I did it, I did it, I did it !!!

[Gregski]

I built an electric bike, took me two years but I did it. Took it around the block and everything. Since I finished her at 10 at night and had no lights to see where i was going or how fast I was going, I can only tell you I was upwards of 20 MPH when I looked down at the speedo when coming to a stop sign and relying on the street lamp but that was off the throttle which at the time being is just a potentiometer taped to the left handle bar jimmy rig style with electrical tape, also both tires are flat, the front one super flat, and finally I am only running on three batteries instead of four because the controller is programmed for 36 volts only until I hook it up to a laptop and reprogram it to 48 volts

my goal is just highway speed 65 MPH and a range of 30 miles, but I'll take anything, man it's a trip to pass people and they don't hear anything

The bike is a 1989 Suzuki Katana GSX600F you may know her by Wattana, I will share some pics and maybe a video soon

Wattana - Stock

[Gregski]

The Magura electronic throttle arrived in the mail today and I was able to find the Serial to USB computer cable at Frys which I need to re program the Alltrax controller and low and behold my new (used) Husky broken air compressor decided not to be broken any more.

So...

I programmed the controller for my 48 volt system and wired up the fourth battery. Then I wired up the throttle on the handle bar like god intended and removed my Mickey Mouse pot from the other side. Next I inflated the tires, front from 4.5 PSI to 24 PSI and rear from 2.0 PSI to 27 PSI (don't ask why up to those numbers I just thought it was better than single digits, lol

Then I went for a test ride, and what a glorious ride it was. I piled up 10 miles before coming home. I also decided that since my batteries are not properly secured with any sort of tie down and all the wiring is held together by a thread it was the opportune time to do a speed test, so I opened her up and saw her climb just north of 45 MPH, not bad, not bad at all - this should improve with proper gearing and the addition of two more batteries

here are some pics of the setup from yesterday before today's improvements, pot on the handlebar, mickey mouse kill switch, and the spaghetti of wires

[wasp]

congrats gregski i look forward to the video

[Gordo]

OMG, it is lead and it goes.
Looks good. Soon you will probably change to LiFePo4 or some other form of Lithium and be truly amazed with the difference.

[Gregski]

OMG, it is lead and it goes.
Looks good. Soon you will probably change to LiFePo4 or some other form of Lithium and be truly amazed with the difference.

Man really, that is what I wanted to hear, but I don't know didly about them fancy LiFePO4 batteries except that they is expensive, too expensive still. But you planted a seed none the less, lol, so I am starting to day dream about them and do my research. Here are some prices on the Thunder Sky packs.

15 x 3.2v 40Ah batteries costs $900 bucks

15 x 3.2v 60Ah batteries costs $1,350 bucks (roughly equivalent to the 55Ah batteries I have now, which I bought for under $500, yes I know there is a huge weight difference etc, I'm just thinking out loud)

15 x 3.2v 90Ah batteries costs $2,025 bucks (almost the cost of my current total conversion, lol)


source: http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_batteries_thunder_sky.php

[TylerDurden]

Nice.

Li chemistry has a higher upfront cost, but cheaper in the long run.

[Icewrench]

Lead batteries while much malinged do provide some useable electrons.
They are the gateway to the E revolution.
Once the grin has been sampled it only leads to other stronger chemistries.
Best of luck trying to control your new condition.

[Gordo]

OMG, it is lead and it goes.
Looks good. Soon you will probably change to LiFePo4 or some other form of Lithium and be truly amazed with the difference.

Man really, that is what I wanted to hear, but I don't know didly about them fancy LiFePO4 batteries except that they is expensive, too expensive still. But you planted a seed none the less, lol, so I am starting to day dream about them and do my research. Here are some prices on the Thunder Sky packs.

15 x 3.2v 40Ah batteries costs $900 bucks

15 x 3.2v 60Ah batteries costs $1,350 bucks (roughly equivalent to the 55Ah batteries I have now, which I bought for under $500, yes I know there is a huge weight difference etc, I'm just thinking out loud)

15 x 3.2v 90Ah batteries costs $2,025 bucks (almost the cost of my current total conversion, lol)


source: http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_batteries_thunder_sky.php

You do not need the same Ah of TS as you have lead to get the same performance. With the 500-1500W scooters that come with 24V 20Ah-40Ah batteries, the guys are finding that 1/2 the Lithium does the same job. My 300 lb scoot has 20 X 40Ah, will go 50mph, and at 35mph has @ 35mile range in some pretty hilly country. My TS cells cost $53 ea landed at my door. So 15 cells = $795. My BMS was $150 and a charger is @ $100.

My TS are 3 years old and now I have a BMS they are all perfect. Enjoy your lead for a couple of years and then think about the next step. By then you will have saved enough on fuel to justify Lithium. For 48V you will probably go with 16 cell. They use the nominal voltage to calculate...16 X 3V = 48V. At rest off the charger, with a BMS, you will have 16 x 3.45 = 55V.

Most lead mobility scooters replace the batteries every 2 years. With Lithium you should get 2000-10,000 cycles, depending on the depth of discharge (DOD) you give them. There is a local guy who is charging TS 180Ah cells to 4.1V and discharging to 2.5V, everyday and is on his 3rd year. He needs to do this to get to work on one charge. Certainly not recommended, but he has decided to do it and take the consequences.

[Gregski]

just wanted to share with you pictures of the Magura Twist Grip ($50.00) which I bought from Electric Motorsports in Oakland California, since I live in Sacramento California I figured I would pay the tax and give the local boys my business. Anyway the first picture is what I thought I ordered, the second is what showed up, and having spoken to some people I am not the first to forget to order the stupid matching left hand grip which costs a bit extra ($2.50) if you set the "Matching left handle bar grip" pull down box to Yes in the shopping cart before you check out.

What I thought I ordered:



What came in the mail:



I'm not mad, just sharing a lesson learned, hoping to help someone else out there.

[grindz145]

You could always just replace the grip you have on your bike now, with the one on the magura, I changed them with bicycle Oury bicycle grips, which area a little thinner, and it wasn't hard at all. Use a little WD-40 to help the grips slide off.

Somebody needs some lipo....

Thanks for sharing your woes, and triumphs

[Gordo]

I put the air nozzle in the hole of the grip opposite the one I want to get off. Put your finger over the hole of the grip you want off and it blows right off.

[Gregski]

wanted to show you the issue I had with the USB to RS232 programming cable, I did not have the patience to order the blue one shown below from an EV supplier, so I found one at a local store called Fry's Electronics for $20 bucks (It was from Aluratek [ahem] with a "k" and looked so pretty) that should have been my first clue, anyway the damn thing would not fit inside the Alltrax controller housing opening for the programming cable it was about 1/8th of an inch too wide... so out came a flat screw driver, and off came the pretty stupidly oversized plastic plug case... look it was late in the evening and I wasn't going to be defeated (ever had that type of feeling?, lol) long story short, I got it to work

So here are the pics, the first one is what the official $15 dollar (plus shipping) cable looks like if you order one ahead of time. The second pic is of what I bought, the third pic is how I "modified" it to get it to work, and the last pic is comparing what I bought with a dime a dozen standard null modem RS232 cable/plug, if you squint just right you can see the size difference (I pealed off the sticker looking for a screw that I thought held the plug together, turns out it was just snapped together)

[Gregski]

OK, so I finished her, here she is, yes there is a dozen small things to do, like source some front turn signals, mirrors, and windscreen, also painting the swing arm wouldn't hurt, if not the whole bike, lol

I validated my choice of donor bike, this 89 Suzuki Katana 600 hides all the electrical components really well, and that was my goal. It also comes with a front wheel drive speedometer and trip meter, another reason why I picked her.

[Jay64]

I validated my choice of donor bike, this 89 Suzuki Katana 600 hides all the electrical components really well, and that was my goal. It also comes with a front wheel drive speedometer and trip meter, another reason why I picked her.

Yeah, that frame has a very large cavity once the engine is pulled.

[Gregski]

Yeah, that frame has a very large cavity once the engine is pulled.

Actually it doesn't. The plan was to fit six 55 AH batteries in there, and after two failed attempts I managed to wedge 4 in there. The large appearance is misleading because the upper cavity tapers in on the top and you don't want to grind material off the frame because that will weaken it. On the bottom you have metal brackets that give support as well and you don't want to cut them off either.

My recommendation to anyone attempting to convert their Katana's to electric would be to use the bigger models or turn to liter bikes instead like the Ninjas or the like.

[Jay64]

I've got 17 motorcycle chassis, including a katana 600, and it has the most cavity space out of all of them besides my goldwing.

[Nuts&Volts]

Got to agree 100% with Jay64. The katana frame is pretty much a boat! I have a 89 katana conversion that easily fit 24 60AH GBS cells and now has 110 EIG pouch cells.

If you redid the lower subframe with batteries in mind and lowered the belly fairing a hair one could easily fit 48 60AH cells stuffed all the way up to the tank. If a hub motor were used, one could possibility get 60+ 60Ah cells by only cutting off some brackets. I shit you not. Now those Lead cells don't give you much flexible because they are so big themselves

I have actually cut off the lower engine supports and have drilled 4 7mm holes into the lower subframe with no ill effects with 1000EV miles. Maybe cutting brackets will workout for you.

[Gregski]

I've got 17 motorcycle chassis, including a katana 600, and it has the most cavity space out of all of them besides my goldwing.

Wow, thanks good to know, I gotta stop being such a baby, LOL

[Gregski]

some photos of the strip down, I didn't go as far as some, because my goal was not a perfect restoration, instead it was a proof of concept in terms of can I build an electric bike, and how fast and how far will it go, in that sense I believe I have succeeded, does it look as clean and neat as I would like - no, well not yet.



This bike has a complete frame, in other words the engine did not act as a sole stress member in the belly area. I specifically sought out this type of frame construction in order to maintain strength and rigidity, especially since the original plan was to use bolts instead of welding, but than I learned how to MIG / Flux Core weld, and Bob's your uncle.



Often times you don't notice the subtle differences as the two different cradle bottom tubes, one is a thin square tube, the opposite (with the side stand) is a solid piece of iron. Extra fun and excitement when it comes to welding especially for a beginner like me.



Notice the engine mounts below. The top ones do not align with the bottom ones, that sucked when it came to attempting to sandwich the motor between them, but I figured it out.

[Gregski]

so pathetic me, is charging with four of these CEN-TECH $5.00 dollar chargers from Harbor Freight, they put out 750 miliamps

this is one of the things that I have learned works, that is if you don't have a 48 volt battery charger you can use four 12 volt battery chargers or two 24 volt battery chargers to charge your 48 volt battery pack, yes there are some stipulations but I'll let the experts tackle that

so how long does it take? a very long time, so long I time my charge with a calendar, lol, that's right I think it takes about 4 days to charge my pack from 48 volts to 51 volts and some change, (again the experts can chime in how we should not completely deplete our packs, but I am still trying to figure things out so I am not even sure if 48 volts is good or bad)

things that suck are that I can't even plug in all four of these ac adaptered chargers into a single seven port power surge protector strip thingie, because the one closest to the on/off button interferes with it and turns the darn thing off so I have to start in the next one over - see these are just all the little things they don't teach you in school - jk

[amberwolf]

Typically 12V is fairly discharged, and 13.4-13.6 is fully charged, AFAICR, for SLA. FLA I can't remember. 10V is pretty dead.

So 48V is just about as far down as you'd want to go, if you wanna keep them around for many (for lead) cycles. Fully charged is probably gonna be about 54-55V or so.

Those powerstrips usually screw together, so you could actually take the switch out, just squeeze it's tabs from the inside, and slip it upwards and sideways in the hole so it's still wired in but not being hit by the adapter, then all four will fit at the same time. Almost always there is at least one good insulation layer on the switch connections, sometimes two, so no risk of shock from it. Or just unplug the switch, move it fully inside the strip with the switch already turned on, tape over the hole, and still be able to plug all four in.


I highly recommend you look around at least for some old wheelchair/powerchair chargers--they're usually 24V at 3-4A or more, so you could charge two at a time, and they are small enough and sturdily-built enough (and weatherproof since they're potted) to mount permanently on the bike if you wish. The ones I have here by Pride only weigh a couple pounds at most, and are about 2/3 the size of a paperback edition of Dune. They are 3-stage chargers, and have a light that signals when done, and they then float charge as needed after that, so you can just leave it plugged in when not in use.

[Gordo]

[quote="Gregski"]so pathetic me, is charging with four of these CEN-TECH $5.00 dollar chargers from Harbor Freight, they put out 750 miliamps

Please read the directions with those FLOAT CHARGERS. They are not to be used to charge a battery. I have bought 20+ of them from Harbor Freight in the last 10 years. I have them plugged into all of my 12V batteries, AFTER THEY ARE FULLY CHARGED. I burned 2 of them out, before I read the directions. They are designed to cut in and charge at 13.25V, charge up to 13.75V and float down to 13.25V, where they begin the cycle again.
You have spent $20 to get 3Ah of float charger, which will eventually burn up (mine 2 lasted several months) if you put them on a discharged battery. For $33 you can get a 48V X 7.5A MeanWell clone off fleabay.