Xtreme-scooters' XB-310Li

[The Stig]

I'm pretty sure that's a bafang motor. So it can take up to 30a. How many fets does your controlhave? When you get a chance open up the controller to see what the capacitors are rated at. Then you will knkw for sure if it can handle 48v. While your at it also take pix of the shunt. There is a shunt mod described earlier in this thread. That's what will increase your current limit and thus torque. But I think 48v will probably make it feel fast enough.

If you don't have time to open it up you could ask the ebay listing if the controller comes with different rateded caps.

I use a quality chain lock. Far more secure than any ulock. I like tha abus granit citychain 1060. Its a bit pricy in th usa but its worth it because its the fastest and easiest to use of any lock and also quite light.

[eugenem]

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it.

If I were to replace the controller with a new one that comes with higher caps and can work with a new 48v battery, can you recommend a controller that would work?

I've read good things about kelly controllers. They also have a whole line of mini controllers that might fit the space the stock controller occupies. Would any of these work?

http://kellycontroller.com/PWM-Motor-Controller.php

[eugenem]

Any advice when it comes to the parts needed for the upgrade? What kind of a controller would work (number of mosfets, amp caps, anything else I have not considered yet? I noticed that some of the controllers are for motors with hall sensors and others are for those without. How do I know which one I need?)? Do you think there's a way to fit a new battery in the same case? What else would I need to complete the upgrade? New throttle? Cables?

Any advice would be highly appreciated. I love the bike but it needs a bit more speed and as much additional torque as I can get from it.

[The Stig]

Its likely that you could just buy the 48V frog case battery from bmsbattery.com and it would fit and work. You will get a mounting plate with it anyway.

It is also possible that you won't need to upgrade the controller. If you do I recommend going with a lyen 6fet if your gonna get the bmsbattery.com battery. A cheaper option is ecrazyman 9fet but I don't think it will fit under the battery. Have you tried opening the case under the battery and openning the controller to see what its like? take pix! See what voltage the ultra caps have on them.

Whoever you get a controller from I recommend getting a throttle from as well so you don't have to do custom wiring, and maybe for compatability...

[eugenem]

I have a little update about the bike in case anyone is interested. I have ordered a new controller from lyen. It's a 6x4110 Mini Monster Programmable Controller LYEN Edition. It's close in size to the original controller so hopefully it will fit in the same housing.

I have also been talking to Ping about a battery and he gave me some disturbing info. According to him the little frog case is too small for a 36v 10Ah LiFePO4 even without a bms. That's strange considering that this is supposed to be the stock battery. According to him when it comes to 48v LiFePO4 he can't even fit a 5Ah battery in that case.

What makes this even stranger is that these guys http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/41848 ... V10Ah.html claim to offer a 48v 6.6Ah LiFePO4's in that same case.

Who's right? Who's wrong in all of this? How do I make sure that I was not lied to about the battery chemistry/capacity? Hoe can I test the actual capacity of the battery?

Finally I was looking to upgrade to this battery after putting in the new controller. It's not a LiFePO4 but that's fine; however it is rated at 10A continuous discharge and that is simply not enough to make a difference.

Any ideas? Advice?

[The Stig]

Yeah I wouldn't expect LiFePO4 to fit in the little frog case. And I would never expect any realistic information on alibaba. Its worth checking who the supplier is and seeing if they have any rep.

Whats the current limit of your current controller? I think that 48V battery has 20A max discharge so you could just set the current limit to 20A and see what happens or 15A. You'll have higher phase current with this new controller which means more off the line torque.

[eugenem]

If you take a look at the description it says LIFEPO4 http://www.high5scooters.com/productinfo/ew475.htm

This is what I was told when I purchased the bike, so it's not just the alibaba supplier. I would take anything they say with a grain of salt anyway, however it seems that EWheels may be misrepresenting the battery chemistry as well. Any suggestions on how to check what kind of a battery I have as well as the actual capacity before I confront them?

As far as the 48v batteries, I was considering the 48v 8Ah Li-Ion battery from bmsbattery (http://www.bmsbattery.com/48v/339-36v-l ... -pack.html). However according to the site it is rated at 10A continuous discharge and I spoke with lyen when ordering the new controller and he recommended against getting this battery because of this.

I would really prefer to preserve the current look of the bike but I guess I may want to consider a rack mounted battery. Are you still using the same battery/battery case on your xb-310li?

My current controllers limit is 14A. I wonder what my current batteries are rated at and if when I upgrade to the new controller with a higher cap the torque will increase even before upgrading to the 48v.

[The Stig]

You should be able to estimate the discharge curve of your battery. If it looks like this http://www.yesa.com.hk/uppic/200812/2008121523333919914.jpg its Lifepo4. If it doesn't Its probably something else.

By just changing controller you'll have more torque off the line if you turn up phase current even keeping the battery current limit the same. I hope you got your lyen controller with the optional plug to connect it to the computer!!

I would open the battery and the controller carefully and take pics so we can be sure what it is!

[eugenem]

I have a little update in case anybody's interested.

First of all it looks like the motor is a 250W bafang, contrary to what ewheels advertises it as (they say it's a 300W motor). That's not a huge issue as it seems to be capable of handling a lot more that this anyway.

The battery is most definitely not a LIFEPO4. It seems like a 36v 10Ah NiCoMn. It's fine for what it is, but the manufacturer seems to misrepresent this aspect and their support proved to be quite useless. No posts on their forums get answered and no emails replied to. Oh well...

If I knew what I know now I would put together a bike for myself instead of getting something ready-made.

I have upgraded to a programmable mini monster controller from lyen. This guy is awesome. The amount of help and advice I got from him is invaluable and I would definitely recommend him to anyone looking for an upgrade. As of right now I am running the motor at 36v with a 25A controller cap. The amount of torque I am getting now is great compared to the stock controller. The motor doesn't seem to even get warm. Guess it's a good sign.

Unfortunately I lost the pedal assist functionality as the controller doesn't seem to support it and I can't use the stock battery indicator (there are no wires for it so I assume it is not supported). I think I'll need to get a cycle analyst. How complicated is the install process? I have a CA plug coming from the controller. Is it a simple plug-n-play process or is something else needed to get it working?

The wiring from the stock components turned out to be extremely bad with most connectors barely holding on. Some just fell off as soon as I barely touched them. I had to redo most of it.

I am thinking of getting a 48v battery to get a bit more speed out of the motor. Do you think it can take this much power? What if I limit the current to 20A (I assume it's possible by connecting it to a computer). It seems to be handling 36vx25A=900W pretty well. With 48vx20A it would raise the power to 960W. Now sure if I should just get a new motor, try to push this one to the limit or just be content with the current setup

[The Stig]

If you want a higher top speed 48V would help. I dont think youll get more amps out of the 48V battery so you'll probably have lower torque. As I would recommend a current limit of lower than 20A unless you can program the controller to only draw 20A for a small period of time. 10A is the Max Contrinuous of the 48V battery I believe. Is your controller set to 120% throttle for a little extra top speed?

For the most power I would see if cell man can fit and A123 battery into a little frog case. But then you might want to change your motor.

[eugenem]

Thank you for the advise! After much consideration I have decided that this bike is not for me. So I have decided to leave it to my wife and I have started building one from scratch for myself.

I just got a new motor in the mail today. It's a crystalyte hs3540 sensor-less rear DD hub with a crystalyte 48v45a sensor-less controller to match. I also ordered a battery from cell_man.

In the mean time I am looking for a bike I can convert. I am hoping to find a folding bike but I'm open to other ideas as well

[The Stig]

What battery did you order from cellman?

Although having a folding bike is awesome, the variety of full suspension folding bikes is really limited. But you could go for a hard tail since you have a heavy rear DD hub. If you don't go for folding you could go for the best suspension and handling that come with a downhil frame.

[1CLIP]

The Stig,

How is your Xtreme-scooters' XB-310Li doing from you first post until now?
Is it holding up OK?
I'm thinking of getting one online from my ride to work.
How do you think it will do on trails or off road? Is it a good Mt bike?
My work is at the bottom of a big hill. I'm hoping this e-bike can handle it.

What do you think?

[eugenem]

I got a 16S 4P pack. It's fairly small but I think it'll be enough for my needs for now.

I was mainly looking for a pack that had a C rating that could handle the rest of the setup.

1Clip, I know the question wasn't addressed to me but ew-475 seems to be built on the same frame and it's not really a mt bike. It can handle a rough pavement but I would not count on it for anything extreme.

Also ew-475 comes with a 36v battery instead of a 24v that comes with xb-310li and I had to upgrade the controller to get the performance I needed for every day biking. I think you'll end spending money on a 36v battery and possibly a controller.

Other than that they seem to be good bikes, or at least as good as you can get from a bime with components this cheap

I honestly regret not building something with a good kit to begin with and have started working on a second ebike a month or so after the purchase. This one's going to my wife

[1CLIP]

eugenem,

What made the ew-475 not for you?
Was it the speed or the power was not what you were hoping for?
In your posts you seemed disappointed from the start.
The 36v battery does seem more appealing over the 24V for power.
But I could use that rear rack that comes on the XB-310Li.
Of course that rear rack is probably cheaper then upgrading to 36V batt. LOL...
I'm just on a tight budget and have know ideal how to do any of the modding and upgrading they talk about in this post.

[eugenem]

A rack is cheap and you'll spend a lot more upgrading the battery, which you will do once you see how little you can get out of a 24v pack. I wish they included a better controller which makes the bike sooo much better, but that's nothing a new controller from lyen can't fix. Awesome seller to deal with btw and his mini monster fits into the existing case although it's a tight fit. If you'd like I can give you the correct phase/hall wire combo since this is what took the most time for me. 

It's still a fun bike but you're paying a lot of money for a cheap chinese bike with cheap components. My pedals fell apart the very first day, a fuse burned out even before that so I ended up fixing it right away. Once you get started you'll see it's not that complicated. Performance-wise... ehhh it's not much especially with a stock controller. With the mini monster you'll feel some power though. You say you're on a budget... These are not cheap bikes. You may be better off getting a 150$ kit from cellman and a bike from walmart. It'll end up cheaper and you'll have a custom bike with every component selected by you.

[robbyt609]

I just got my XB 310 Li in the other day. So far I am not too impressed with the bike.

The first problem came when I discovered that the charger I received was not correct. I still haven't heard anything back from the support ticket I submitted.

Next thing I noticed was that the kick stand that I got was not the dual sided stand, but the crappy one that only allows it to lean on the side.-But this is just an annoyance, it is no big deal.

While riding the bike I could hear a slight grinding noise from the motor, I assume this is due to strain.

Finally, I can't figure out how to get the damn battery off the bike. It slid on almost effortlessly but I can't seem to figure out how to get it off. I assume there is a locking mechanism I am not noticing?

Any advice would be great.

-Rob

[eugenem]

As fas as I remember the xb-310li is a 24v setup. There's not much to be impressed by at this voltage. You'll need to upgrade to 36v to get more speee and put in a higher amp controller to increase the torque to acceptable levels.

As for the battery, the ignition key switch has 3 possible positions. On, off and if you push in the key into the lock and turn it one more time you'll be able to take off the battery.

[The Stig]

Hi Everyone,

This could work for anyone who has this type of folding bike frame hinge:
I recently gave this bike a very simple and very good update. It's improved the handling and stability of the bike significantly. This cheap type of folding hinge isn't designed to close very tightly. When I reached to the underside of the frame, and put my hand on the gap between the two hinging plates... I could feel the gap opening and closing as I rode over bumps. This floppy hinge in the middle of my frame made my bike feel wobbly and unstable.
What I did was sandwich a piece of 3/32" thick rubber gasket. It was tough to close, I had to use a clamp... so I would recommend a 2mm thick gasket, I would also recommend a harder material than rubber because maximum rigidity is optimal... maybe a really soft metal would work. But once I got the hinge closed, the frame became rigid! It was like having a new bike. Here are some pictures, Cheers!

[Racer_X]

I have a folder, not an Xtreme but still chinese. This information is very helpfull, thanks for sharing.

[The Stig]

Yeah I just added that rubber is probably not the best material but its all i had. Harder would be better. Maybe some sort of semi-hard plastic or a very soft metal(brass/copper I think would be too hard).

[synthrider]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the killer tips : ) I've had a XB-310Li for a little over a year. Been riding it on stock battery and stock controller. Finally decided to upgrade. Getting the 36volt Li-Ion. I'm in touch with Annie Lei who's trying to direct me to the BMSBattery website, and I'm trying to get her to take my order via skype : ) Also sent an email to Keyvan/ecrazyman to see if he'll sell me a controller. I'm going to try to run the 36volt on the stock controller for a while - see how it goes etc, and hopefully have upgraded controller as a spare/backup.

I already burnt out one controller, just after the puny 90 day warranty expired

For some reason I decided to run the throttle and pedal assist modes at the same time. The bike didn't like it : )

Other than that, man I kind of dig this bike... even on the stock parts. I've gone through crazy downpours without a hitch (must've lucked out, that controller casing is asking for trouble), and even got swiped by a car once (it must've been going 30, I was going 18 or something). NO DAMAGE to the bike. Miraculous. The motor didn't want to run right after the accident, but then started up fine that same evening (weird). I was OK btw - just scrapes mostly. I think the weight of the bike helped in absorbing a lot of the energy.

(Dumb city with no bike lanes.)

Anyhows, IMHO this bike is a weird mix of cheapness and quality, that somehow works good, pretty much : )

I have 3 Arkel bags on it (4 counting the tool bag), and it's completely replaced my car. I'll shoot a pic sometime : )

Ride safe, enjoy, and I'll let you guys know about my upgrades.

[The Stig]

Sounds good!

Be sure to run good strong blinky lights 24/7 so you don't get hit by any more cars!!

Its a cheapy ebike but definitely has some carrying advantages with its solid rack and rated rider weight of 300lbs.

I recomend a 6fet controller, I like lyens because its programmable and has good fets but ecrazyman has them for cheaper i believe.

So what city do you ride in?

[synthrider]

Stig,

About the controller, didn't you get your controller from ecrazyman/keywin? I've been trying to go that route because you reported success with it... eugenem posted above about a controller from lyen... he liked it a lot, except that he lost the pedal assist function (entire function was not supported, I guess). I would really like to keep the pedal assist. I use that all the time and only use the throttle as a backup, if I'm dead tired, injured, cold/wet/miserable etc...

[synthrider]

(And that's a good idea about the lights... I upgraded my light right after the accident, and yeah, started using it even if it's not dark... that street was a deathtrap of sorts (two car lanes, no bike lane, no shoulder, just a ditch), and drivers here don't understand how to deal with anything that isn't a car... It's a town in Florida (US), not far from Tampa.)

Are you still riding your xb-310li? Or has it been eclipsed by the e-moto? Does the e-moto fold smaller by comparison? One thing that sucks about the 310 is that it won't fit in every car trunk...(maybe half fit, with door open...) And just getting it off the ground and into the trunk kind of sucks too : ) But yah, it's definitely got some things going for it. If it wasn't as heavy and sturdy as it is, neither the bike nor its rider would've fared well during the accident. And the cargo rack / weight capacity rocks.