Milan scooter electric conversion.

[Bluefang]

Hey guys,
I have started my shopping for building a Vmoto MIlan scooter into a 4-5kw Electric scooter. I am going to be using a RC controller, I am going to trial a http://cgi.ebay.com/Speed-Passion-SkyWa ... 27b97aa015 to control the motor, also going to buy a HV160(assuming it wont destroy the tiny motor) as a bench mark to determine if the Skywalker controller is good. The motor i am using will be the Turnigy 63-74-200 motor with new shaft bearings, removing the skirt bearing, and a new hardened steel shaft that i am going to get machined into the crank shaft driving the variator. The batteries are going to be a pack of 10sx20AH of Turnigy 5s 5000mAh 20C batteries(on sale in Australia HK) with the batteries i am kinda looking at making it 40AH cause i would like to have a very large range at the 50km/h speed limit, up too 100km would be ideal.

The Motor i am going to place where the crank shaft used to be, there is a area thats 75mm in diameter so i am going to bore out the un-needed side of the case to 90mm so i don't have any trouble with having metal too close to the motor and to help air flow. Most of the support for the engine and swing arm comes from the Variator side so i think i will be fine doing it like this. With the batteries i am kinda undecided as to how to mount them, seeing as the whole top of the engine is not going to be there i can mount 20AH directly in front of the swing arm just before the deck, and the other 20AH can go under the seat in place of the fuel tank etc. The main question is should i make the batteries removable, each 20ah block will weigh 6.5kg in a box, or should i just leave everything on the scooter and build a charger system so they just have to plug a extension lead into the scooter? Most people on the Gold Coast that run scooters live in apartments.

The Scooter itself i have bought off a member of a scooter forum i just posted on asking for a scooter with a dead engine for cheap....it was very cheap for what i am getting, almost perfect condition Vmoto Milan scooter with a number of handling modifications, larger wheels, disc breaks and better suspension cause he used to race scooters and he couldn't have his everyday one handling shit. He is taking his heavily modified engine out of the scooter and supplying me with a large box filled with enough parts to build 1-2 scooter CVTs with about 3-4 different performing parts for each section, driven pulley clutch springs etc. So it should be a fun little scooter by the end.

I have already started the process of getting it legal, it will cost me $300 to get the scooter certified as a electric engine conversion with a plate indicating that its still limited to 50km/h so i can ride it on a normal car licence. Then $200 for registration and 3rd part insurance + whatever it needs for a Roadworthy certificate. I plan on having this all built by the end of the month......I plan.

Anyone have any suggestions on bits i ll need for the scooter or suggestions on how to do the batteries or even better, if someone knows how the motor will go with the HV160 running it, not sure if the motor can handle 160amps even if its only at 10S.

[fizzit]

I have that motor, I think it is undersized for your application. As thud has told me and I have found out, the wattage rating is pretty optimistic, for continuous use. I have gotten 4-5kw from it in bursts, though.

[spinningmagnets]

I fear the motor may be a bit too small, perhaps the 80-100 might be a better fit?

Here's a similar build that may have some useful info for you...

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7868

[gwhy!]

Hi Bluefang,
all Sounds good what you have planned for this scoot. If it was me I would have the battery removable, as long as it will not be to much faffing about to remove them ( but also have a onboard charger ). Also the motor that you are looking at may not be the best choice ( as have been said ) I think its about right for the kv rating but just maybe a little low on power , this motor will do the job TGY AerodriveXp SK Series 63-74 170Kv / 3250W but its a real shame that the kv isnt a tad higher as this will make it so much easier tuning the transmission to get the performance that you may want. the bigger motor 6500kw 180kv would be a great motor for this project if running at a higher voltage more than 50v ( I guestimate you need about 10-11krpm so roughly around 60v will be needed ) to make it less of a problem tuning the transmission, But then comes the problem for the controller, the cc hv160 will be fine except with the 50v max voltage I also think the cheaper hv RC controllers will also be ok in this settup but still limited to the max voltage of 50v ( it still may be a good idea to have some sort of current limiting if using a RC controller. )

Im interested to see how this one comes together ..
Cheers.

[Bluefang]

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=17576 Seems to work fine with the smaller motor, i only want bursts of 5kw, with gears 2-3kw is more then enough to maintain 50km/h. Gwhy the Aerodrive motor you linked is smaller then the one i am planing on using in terms of weight, so the motor i have should be able to handle more power or atleast the same amount i would have thought. Thanks for your input on the batteries Gwhy, its kinda the direction i am heading

One guy has done a Peugeot scooter with the 80-100 turnigy in a CVT and to me for my application thats over kill, and the guy in the link you have isnt using a CVT so he would need to use a 80-100 sized motor, gears = Godlike, CVT = horny Goddess like on a electric motor

To hold a speed of 50km/h i would need roughly 1kw, what my current bike uses plus abit for the added weight and CVT, So having 2-3kw continues power in the motor i will be fine, the main question is how much burst can it take, ie will a HV160 blow it up with the minimum amps i can restrict it to been 160amps

[gwhy!]

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=17576 Seems to work fine with the smaller motor, i only want bursts of 5kw, with gears 2-3kw is more then enough to maintain 50km/h. Gwhy the Aerodrive motor you linked is smaller then the one i am planing on using in terms of weight, so the motor i have should be able to handle more power or atleast the same amount i would have thought. Thanks for your input on the batteries Gwhy, its kinda the direction i am heading

One guy has done a Peugeot scooter with the 80-100 turnigy in a CVT and to me for my application thats over kill, and the guy in the link you have isnt using a CVT so he would need to use a 80-100 sized motor, gears = Godlike, CVT = horny Goddess like on a electric motor

To hold a speed of 50km/h i would need roughly 1kw, what my current bike uses plus abit for the added weight and CVT, So having 2-3kw continues power in the motor i will be fine, the main question is how much burst can it take, ie will a HV160 blow it up with the minimum amps i can restrict it to been 160amps

The motor you have may well do the job as its better suited with the kv But I have no experience with this motor so it would be interesting to see how it will go. The 80-100 turnigy in a CVT would be overkill but give it a little more potential to up the power if needed. Im with you as regards using a cvt . When I was playing with a cheapo 100A hv rc controller on my scoot ( with a 80-100 motor ) I was not using any form of current limiting but I found that by adjusting the roller weights and clutch engagement you could tune the max current to be drawn by the motor even if the scoot was not moving i.e rear brake locked on and WOT , but If I was going to continue to run that setup I would have been happier if it did have a electronic max current limit. So if I didnt manage to blow a cheapo 100A hv controller then for a cc hv160 should be like a very slow stroll with a little sit down half way round in the park.

[Bluefang]

Hmm the controllers i am getting may be cheap but i am pretty sure they are USB programable and i will be able to set a current limit on them. Another question is how do people suggest i do the throttle, i am thinking of sticking to the current cable throttle and trying to source a after market TPS from a car to pull against? or should i just modify a pot with a spring and arm and just use the throttle cable to pull against that?

[Hillhater]

Hmm the controllers i am getting may be cheap but i am pretty sure they are USB programable and i will be able to set a current limit on them. ?

It will be a first if they do !
That is one of the issues with RC ESC's ... no max current limiting...hence why so many rc motors are burned on Ebikes with ESC's

[Bluefang]

Only reason i bought them is they say they are USB programmable on Ebay, but i have not found any proper specs on the HV version of the ESCs so i cant say for sure if it really is USB programmable and what usb connection is needed. Either way something good will happen Either a flash fire or a really good scooter.

[Bluefang]

I now have the ESCs in my posession, not too happy about them as they dont have any obvious USB connection. But they look solid enough to be ok with the smaller motor. And i got a delivery of batteries, still trying to decide if i need 1.6kwh worth or if 800kwh will be enough.

Also my engineer has come up with another way of doing the crank, i am no longer doing a direct connection but going to use a belt drive from outside the intake to a pully mounted onto the crank, it works out to cost the same and from my engineers perspective its ALOT easier to make sure its all true and straight similar to another scoot build on these forums. He is going to removed the large counter weight section of the crank and trim the end shafts down to 17-18mm and he will fit a sleave over the whole lot with a total diameter of ~22-24mm with sections at each end trimmed to 20mm. True it all up and hand it to me for $100 And now i just have to buy some timing pulleys for the belt drive(found a supplier in Aus who seems to be priced reasonably with express shipping too http://shop.ebay.com.au/greynurse2001/m ... 4340.l2562) and make a mount for the motor that i will design to hold a larger 80-100 motor too if needed, muhahaha

[vax]

I happen to have same scooter, except...electric! It's EVT-168 clone, made in China and very cheaply built.
It had 800W 48V hub motor with very cheesy chinese controller. Now it has 1500W 48V hub motor and Kelly 72V 3.3kw controller.



There's a picture of internals too:
http://www.upload.ee/image/1154256/IMG_4070.JPG

[Bluefang]

Lovely looking e-scooter there, i am just wondering whats the top speed on that scoot also how big is the battery pack and how far can you travel? Or even better would be your power used per mile/km. I am expecting something around 20WH per km.

I have been cleaning my Aluminum swing arm and engine case with Electrolysis, damn easy way to clean stuff Can't have a electric scooter all covered with oil and shit. And i tested 1/2 of my battery pack to see if its easy to lift and carry, mum says it is, so its all good

[gwhy!]

I now have the ESCs in my posession, not too happy about them as they dont have any obvious USB connection. But they look solid enough to be ok with the smaller motor. And i got a delivery of batteries, still trying to decide if i need 1.6kwh worth or if 800kwh will be enough.

Also my engineer has come up with another way of doing the crank, i am no longer doing a direct connection but going to use a belt drive from outside the intake to a pully mounted onto the crank, it works out to cost the same and from my engineers perspective its ALOT easier to make sure its all true and straight similar to another scoot build on these forums. He is going to removed the large counter weight section of the crank and trim the end shafts down to 17-18mm and he will fit a sleave over the whole lot with a total diameter of ~22-24mm with sections at each end trimmed to 20mm. True it all up and hand it to me for $100 And now i just have to buy some timing pulleys for the belt drive(found a supplier in Aus who seems to be priced reasonably with express shipping too http://shop.ebay.com.au/greynurse2001/m ... 4340.l2562) and make a mount for the motor that i will design to hold a larger 80-100 motor too if needed, muhahaha

If I was going to do this again I would also use a pulley to the crank instead of directly connecting. This way it is much easier to up the speed to the variator by reducing the size of the driven pulley.

[Bluefang]

I think i may be lucky as the guy i am buying the scooter from had already modified it with a 125cc engine or something, so when i said it would rev up to 8000rpm he said i would be doing 70-80km/h, way more then i need the scooter to be going so i might have to do the opposite lol

[Bluefang]

Time for a update, with lots of pics and questions to be solved

With the batteries i have 16x 5s5000mah Turnigy packs. They were on special and in Australia so i got them for $630 inc shipping Now my question is, can i parallel them into 2 packs or 5s40000mah by soldering all the balance leads and main leads together. Will they then act like just a massive pack that i can balance charge with 2x 200W 6S charger? I plan to build a meanwell bulk charger into the scooter for quick charging on the run up to like 85-90% and with the packs been removable having it so that when they are charged inside the house over night they have a balance charge from a RC charger. The battery packs are going to be build into some square formed PVC pipe and locked in under the seat extending into where the fuel tank used to sit, so roughly the same weight distribution as normal. Also for all the 12V stuff is running a 3s5000mah pack with a 12v power supply from the main pack going to be ok, or should i stick to lead for this?

The scooter finally arrived. still missing a lot of small bits that the guy is going to give me, so i have been dismantling what was left to be removed and it really really sucks that its the long weekend as i have not had any feed back from the engineer as to what i can do with the battery placement, so i am kinda stalled atm for a few days, still missing some bearings for the motor but i should still have most of it working by the end of the month or at least in the 1st week of next as i have some time off work soon.

Derek