge cycle. I'd probably have to balance the cells a few times a year and bleed it back under 155v. I'd also need to track current with a CA, but that is an upgrade I have wanted for a while anyhow.

The bike does what I need right now, so it would be foolish to dump big $$$ into a new pack. It would be nice to expand the bikes functionality with more range, so maybe when I see full-tabbed a123 20ah for $25, or those next-gen chemistries LFP has been talking about trickle down to us, I'll do it.

-JD

[oatnet]

The extensive pictures I had in the "fuse replacment" posts on the last page were lost in the forum upgrade. I just replaced them so you can see inside a Vectrix again.

-JD

[oatnet]

Just the strangest thing...

So this guy Steve Lam posts on visforvoltage\vectrix, that he is selling a Vectrix 30 miles away from me.

It isn't running, it's been dropped and scraped down the side (these bikes need service after being on their side), so it is a parts bike and he is offering it for $1,500. It would be a pain to store it, but its a reasonable price for a parts bike, so I email him. He replies that he'll send me a picture of the damage, but never does.

I forgot about it until I came across the email a week later, so I emailed him again, saying I figure he sold it since I didn't get a picture. He replies that he lost his phone, sends me pictures, and it looks pretty bad, but $1,500 is still an OK price for a parts bike. I tell him I'll take it at his asking price, and lay out some proposals for flat-bedding the dead bike to complete the exchange.

He writes back that "$1,500 is way too low of an offer" and if it doesn't sell, then he'll advertise it on a Vectrix forum where they appreciate the value of a parts bike (which is where I saw it in the first place).

Huh? Offer? I gave him his ask out of the gate! Now he wants a price that is only $200 less than I paid the Dealer for my Brand-New Vectrix.

I forward him his $1,500 post I responded to, and he says "Pointed JD. I will move on to other buyers."

Truly, Fully Bizzare. Sometimes, when you walk away from a deal, you realize that maybe you just dodged a bullet...

-JD

[vanilla ice]

I think this guy needs to learn how to negotiate properly. Sometimes you got to pay money to dodge bullets.. freebies are always good!

[heathyoung]

Sounds like a right idiot.

I'm in the process of building one up at the moment as well, getting parts for these is ... interesting.

[oatnet]

I'm in the process of building one up at the moment as well, getting parts for these is ... interesting.

What parts are you looking for?

My V's battery is showing its age. It still does my commute fine, but I am seeing higher temps on my pack, which means a cell low/dead/reversed and is heating up, which means it is gonna mess up the cells around it and do the same to them. Normally my bike would sit at 24-26c, and heat up to 28-29c during the ride. Now it heats up to 30-31 (where the cooling system really kicks in), and while pre-charge cooling gets it under 30, after sitting in the cool garage all night it actually heats up a few degrees instead of dropping to 26-24c.

So I'm going to replace the pack. I wrote down the size of the battery enclosure when I did the fuse change, but I lost those numbers. My conservative measurements made me think I could not fit a headway pack in there, so I had been considering a123's.

However, on visforvoltage, I recently read a post that said "the case is 225mm wide rather than 230. The frame is just shy of 230. You do have a tad more lenght, i.e. 710mm and you could get by with 340mm in high". So, 225mm x 340mm x 710mm = 8.86" x 13.39" x 27.95".If those numbers are accurate, I actually can fit a 45a5p Headway 38120s pack into that space. The plan is to move the 8kw Headway pack from my VW bus conversion into the vectrix, and I'll store the vectrix pack in the VW Bus, which only gets moved for street cleaning anyhow. This way the upgrade is free!

My biggest concern was the length of the box - but it looks like 5 headway cells, end-to-end, is @27", so I have just enough room to spare. 5 row of these cells in parallel is 7.5", so I have 1.5" across the width to spare. Unfortunately, I only have space to stack (8) of the 5s5p layers, yielding 40s, instead of the 45s I want. However, if I use the 3-hole Headway blocks instead of the 2-hole, I make the pack wider (it should just barely fit) but I can easily fit 9 rows in the height.

The Vectrix controller will handle 155v, and the charger goes up to 152v. 45s cells @3.65v nominal =164.25v, so some folks might be seeing a problem. However, 155/45=3.44v/cell, and headways quickly drop to a resting voltage of @3.4v after the charge, so when I charge/balance externally it will drop back into the 155v range, or maybe I'll string up a discharge circuit to bleed off some of the fluff. Most of the time I'll use the onboard charger, which should charge to 152v/3.38v/cell. I am expecting an average 2c discharge, @3.1v/cell, or 139.5v under load. That is higher than the starting voltage of the saggy NiMh pack, which translates to a more energetic bike.

I'll re-use the copper paralleling strips/fuses from the Bus conversion. I'm about to order blocks/connecting bars from headway, just wanna feel comfortable about the size of the pack. I need to make a temperature-sensor harness so I don't have to strip the one from the old pack. Then, maybe on my next vacation, I'll tear the old pack down, re-build it, pull the pack from the V and put it in the bus, then install the new pack into the V. That will be a tough week, but worth it to double the effective capacity of the pack, and lighten it by 16% (31.25lbs)

Hey, if the battery tub is empty on your bike, can you measure the usable length for me, maybe shoot a few pics of the empty tub?

-JD