(iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

[mr.electric]

I went the Highpoweredcycles route. It is a very similar hub motor to your Izip zuma. I think you got a great value and I enjoyed reading the review. I would guess your motor is putting out more than 500 watts from what you describe. It is 36v at 20 amps right? that would be 720 watts. You may consider going to 48v as it will make the bike 30% faster which is what it takes to ride with traffic not on the edge. Also a bigger front sprocket can help you add more top end speed to keep your lane. I run at 48v limited to 21 amps so about 1000 watts - I believe 750 is the legal limit.
I don't think too many cops will be hitting you with the speed gun and anyways it is hard to know it is an electric anyways.
Of course your bike is completely within the letter of the law and reliable. It may be more of a project than you want to undertake to upgrade.
I also have an ebikekit direct drive ebike that I enjoy too also running about 1000 watts. It accelerates more slowly and has less torque but it is very smooth and enjoyable to ride.
I am building a 3rd bike now a bmc geared motor on a rusty old 20" folding bike. My beater bike.
good 48 volt lithium packs and controllers are sold here:
http://www.ebikessf.com/

[tuxman]

In my opinion all of these ebikes are rip offs. "I converted using a golden motor kit and ping battery I spent a total of 1375 on it." Look at the specs. You could build one with better specs for less price. You guys should really build your own ebike that way if something breaks you know how to fix it. Would you buy a car with no place to take it for repairs?

ask anyone here that have been ebiking for years they will tell you all ebikes break down at some point. I hope those ebikes come with a warranty or return policy.

Actually, I paid LESS money $1,325 complete. Don't get too wrapped up in the manufacture suggested motor specs, DD vs GD are not apples vs apples. Factor in a brand new complete bicycle, a 1 year warranty and a nation wide dealer network = better bang for the buck. The currietech.com website list 12 dealers that I can go to for warranty repairs or parts in Georgia alone. Golden Motor list ZERO. Hardly a rip off.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27079#p391124
I have an odd sound coming from my hub motor. I have a golden motor kit and when I spin the front hub motor it sounds like there are rocks moving around inside. It's not the spokes. I checked them and they seem tight. The sound just started happening. Is it to keep riding? What could it be? I only rode it twice and it started making this noise.

Golden Motor: You can fix it your self, or mail it back to china. I can take mine to my local dealership.

BTW, if I get a flat, I know how to fix it. This is not my first ebike.

[mobybike]

In my opinion all of these ebikes are rip offs. Look at the specs. You could build one with better specs for less price. You guys should really build your own ebike that way if something breaks you know how to fix it. Would you buy a car with no place to take it for repairs?

ask anyone here that have been ebiking for years they will tell you all ebikes break down at some point. I hope those ebikes come with a warranty or return policy.

I had a hard time finding an ebike that wasn't broken from the start... With Curry/iZip they at least can send parts. I've gone the diy route on everything bicycle related at one point or another, I do have an e-bike kit too. I started with BionX 24V 250w motor, which was a little underwhelming.

Which bike is likely to be more re sell-able? Name brand that everyone has an idea what it is, or my own concoction in all its raw beauty with who knows what bolted and strapped who knows where? I personally like cleaner lines and things that look like they belong, and I'm not a super genius artistically gifted product designer that can pull that off myself, like some of you folks here.

That bring me to my next observance.
I have noticed that some e-bike companies and kit producers, don't know what they are even selling enough to retranslated the ad copy from Chinese to English. And that is bothersome. It bugs me when a company like Pedego can't even put a seat on right. Other companies like Prodeco who tout their Free Body Hub (its always been and will always be a freehub). Kit MFG's like E-Bike Kit who wants to sell you a 28" wheel kit (you won't find a production 28" bicycle rim in America, it's 700c). Others with extremely exorbitant prices. Or my favorite... "it only cost 2 cents to charge the battery".

The fact remains that while this infant industry is entering the growth phase, you are seeing the Law catching on and prosecutions will soon follow. We live in a cycling "friendly" town that the police are starting to ticketi those who ride on sidewalks, ride against traffic, don't stop at signs and lights, and are cracking down on e-bikes. "If it has a motor, it's a motor vehicle".
http://www.registerguard.com/web/newslocalnews/26354571-41/mcclain-bicycle-license-electric-court.html.csp

Maybe I have a guilty conscience but I wanted to keep it legal, and I wanted support form a company that had been around and proven themselves to be in this for the long haul, not Mr. Quick Cash... still working out the bugs. who may or may not be here tomorrow. I didn't want another unsupported electronic device. I wanted an "Apple iBike" but they don't make one.

The weird thing is, that even a 24V 250W geared motor iZip Via Rapido felt better to me than my E-Bike Kit 36V 500W Direct Drive. I wasn't even considering another 24V anything after my BionX but either my E-Bike Kit has something wrong, or these latest geared motors are just that much better. The 48V Pedego I rode, was an older and used DirectDrive model, so it is also possible that it was just tired, and that is why it's performance was less than I expected for 48V. Don't get me wrong the Pedego is a nice and fun bike too, but the "balloon tire package" is the deal setter for me, and that boosts the price and additional $180. I actually found a coupon for my Zuma and it lowered the price by about the same amount, making the total difference $500 less.

[tuxman]

My first ebike was a 24v pedelelectric brushed chain drive 7-speed on 14ah SLA. That SOB will pull 100lbs of groceries in my trailer uphill in first gear and cruise at 20+mph in 7th gear level ground. Now on my 2nd geared ebike, I may be bias towards direct drive hubs. You can call me a gear head from now on.

[mobybike]

I went the Highpoweredcycles route. ...
I also have an ebikekit direct drive ebike that I enjoy too also running about 1000 watts. It accelerates more slowly and has less torque but it is very smooth and enjoyable to ride.
I am building a 3rd bike now a bmc geared motor on a rusty old 20" folding bike. My beater bike.
good 48 volt lithium packs and controllers are sold here:
http://www.ebikessf.com/

Thanks for the link and advice! When I was building computers, I had to have at least one reliable one, so I could search the Internet for parts or downloads, or bios settings and so on. The Zuma seems to be that for a reliable e-bike, and now I think I will play with the other one more to see what happens. I really like the E-BikeKit company and all the parts and options they offer, and maybe all I really need is another $600-$800 48V battery... It's just the way their site reads concerning the geared motors they sell and the fact that they no longer carry Lithium batteries, that really consern me because I don't know if they are really interested in keeping up with what is going on in the rest of the industry, and it makes me wonder how long they will be around. (I am banking on the need for future replacements)

I like the idea of 24V at 20 MPH level ground -and uphill- packing me and a 100 pound trailer... that would be enough for me I think
It's not my green streak that wants to be able to charge via Solar panels, but it would be a good backup for emergency or sustained transportation -off grid- when the power goes out or if while boon docking in Arizona. 24V solar panels and charge controllers are plentiful, reasonable priced, and easier to find in a wide variety of options for direct 24V charging. You can even rig up a $50 (on sale) solar 24V trickle charge option from harbor freight. http://www.harborfreight.com/18-volt-to-24-volt-solar-charger-95000.html Parallel a few of those and you have enough to replace a wall plug in charger, using a charge controller like this... http://www.altestore.com/store/Charge-C ... ler/p7878/ Charge controllers for 36V or 48V are not easy to find or cheap.

I don't know what made me think of that, sorry for going off topic.

[RVD]

Congrats on your bike. I'm glad you enjoy it. Building your own is fun but it looks like you got a decent deal with yours and you're happy so that's most important.

This video is pretty cool. It's actually taken on the same path that I took to work for 2 years...except I rode a regular bike. It's beautiful down here.

My new route turns just before going to the Marina Del Rey section which is where much of this video takes place. I no longer work in Santa Monica which is where all of the parking structures and people group shots were taken.

Anyway, have fun out there...

[tuxman]

If anyone is interested in a ready made ebike, the 2nd batch of the Prodeco Phantom X has a ship date of July 31st 2011 over at Bikemania.biz

Assembled in the USA, 2 year warranty, 500w DD rear hub, 12ah LiFePo4 36v for $1,099 shipped; it was on the top of my list. But not available back in May so I picked up the Zuma instead.

[tuxman]

Mine had the leather grips installed backwards. If you reverse them so the bumpy knob is out instead of in, they feel even better!

Did this mod a few weeks ago too. Flipped the hand grips so they are now reversed. This must be how the engineer designed it in the first place, much more comfortable.

Thanks for the tip!

[rmeier]

I recently purchased an I-ZIP Zuma from eco-wheelz. This purchase was based mostly on "tuxmans" recommendations. Thank you for the
detailed information and excellent pictures. The bike is a real hoot to ride. I live in a valley area where everyplace over a mile away is up a
serious hill. I'm 62, 6'3" & 260lbs. Mostly retired now, I wanted a comfy bike for exersize and errand running.
On my old Shwinn Sidewinder my legs got so sore I wobbled walking from the garage back to the house. Now going up those hills is done in 4th / 5th
gear with the same effort as the granny gear range of the Schwinn. The breeze at these higher speeds make summer pedaling so much more pleasent too.
(Note... adding 8-10 teeth on the front sprocket would be better). About the only time I use the throttle mode is at startup when crossing large controlled
intersections. Once moving it's back to PAS mode. Even after about 12-15 miles the battery is still indicating half on the LED. The brakes, while strong,
are not smooth in their stopping effort, giving a pulsing braking force as if the discs had rough spots. I thought I broke them in gradually over the first
20 miles or so. Any thoughts on this. I'll give it another 50 miles of normal use before I start complaining to Currie.
Overall I'm happy with the machine, to which I added the quite usefull I-ZIP rear saddle bags. ( holds about a full bag of groceries )
Again thanks to all those who contributed to this discussion.

[tuxman]

Glad you like it. So far I've put over 500 miles on mine and the brakes have settled down. The brakes are still noisy, but will stop on a dime even when wet. Chain has popped off a few times. Other than that it's a great bike and is real transportation.

A side note is the battery rack and motor blends in with the bike. I like having the battery and motor some what concealed. Have yet to be stopped by government agents!

[tuxman]

Brakes update. Almost perfect.

All comes down to proper installation. Well, lets say re-installation. With a slight mod. They now float.

1) Release the brake cable from the caliper and un-screw caliper from the frame, remove it from the rotor.
2) Set the hand lever cable slack adjuster screw to the middle of its range. Do the same for the one on the caliper.
3) Expose as much of the brake pad as possible by adjusting the brake pad adjuster screw on the back side of the caliper. Making sure the pad has just enough seat inside the caliper; you don't want to hit the brakes and the disk pad not have any contact with the caliper lip.
4) Install back onto rotor, but don't tighten the bolts all the way. Allow the caliper to be loose enough to float left to right but tight enough not to float up and down.
5) Set the brake cable on the caliper while the pads are fully engaged on the rotor. After which you use the hand lever cable slack adjuster to fine tune for the best pull.

Did you need a disclaimer? Seriously, most of the projects on ES are "at your own risk". Didn't think I had to go there but...

This modification is at your own risk. Don't try this at home unless you understand what you are doing. It is deemed NOT SAFE. Injury or death to you or others may occur. Better yet, do not attempt this modification. I will take no responsibility for your actions and do not suggest you under any circumstance try this.

[mobybike]

Well after a few more miles, I got a bit bothered by the annoying shake this bike has. I'm not sure I could recommend this to anyone at this point, but maybe the men's frame is more stable. This picture is actually a click away from the video I took of the uncontrollable shake that occurs when you take your hands off the bars. I tried everything I could think of to stop this from happening, and while the smaller tires on this in the video didn't actually stop the shake, they did make re-gaining control easier because they are lighter.

[Racer_X]

sometimes a bike shakes when the spokes are loose have you checked the spokes lately?
Did it shake from the moment you bought the bike?

[mobybike]

sometimes a bike shakes when the spokes are loose have you checked the spokes lately?
Did it shake from the moment you bought the bike?

Thanks Racer_X,
I did check the spokes, and tensioned and trued these wheels. Loose spokes are also suspect of consideration with squealing brakes which this bike also had. I ended up buying Avid Mechanical brakes for it because they can align better than the stock Tektro Novella.

Yes the bike has done this from day 1. I've tried different tires at different pressure, different forks, shifting rider weight for and aft, up and down with different seats and positions and bars, and even tried an Xtracycle. The Xtracycle experiment was my greatest hope because the battery weight would then be placed between the 2 axles of the bike. It did help a small degree and the shake only started at speeds above 12mph instead of 7 or 8mph. Currie told me the warranty would be void with a cobbled bike like that, and the bike was a total noodle with the Xtracycle bolted on there anyway.

I think the frame material is extremely soft and can't handle the weight of the battery. With the battery removed, the bike doesn't shake.
The customer should not have to be the post engineer to correct major design flaws such as this.

[Hillhater]

4) Install back onto rotor, but don't tighten the bolts all the way. Allow the caliper to be loose enough to float left to right but tight enough not to float up and down..

..are you saying leave the caliper fixing screws loose ! ??
What is preventing them backing off and falling out..leaving you brake-less !!
By leaving those bolts loose, you weaken the caliper mounting by 75% !
does not sound like good advice or a sensible way to prevent brake noise.
If you really need a "floating" caliper, at least use shoulder bolts that can be tightened properly.

[mobybike]

4) Install back onto rotor, but don't tighten the bolts all the way. Allow the caliper to be loose enough to float left to right but tight enough not to float up and down..

..are you saying leave the caliper fixing screws loose ! ??
What is preventing them backing off and falling out..leaving you brake-less !!
By leaving those bolts loose, you weaken the caliper mounting by 75% !
does not sound like good advice or a sensible way to prevent brake noise.
If you really need a "floating" caliper, at least use shoulder bolts that can be tightened properly.

I would agree, don't leave the bolts loose please!
The factors that I think play the biggest part in the brake squeal this bike has are;
1. Soft frame and fork material allowing for resonance to be magnified.
2. Resonance from poorly aligned mount.
3. Factory contaminated pads and/or rotor.

The mounts should be machined parallel and the paint removed, using a professional technique and tool such as the Park Tool DT-1, but since this is hard to find in our local shops, I opted for the Avid BB5 Tri-Align brakes (and rotors) which compensate nicely for the poorly aligned and soft Zuma disc brake mounts. I did remove the paint from the mount surface prior to mounting the caliper adapters to eliminate any possibility of the paint softening from rotor heat, causing a soft surface which allows vibration to magnify. (so the "experts" seem to think)

Pulsing brakes are caused by either oil on the rotor, or a poorly stamped rotor with thick and thin areas of the rotor, which is the actual problem with the disc brake rotors I have had this problem with on Currie iZip bikes. You need a new rotor if your new bike is pulsing during braking and you have cleaned the rotor thoroughly with common isopropyl alcohol and the problem still exists. Remember to use rubber or plastic or nitrile gloves when handling brake rotors so your finger oil doesn't deposit on the rotor.

Other suspects are loose spokes and the Zuma spokes do loosen after a few rides so they too should be tensioned or at least checked for proper tension.

[tuxman]

Thank you for your concern however I understand the risk and will continue using them as stated.

The screws are not loose. They are secure with lock tight and tested with over a hundred miles without any movement. They are setup no different than shoulder bolts. What I am saying is they are now tightened properly to allow the caliper to float. Perhaps I will replace them with actual shoulder bolts. I am constantly checking these bolts for movement for my safety.

I love my new setup. Not going back. (Disclaimer added to post.)

[tuxman]

Mobybike,

Could be the headset needs to be replaced.

When you installed the second fork, did you use a new headset or was it from the same Zuma?

BTW, I also had to tighten all the bolts on my forks and headset. They had to much play.

[mobybike]

Mobybike,

Could be the headset needs to be replaced.

When you installed the second fork, did you use a new headset or was it from the same Zuma?

BTW, I also had to tighten all the bolts on my forks and headset. They had to much play.

A good thought Tuxman,
I didn't mention it, but I did need to use different spacers to adjust for fork steerer tube lengths. The headset is in good condition, seated properly, and I also inspected them carefully. The fork crown race is also in good condition and the headset was adjusted and secured properly.

This shake goes away with the battery removed, which pretty much seems to indicate the little bit of extra weight here from the battery causes this problem in this case on this frame. Your Zuma doesn't have this problem evidently, so the drop frame I have must be significantly weaker than the standard frame. The other reason I think this is because the Xtracycle really felt terrible on this Zuma, but it feels great and actually improved the already great ride on the hi-ten steel frame I ended up putting it on. (same bike my e-bike kit is on a 700c Diamondback Kalimar)

I might try kingfish's foam insulation idea in the tubes (like he used on his "going to California" project) to see if it stiffens up the frame next...

[georgefromvt]

Well after a few more miles, I got a bit bothered by the annoying shake this bike has. I'm not sure I could recommend this to anyone at this point, but maybe the men's frame is more stable. This picture is actually a click away from the video I took of the uncontrollable shake that occurs when you take your hands off the bars. I tried everything I could think of to stop this from happening, and while the smaller tires on this in the video didn't actually stop the shake, they did make re-gaining control easier because they are lighter.

Actually your problem is already mentioned in a few blogs. The 2010 female model was found to be too flimsy for heavier (male) riders, the 2011 was built sturdier with more welding spots. The men's style is sturdier and less likely to shake.

[mobybike]

Actually your problem is already mentioned in a few blogs. The 2010 female model was found to be too flimsy for heavier (male) riders, the 2011 was built sturdier with more welding spots. The men's style is sturdier and less likely to shake.

Thanks Georgefromvt,
Yes this is correct. I was told that the 2011 frame was sturdier, I knew about the 2010 problem, but as you can see, this 2011 frame still shakes. Does anyone who owns a mens frame on this forum have this problem?

[georgefromvt]

I can't get sweaty so I don't pedal on the way to work, but can on the way home. Arrived home today with the battery meter showing green! No mistake, it was measuring 39.4v after 5.3 miles. I calculated that I've used about 4ah out of 12ah. Using a 2ah charger, it took 2 hours to recharge to full.

This time I pedaled at take off so I could quickly get up to speed, and then again lightly on a few of the hills. Ha! I don't need a horn, I just mash the front brake and the noise is more than loud enough. Other than my complaint about the front brake, this bike is real transportation.

Even more gear this trip, carrying my laptop along with my charger, rain gear, work clothes, my new pressing of Fleetwood Mac Rumors 2x45rpm LP, and bottle of Jim Beam that I picked up at the store along the way.

Here I am, puffing on a cigar, sipping on some whiskey, listening to Fleetwood Mac as I update you about my Zuma. Cheers!

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You might want to ask Tuxman if his Men's style bike shakes. I have an RMARTIN but plan on purchasing a second bike next summer and the IZIP Zuma is top of the list. Does the bike shake at low speeds too, also if you don't mind me asking? How heavy are you? I'm 210, almost the limit for most bikes. Sorry your bike shakes but step thru design "female" bikes are inherently less rigid compared to the male version. I'm lucky, my RMARTIN doesn't shake but I seldom ride over 20 MPH, also the bike is very heavy. While the weight adds strength, it's a hassle carrying up/ down stairs. I live on a second floor apartment and carry it up/ down every evening on my rides.

[mobybike]

You might want to ask Tuxman if his Men's style bike shakes. I have an RMARTIN but plan on purchasing a second bike next summer and the IZIP Zuma is top of the list. Does the bike shake at low speeds too, also if you don't mind me asking? How heavy are you? I'm 210, almost the limit for most bikes. Sorry your bike shakes but step thru design "female" bikes are inherently less rigid compared to the male version. I'm lucky, my RMARTIN doesn't shake but I seldom ride over 20 MPH, also the bike is very heavy. While the weight adds strength, it's a hassle carrying up/ down stairs. I live on a second floor apartment and carry it up/ down every evening on my rides.

I was hoping to get Tuxman to tell us if his bike shakes, this is his thread after all.

This bike starts to shake at about 7-8mph
I am 220 LBS
I didn't buy the bike for myself, we got it for my wife and daughter who are both well within the weight limits soaking wet and carrying bricks on their heads.
They both have problems with this bike and my wife has never been back on it. Both had crashes because of weight placement and PAS engaging when they didn't expect it. I watched my daughter shoot unexpectedly right toward the front of a large truck head on.

The RMARTIN in your picture has the better design for the frame, and shouldn't shake, the battery is between the axles and low.

The Zuma has really good power, and with the small tire on it like in my video, it's even got noticeably more torque. But this Zuma frame design in a step through is not a choice I would recommend to anyone because of the shake and weight placement.

[tuxman]

My cantilever does not shake like Mobybike step through. I also have a milk crate on the back and fill it with all of my gear daily. (laptop, rain gear, lunch, cellphone, wallet and more) without any weight placement issues. I am 200lbs @ 6ft (91kg @ 1.8m)

Very sad to hear the step through model has these issues. I was VERY close to buying one. At least we can warn others.

BIG MEN: Do not buy the 2010 red step through iZip Zuma; buy the sturdier cantilever.

cantilever... strong enough for a man or a large woman

[tuxman]

Universal MTB front fender bolts on to the top of the fork. Used zip ties to attach the side rods to the bottom. Works well.