Friction drive Tidalforce project (Ghetto electric v4.0)

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Friction drive Tidalforce project (Ghetto electric v4.0)

Postby EVTodd » Sat May 14, 2011 12:43 pm

I recently picked this up:

Image

I'm trying to decide what direction I want to go with it. I am considering buying one of Matt's drives but of course I keep thinking about making the ultimate friction setup (in my mind anyway) maybe even using an astro motor :twisted: .

I'm currently looking for a nice suspension fork with disc mounts if anyone has one for sale.
Last edited by EVTodd on Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
New Tidalforce friction drive build: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=28029

My Friction Drive Outrunner Setup: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9652&start=330
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Re: New Tidal Force project

Postby def215 » Sat May 14, 2011 10:18 pm

FRICTION DRIVE! FRICTION DRIVE! FRICTION DRIVE! :mrgreen:
but a matt drive does sound tempting too. :twisted:
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Re: New Tidal Force project

Postby EVTodd » Sun May 15, 2011 11:38 am

def215 wrote:FRICTION DRIVE! FRICTION DRIVE! FRICTION DRIVE! :mrgreen:
but a matt drive does sound tempting too. :twisted:



Lol. It will probably end of being friction drive. I really want to see how far I can go with it.

I'm searching the web for parts right now. :D
New Tidalforce friction drive build: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=28029

My Friction Drive Outrunner Setup: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9652&start=330
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Re: New Tidal Force project

Postby EVTodd » Sun May 15, 2011 2:06 pm

Ok... Here's what I'm thinking...

An Astro 3210 running at 44.4 volts should give around 40 mph with the roller I'm using. I'm thinking a Castle hv160 with these batteries:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=16214

Wired in series to give 44.4 volts. Would 25c be enough for this kind of setup? I'm still a bit ignorant when it comes to the electronic stuff.

Also, would the 3210 be ok at 12000 rpms? Astro's site shows the typical range at 6k to 10k rpms.
New Tidalforce friction drive build: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=28029

My Friction Drive Outrunner Setup: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9652&start=330
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Re: New Tidal Force project (Friction drive Astro?)

Postby EVTodd » Fri May 20, 2011 5:59 pm

Time for some more weekend shopping. Who has the best prices on Astro motors? Anyone have a used one they want to sell?

-EDIT- Wow, no responses at all. I guess everyone is getting sick of friction drive builds. lol :lol:
New Tidalforce friction drive build: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=28029

My Friction Drive Outrunner Setup: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9652&start=330
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Re: New Tidal Force project (Friction drive Astro?)

Postby EVTodd » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:54 am

Ok, I guess I'm going to go cheap again this time with a spare TowerPro motor I have sitting here. May as well, my first motor is still running strong even after re-gluing the can when it was starting to slip off. Still on it's original bearings too btw... We'll see how well they work at 44.4 volts.
New Tidalforce friction drive build: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=28029

My Friction Drive Outrunner Setup: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9652&start=330
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Re: New Tidal Force project (Friction drive Astro?)

Postby EVTodd » Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:54 pm

Finally got some parts in the mail so I started putting a few things together today.

Image

Getting closer to seeing just how far you can go with friction drive. No endless calculations, just throw more volts at it and see what happens :lol: .
New Tidalforce friction drive build: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=28029

My Friction Drive Outrunner Setup: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9652&start=330
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Re: New Tidal Force project (Friction drive Astro?)

Postby deVries » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:42 am

EVTodd wrote:Finally got some parts in the mail so I started putting a few things together today.

Getting closer to seeing just how far you can go with friction drive. No endless calculations, just throw more volts at it and see what happens :lol: .

Hey, it IS Todd, :shock: :D

You made my day, week, month to find you on ES & posting about another FD project you're doing! 8)

You are the FD man! :twisted:
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Re: New Tidal Force project (Friction drive Astro?)

Postby EVTodd » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:58 am

deVries wrote:Hey, it IS Todd, :shock: :D

You made my day, week, month to find you on ES & posting about another FD project you're doing! 8)

You are the FD man! :twisted:


Lol. Thanks devries!

I just decided it was time to put my money where my mouth was. I always talk about how I think friction drive can handle a lot more power than people think so now it's time to see if I'm right. I would still like to use an astro motor on this build but man they're expensive and hard to get your hands on from what I've seen.
New Tidalforce friction drive build: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=28029

My Friction Drive Outrunner Setup: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9652&start=330
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Re: New Tidal Force project (Friction drive Astro?)

Postby def215 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:52 pm

sweet. your FD builds always inspire me. i got a spare exceed monsterpower motor now so i think ill be building another FD bike soon. :D

will this one use the same concept as your last ones that uses the sliding plate mount to have variable pressure on the tire?
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Re: New Tidal Force project (Friction drive Astro?)

Postby EVTodd » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:12 am

def215 wrote:sweet. your FD builds always inspire me. i got a spare exceed monsterpower motor now so i think ill be building another FD bike soon. :D

will this one use the same concept as your last ones that uses the sliding plate mount to have variable pressure on the tire?



Thanks for the kind words Def.

Yup, I'm still using the sliding mount for this one. I'm going to have a bit larger range of movement so it can bite into the tire even harder if needed.

The only thing I may have an issue with on this bike is the clearance between my foot and the motor. I think it might be a problem on these bikes with short rear triangles. I may have to change the mounting a bit but it shouldn't be a huge obstacle.

I have almost all of the bike parts ready to go but I still need to order up some batteries and another castle controller.

Should be a fun little project. I think 40 mph and very good hill climbing ability is going to be easy to achieve. The big question is how well friction drive can accelerate without slipping like crazy but again, I don't think it's going to be a big problem.

I don't think I ever re-posted all of my photos so here is a shot of the drive for anyone that might not have seen it yet:

Image
New Tidalforce friction drive build: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=28029

My Friction Drive Outrunner Setup: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9652&start=330
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Re: New Tidal Force project (Friction drive Astro?)

Postby EVTodd » Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:57 pm

A little progress this weekend. Now I need to order some batteries and an esc.

Image

I'm a bit surprised by how small these Tidalforce frames are. My DJ frame is quite a bit longer. It should be a comfortable bike when it's done.
New Tidalforce friction drive build: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=28029

My Friction Drive Outrunner Setup: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9652&start=330
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Re: New Tidal Force project (Friction drive Astro?)

Postby EVTodd » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:04 pm

I've finally almost got the bike up and running. I should have my batteries before this coming weekend. Hopefully I'll be able to get some pictures and video up at that time.

It should be interesting to see if any of my outrunners can handle 44.4 volts. I believe most are rated for 37 volts. I'm hoping the low amps I pull with my setups will help. We'll see.

Has anyone else been annoyed by their Tidalforce frame and it's lack of normal cable guides? I realize they were trying to route most of them through the frame for a nice clean look but it's kind of a pain for routing the derailleur cable. I guess I have to expect some things like that on a frame that was built to be a specialty bike to a company's specs. I'm sure they never intended it to be built up by individuals.

I've also noticed that the derailleur hanger is super weak. I've never seen one that can bend as easy as this one. Does anyone know if Tidalforce frames use a standard hanger? If not, I'm going to cnc up a couple of spares 'cause I know it's only a matter of time before I bump it on something.

And don't get me started about how easy the paint scratches. lol. I'll stop complaining now. I got it super cheap anyway, for the price it's actually quite nice. I'm hoping that I'll be more impressed with it once I start riding.
New Tidalforce friction drive build: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=28029

My Friction Drive Outrunner Setup: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9652&start=330
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Re: Friction drive Tidalforce project (Ghetto electric v4.0)

Postby Solcar » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:03 pm

That frame triangle looks super strong.
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Re: New Tidal Force project (Friction drive Astro?)

Postby AussieJester » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:13 pm

EVTodd wrote:Time for some more weekend shopping. Who has the best prices on Astro motors? Anyone have a used one they want to sell?

-EDIT- Wow, no responses at all. I guess everyone is getting sick of friction drive builds. lol :lol:


I think replacing 'getting' with 'gotten' would be more appropriate :p members like myself OH, and Thud ESPECIALLY Thud are always extremely excited to see new friction drive builds :p Seriously, get an astro and one of Matts reduction drives, you have no idea the fun your missing buddy, either way best of luck :-)

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Re: Friction drive Tidalforce project (Ghetto electric v4.0)

Postby EVTodd » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:33 pm

Wow, just wow. I was just joking around about people hating on friction drive stuff but it's good to see how serious some people are about it.

I decided a long time ago not to debate the friction drive issue anymore so I'm not going to try to defend it at this point. I guess my thing is if you dislike it so much you can clearly see this is a friction drive thread, just don't read it and let people who might be interested in a cheap easy way to power a bike read it without the clutter.

I'm hoping to keep this thread on the subject of the build. Thanks! :D
New Tidalforce friction drive build: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=28029

My Friction Drive Outrunner Setup: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9652&start=330
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Re: Friction drive Tidalforce project (Ghetto electric v4.0)

Postby EVTodd » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:23 pm

Solcar wrote:That frame triangle looks super strong.



Yup, I'm betting the frame itself it pretty strong. I've always been a fan of chromoly frames but this one is so beefy (and such a great price) that I thought I would give it a try. I was just a bit surprised at how weak the hanger was. I literally just bumped it a little and it bent (a lot).

I got a chance to ride it as a normal bike tonight, the frame really feels short to me compared to my dj frame but overall it feels nice and solid. We'll see what it feels like at full speed later this week.
New Tidalforce friction drive build: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=28029

My Friction Drive Outrunner Setup: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9652&start=330
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Re: Friction drive Tidalforce project (Ghetto electric v4.0)

Postby gtadmin » Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:15 am

Not everyone is sick of FD, I enjoy most (not all though) of these builds even if I were to never build one myself. Got a closeup piccie of your current setup?

Cheers,
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Re: Friction drive Tidalforce project (Ghetto electric v4.0)

Postby EVTodd » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:21 am

gtadmin wrote:Not everyone is sick of FD, I enjoy most (not all though) of these builds even if I were to never build one myself. Got a closeup piccie of your current setup?

Cheers,
GT


I'm going to try to get some new pictures of it this coming weekend. If I didn't work second shift I would probably have this done by now. The good news is that I just got the batteries yesterday so it's just about go time. :D
New Tidalforce friction drive build: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=28029

My Friction Drive Outrunner Setup: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9652&start=330
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Re: Friction drive Tidalforce project (Ghetto electric v4.0)

Postby EVTodd » Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:12 pm

I got the bike pretty much done this weekend:

Image

After I realized I didn't care much for this frame we decided this was going to be a bike that my gf rode more than me (it's the perfect size for her ). Well... After getting it running at 12s she give it a spin. She came back and said "f#*$ this!", I'm not riding it (she hardly ever cusses btw)! I guess it was a bit too hairy for her! :lol: I tried it first and had a top speed of 38 mph. She's a lot lighter so I'm sure it felt REAL fast compared to her 5s Kona.

Anyway, long story short, she's now running at 6s2p on this one with a top speed of 23 mph. I'll switch it back from time to time just for fun but the fact is I think anything over 30 mph is really pushing it on a bike unless it's a full on downhill setup. The friction drive worked great at the higher power levels though. I'll get some video of it on 12s soon.
New Tidalforce friction drive build: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=28029

My Friction Drive Outrunner Setup: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9652&start=330
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Re: Friction drive Tidalforce project (Ghetto electric v4.0)

Postby adrian_sm » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:39 am

8)
Build #1 ~28kg ~ 700w Avanti Hardtail Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway. ~5500 kms to date. (retired)
Build #2 ~30kg ~2000w Giant AC Dually Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway + 6s10Ah LiPo = 70V. ~15000 kms to date [SOLD]
Build #3 ~13kg ~2000w Commuter Booster <1kg Friction Drive in Beta testing (www.commuterbooster.com)
Build #??? ~21kg ~1500w Adrian's Bafang BPM Hardtail MTB Bafang BPM code12, 15s LiPo, ~40kph, ~30kms
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Re: Friction drive Tidalforce project (Ghetto electric v4.0)

Postby Whiplash » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:47 pm

I would like to do a build like this! My youngest brother needs better transportation and this would be great! Do you have any more close ups of the simple drive?? What was the diameter of the friction roller and KV of the motor?
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Re: Friction drive Tidalforce project (Ghetto electric v4.0)

Postby spinningmagnets » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:16 pm

I'm not going to say an FD is for everyone, but I am happy with the copy I made of your drive, Todd, and I'm not embarrassed to say it. I no longer live on the third floor of an apartment building, so I no longer need to pop off the seat post and carry the seat + drive upstairs (its in the garage now), but...while I did, I clearly saw how this would be a benefit to a college student/apartment-dweller.

Ever since I upgraded to a square-profile beach cruiser tread (as you suggested), roller-traction is great. I haven't been in a hurry to get another E-bike kit because...this one (your design) works fine. I'm running 37V on a one-inch roller (this bike pic is old).

edit: Castle Creations ESC logs 40A to accelerate, 10A for cruise, so...aH consumption is low (26:1 reduction, roller-to-tire)

Image
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Re: Friction drive Tidalforce project (Ghetto electric v4.0)

Postby EVTodd » Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:16 pm

Here's a quick picture of the drive:

Image

I was using a Towerpro 5330 at 12s when I was riding it. My gf is running on 6s with a turnigy Turnigy 50-65.

I went with a simple seat post mount on this one. The roller is higher on the tire than I like but it still works perfect.
New Tidalforce friction drive build: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=28029

My Friction Drive Outrunner Setup: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9652&start=330
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Re: Friction drive Tidalforce project (Ghetto electric v4.0)

Postby Jehu » Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:09 am

Well!

If this is the getto, which one is the slick one :mrgreen:

nice job :D

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EVTodd wrote:Here's a quick picture of the drive

I was using a Towerpro 5330 at 12s when I was riding it. My gf is running on 6s with a turnigy Turnigy 50-65.

I went with a simple seat post mount on this one. The roller is higher on the tire than I like but it still works perfect.
Last edited by Jehu on Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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