Noob Lipo Dummy (need a Lot of help)

[AussieJester]

Sadly Iv'e already ordered/bought the Icharger101b+ from HK so i'll make do with that for the time being. Further funds are now going into a power supply - batteries more wire and anything else i'll need to keep an eye on my batts while I ride.

I still have a lot I could be getting on with but with 2ft of snow covering everything in my area...well

Any news on your missing seat Kim?

Regards
Tom

Its not missings, its in Mexico :-S Recumpence has been in contact with the seller as he is in Chicago where the seller is has been told they are looking into it...

KiM

[TopCat]

I ended up going for the Propeak Power Supply 240>13.8v 20A Auto, which I got for £20 of ebay. It shouldn't take to long to get here as the seller is only just 40mile up the road in Glasgow.



Regards
Tom

[TopCat]

Hi Guy's,

My ICharger 1010B+ finally arrived today.After checking the contents of the box I see no way of - Out of the box quickly charging the 2 Turnigy 5000mAh 5S 25C Lipo Packs I have.
There doesn't seem to be any way (through lack of proper leads) of charging up my batts until I make up some kind of charging lead Unless I do something like this...?



and use the crocodile clips on the ends of the battery connections. Looks a bit dodgy!!

I think I may have to snip the croc clips off the Icharger leads and solder on a HXT 4mm Gold Connector....



so I can start charging up my batts. I'll solder another HXT 4mm gold connector onto the croc clips so I can quickly plug the croc clips back together should I ever need to use them.

I'll also need to make up a lead to connect my 2 batts in series.

This is the list of battery related stuff I have so far.

1 Icharger 101B+.
1 Propeak Power Supply 240>13.8v 20A Auto.
4 Meters of 12awg wire. 2 mtrs Red & 2 mtrs black.
2 Packs (20 in total) of HXT 4mm Gold Connectors.

Looks like my night will be spent doing some soldering

As I have never used one of these chargers before are there any tips - things I should look out for etc.

Regards
Tom

[TopCat]

Hi guy's,

Think Im going to need a bit of help wiring up my 6 batts (4 new) to run my 36V 500w motor.

I have already used 2 batts hooked up with a harness like this and all runs well...



but im running into the unknown tryting to hook up 6 batss?

I was planning to do it like this...

Step 1.
Make up 3 sets of serial harnesses like so. One for each of the 3 sets of lipos.



Step 2.
Make up 2 long leads with HXT 4mm Gold Connectors - (same connectors that come fitted on lipo batteries). Soldering the connectors on each end of the long leads will be relitivly simple - one for the connection to the controller and one for the last set on batts - (last set of batts on right of picture). The splicing of the 1st & 2nd sets of batts will be a bit tricky. WHY dont they make a 2 into 1 connector?

Step 3.
Hopefully when all done it should look something like this...



Im just checking to see if I have this right? before I go blowing myself up.

Regards
Tom

[BikeFanatic]

The question is do you hook up the batteries in series first then paralleled, like you did, or do you hook them up parallel first?
I am new to this and have wondered about that question not sure what the Correct answer is , but I know what works for me.

I have done both, and it works. I would say measure the voltages first of each group and make sure they are close
or exact, before hooking in parallel. Since they are the same chemistry you should be fine.

In other words do not hook a dead pact to a full pack in parallel or the full will charge the dead one very fast, may melt your wires.

good luck, If you want to wait for an expert to chime in just take one of those packs in series instead of all three and run your bike on that. bring the extra pack in your bag and switch them out, then you can ride today and it is a beautiful day to ride around here.

[RallySTX]

TC, I sent you a pm, and I don't think one string of two batteries will get you very far. Remember, don't overcharge, don't overdraw, and don't forget to grin. Brian L.

[EBJ]

The question is do you hook up the batteries in series first then paralleled, like you did, or do you hook them up parallel first?
I am new to this and have wondered about that question not sure what the Correct answer is , but I know what works for me.

i think the main reason hook up their packs in parallel first is for ease of balancing.
When hooked in parallel, the balance tabs can also be hooked in parallel. So 3 batteries hook up in parallel would alow thoe three batteries to share just one balance tab, allowing you to charge and balance all three of those packs as one really large Ah pack. Example: Hooking up three 5Ah (5,000mah) packs in parallel, and connecting the balance tabs in parallel as well, when plugged into the charger it sees it as a 15Ah pack. (and balances the cells (grouped in threes now) accordingly)

[TopCat]

TC, I sent you a pm, and I don't think one string of two batteries will get you very far. Remember, don't overcharge, don't overdraw, and don't forget to grin. Brian L.

Hi Brian,

I got your PM but it was after I seen this post. In your little pic there areonly 4 batts, im planning on using 6. I'll let you use your little pic setup on your bike first and wait for the results.
Your probably right that 1 string of 6 batts wont get me very far BUT a string of 6 batts will get me a lot further than the 2 iv'e been using for months

As to the lead/charging harness you linked to on EP buddy....

4mm Bullet Conector Parallel Charge Cable.

"This power cable is used for charging up to six batteries with 4mm bullet connectors in parallel.
Made of quality 12 gauge and 14 gauge flexible silicone rubber wires."
http://epbuddy.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=165

Would I also need to get a balance lead/harness as well? and hook both leads/harnesses up to all my 6 batts to charge and balance them?

5S JST-XH Parallel Balance Cable X6.

"This cable is used for parallel charging up to six 5S LiPo batteries with JST-XH balance plugs."
http://epbuddy.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=26_14&products_id=57

Im still waiting to see if any experts will post and let me know if the setup I planned on using will work or blow me up?



Note- All batts in above picture will be fully charged up before hooking up to the leads. This setup is NOT repeat NOT for charging up the batts but for running my bike at 36V for longer range.

Regards
Tom

[mattetjus]

hey TC,

It will work, BUT, as i understand it (anyone feel free to correct me):

in case that the battery cells are not equally strong, e.g. capacity differs slightly between the individual cells, they may go out of balance.

A rule of thumb it is to parallel lithium cells first, then put them in series;

as you have the packs in your figure, (i'll name your cells, from left to right, A1, A2; B1, B2; C1, C2, attached png-picture) , I'll call this
---
CASE A
---
you have the two packs A1 and A2 in series (likewise, B1+B2 and C1+C2) and these will then be paralleled with the B's and C's;
When/if a cell in e.g. A1 goes bad, as in internal short circuit or something, or if it simply runs out of juice before the others; the B1+B2 and C1+C2 strings will have higher potential than A1+A2 and will discharge some of their capacity through A1+A2, meaning: all cells in B1, B2, C1 and C2 may go below their acceptable Low Voltage.

---
CASE B
---
Now, if keeping the cells paralleled (for you, this could be, connecting the balancing cables of A1+B1+C1 together, and likewise A2+B2+C2), you will 'only' endanger 3 cells in the case of a single bad cell.


for example, Cell 1 in pack A1 goes bad:
in your figure, potentially all the cells in B1, B2, C1, C2 could go below their preferred Low Voltage Cut Off -- 4 of 6 packs may go completely dead + pack A1 lost 1 of its cells.
If paralleled first, you'd discharge the first cells in B1 and C1 through the bad cell in A1 -> you now have 3 of 6 packs which have one bad cell each. (a bit better than the risk of 4 completely dead packs)

[TopCat]

hey TC,

It will work, BUT, as i understand it (anyone feel free to correct me):

in case that the battery cells are not equally strong, e.g. capacity differs slightly between the individual cells, they may go out of balance.

A rule of thumb it is to parallel lithium cells first, then put them in series;

as you have the packs in your figure, (i'll name your cells, from left to right, A1, A2; B1, B2; C1, C2, attached png-picture) , I'll call this
---
CASE A
---
you have the two packs A1 and A2 in series (likewise, B1+B2 and C1+C2) and these will then be paralleled with the B's and C's;
When/if a cell in e.g. A1 goes bad, as in internal short circuit or something, or if it simply runs out of juice before the others; the B1+B2 and C1+C2 strings will have higher potential than A1+A2 and will discharge some of their capacity through A1+A2, meaning: all cells in B1, B2, C1 and C2 may go below their acceptable Low Voltage.

---
CASE B
---
Now, if keeping the cells paralleled (for you, this could be, connecting the balancing cables of A1+B1+C1 together, and likewise A2+B2+C2), you will 'only' endanger 3 cells in the case of a single bad cell.


for example, Cell 1 in pack A1 goes bad:
in your figure, potentially all the cells in B1, B2, C1, C2 could go below their preferred Low Voltage Cut Off -- 4 of 6 packs may go completely dead + pack A1 lost 1 of its cells.
If paralleled first, you'd discharge the first cells in B1 and C1 through the bad cell in A1 -> you now have 3 of 6 packs which have one bad cell each. (a bit better than the risk of 4 completely dead packs)

Hi mattetjus, thanks for the input. I'll do another diagram in paint just to make sure I got it right before I go making any leads. Until then i'll just need to do what ianmacnally2 suggested

just take one of those packs in series instead of all three and run your bike on that. bring the extra pack in your bag and switch them out,

. Of course that would also mean taking a screwdriver with me to open the big gray box on my bike and swap out the batts.


Regards
Tom

[TopCat]

I done another diagram, hopefully someone will chip in and tell me if this is right?

6 Turnigy 5000mAh 5S 25C Lipo Packs wired to give 36v for more range on my bike.



Regards
Tom

[docnjoj]

Yep! Much better. Parallel first then series. Those series wires should be maybe at least 10 ga. depending on the amp draw you desire and the speed you want.
otherDoc

[RallySTX]

I don't think the drawing is correct. I hope I'm wrong but the easy way to tell is to check the controller leads with a voltmeter when it's done.
Brian L.

[mattetjus]

yeah, the drawing is a bit hard to decrypt

Hope this helps:
rename B1 -> A3, B2-> B1, C1 -> B2, C2 -> B3: A1-3 and B1-3
Connect First three packs in parallel (incl. balance cables), connect last three packs in parallel and then do the two paralleled blocks in series (see fig.)

[docnjoj]

Oops! On closer inspection it looks like the 2 sets of 3 are also in parallel. Perhaps make it simple with 3 packs side by side in parallel x 2 and then series wire the 2 sets to get the 44 volts. For parallel all the + leads and all the - leads should be together. Then put the 2 sets of 3 in series.
otherDoc.

[RallySTX]

TC, if you haven't blown yourself up yet! I will redo my little drawing for you, so you can see what I was driveing at. I need to wait til tomorrow to do it, cause my desktop pc died Thursday and that took all my files down with it. This laptop has a touchy mousepad. No good at all for design work. And the mouse for the pc was a ps2, and this laptop is usb. basically just use your original design, but don't forget the polarity of the strings. All you need though is to visualise one more vertical pair of batteries wired up like the second vertical string and you have the design I am on about.




Brian L.

[RallySTX]

Sorry about the crude drawing but there is what I meant. I added it to my last post.
Brian L.

[TopCat]

Hi Brian,

Looks like I have 2 different options of wiring up my lipos to get a 36v longer range battery.

Mattetjus has come up with this version....



And you have come up with this version...



are both options different - its 5.00am and im still half asleep is there one option better than the other?

No fear Brian, I haven't blown myself or anything else up yet. I'll need to send of for more connectors before I start making up any leads. I just want to get this setup right before I make anything up. That way I will hopefully have it right first time and not have to redo it over and over again until it is right.

Regards
Tom

[RallySTX]

Actually TC we both drew the same thing, they just look different. The circuit is the same. He just layed all the bbatteries in a line, and I stacked them to conform to the visual idea of rows. His drawing presumes that you know that the connections are color coded and do not hook up to the other horizontal line. Proper design rules state that each connection should be represented by a round ball at the point of contact. Thus wires crossing each other without that ball are presumed to simply be passing over each other. That's why I drew mine as a layout of a simple pack, with no crossed wires, because I have trouble getting paint to cooperate, and most folks don't care about electrical drafting, they just want it to work! So there you have it, two guys that say the same thing. This is how the harness I showed you is set up, and how I plan to build the big one for my Spoiler. Happy day to ya, I'm going to bed now!
Brian L.

[RallySTX]

Two more ways to look at the same circuit.



and finally



Brian L.

[TopCat]

Have I buggered up 2 of my lipos?

Iv'e been riding around with 6 batts in my box but only 2 are hooked up at any one time. When they run out I swap them out for another 2. Lastnight I had 2 batts in my box while I was charging the others. The 2 batts in my box were hooked up to my Turnigy watt meter and I forgot about them, this morning I went to try charging them up but no joy? Any type of charge I try comes up with LOW VOLTAGE on my ICharger 1010B+. Have I buggered up 2 of my batts by leaving them hooked up all night? .... or is there any way to rescue them? There new batts and have only been charged up 3 times.

Regards
Tom

[AussieJester]

Have I buggered up 2 of my lipos?

We don't know have you?

I certainly hope after 3 pages of instruction on how to connect and charge your LiPOs
you didn't get it wrong ..... my initial post might have been better advice after all :-S

KiM

[TopCat]

Ha ha Kim, I pressed the wrong button --- Submit instead of Preview once i'd done the post header

Regards
Tom

[AussieJester]

Ha ha Kim, I pressed the wrong button --- Submit instead of Preview once i'd done the post header

Regards
Tom

So whats the story ToPCaT whats up with the LiPO? Over charge them over discharge them make fire come from them? LoL

KiM

[TopCat]

So whats the story ToPCaT whats up with the LiPO? Over charge them over discharge them make fire come from them? LoL
KiM

Iv'e probably over discharge them by leaving them hooked up to my watt meter all night

Regards
Tom