Lyric 3-wheeled scoot now in Utah

[Lock]

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=16553922

A new kind of vehicle gives people a new way to get around
July 27th, 2011 @ 7:15pm
By Keith McCord
DRAPER -- There's a new term in the world of transportation. We've all heard of an SUV, and RV. Well, here comes the PTV… the Personal Transportation Vehicle.


Lyric International has produced the three-wheeled transporters for several years in Europe, and now they're available in the United States. In fact, the first U.S. dealership has just opened in Draper.

The PTV is compact (you can fold it up to about one-third its original size); it runs on a lithium-ion battery, has good speed and decent range.

"When it's buzzing down the street, it pulls people over", says Cy Waldron, Lyric Motion President. "We have people following us home, or coming into the store and saying what is this, I gotta check it out."

For anyone looking for a second vehicle, and doesn't mind a little wind in their face, the PTV may be for you. "The base price starts out about $2,300", Waldron says. "It goes 22 miles per hour, and up to 30-33 miles per charge."

Lyric says the timing of bringing the PTV to the U.S. is perfect. With gasoline prices what they are, people are looking for alternatives. And this design has an attractive environmental element.

"People are more conscious about how often they use a car," says Lyric International President and CEO, Carolin Gey. "What kind of pollution it makes, not just the gas price but also the pollution. This is noise free. So people now have a noise free, pollution free alternative to go places, anywhere you want to go."

What is... PTV?
The Lyric PTV is a 3-wheel electric Personal Transportation Vehicle that can travel up to 35 miles on a single charge at speeds of up to 22 miles per hour. Available with either a 500 or 1000 watt electric hub motor integrated into the front wheel, the LYRIC is powered by lithium polymer batteries optimized for voltage use and rapid charging. It also has self-adjusting dual hydraulic disc brakes and independent axles. -Lyric

The Lyric PTV is street legal, so you follow the same rules as if riding a bicycle. But it can go off-road, and has the power to handle most types of mountain biking trail.

One other feature of the Lyric PTV that causes people to turn heads is it's collapsible. Undo a couple of latches, and in less than a half minute, it's small enough to fit in the back seat of your car. At about 67 pounds, it's easy to lift in and out of any vehicle.

There are a variety of for these PTV's. The North Salt Lake Police Department has just purchased two for patrolling streets and sidewalks. Draper and West Valley City has also put in orders. Employees at security companies use them to patrol large building sites and properties. The PTV's can also be modified for those with disabilities; and there's even a design to accommodate golf clubs.

Lyric has big plans for the future. With its manufacturing facility in Tempe, Arizona, the goal is to open 100 dealerships in the U.S. in the next 3 years. The Draper store, located at 196 West and 12300 South has been open for about 3 weeks, and has already sold about 20 vehicles. The company will have its grand opening this Friday and Saturday.

E-mail: kmccord@ksl.com

There are two videos on the KSL.COM page. "Main Story" vid plus Lyric promo video.

Lyric here:
http://www.lyricmotion.com/

Pretty cool that they are manufacturing (assembling?) in Tempe, AZ...

Lock

[sk8norcal]

ha! missed your post...
I posted here
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=18759&start=15#p437703

bikeboard name change....

how you find this?

I saw someone mentioned it on the goped forum..

[sk8norcal]

http://www.facebook.com/lyricmotion

[SamTexas]

I love the rear independent suspension! I wonder how this suspension compares in (real life performance / useability) with the supposedly simpler design on the Honda Gyro.

[sk8norcal]

its not a independent suspension,

its essentially the same as a Gyro, but the Lyric have return-to-center springs like a skateboard..

http://tiltingvehicles.blogspot.com/200 ... -gyro.html

[SamTexas]

Are you sure? It looks independent to me. Can't be 100% sure though, the picture on their site is not detailed enough.

[sk8norcal]

positive,

pics here,
http://tiltingvehicles.blogspot.com/201 ... ooter.html

[SamTexas]

You're right. Thanks.

[sk8norcal]

check out the zuumer also,
http://tiltingvehicles.blogspot.com/2010/09/zuumer.html

[PaulGT2164]

The rear suspension is not independent. The wheels are attached to a solid aluminum axle assembly that pivots on brass bushings. This is part of a swing-arm that is dampened by a adjustable "coil-over" shock unit.

The suspension works quite well, and is available in standard, and wide axle configurations depending on your needs. It can handle some pretty serious abuse without any issues.

If anyone has any questions about these, let me know as I work for the factory in Tempe, AZ.

We assemble/R&D/test every scooter in Tempe before shipping to our dealers all over the world. While the majority of parts so far do not come from within the USA, they are assembled/tested/innovated by a team of experienced mechanics (I am ASE Master tech certified, and the other 5 assemblers/testers are certified motorcycle mechanics of varying experience.) We are currently working with several suppliers for major components that are here in the US.

[Lock]

Hi Paul

Care to comment on the relative merits of two wheels versus three? I'm a big fan of stand-ups but only have two wheeled experience...

Cheers

L0cK

[PaulGT2164]

The three wheel arrangement helps with stability and cornering.

I can come to a complete stop on my Lyric/Bikeboard and not have to step off to the side, both feet remain on the platform. I can also ride "no hands" with no issues using the Lyric's cruise control if I get tired of holding onto the handlebars, have to check the phone, or adjust clothing.

Also, from friendly death-racing comparison the suspension system we employ corners harder, faster, and much smoother than your typical two-wheeled scooter. I can turn into a corner, with power, and not worry about the scooter sliding out from under me, nor do I have to worry about sand/gravel/water - as the three wheeled design allows stability and a wider "track." The cornering speed and ability to put down the "power" means pretty much any "stock" scooter than has shown up at a death-race is left in the dust pretty much.

The Lyric is FWD, which allows some nice trailbraking / slides under power (the rear hydraulic interrupt switch can be easy disconnected) and is much faster in the corners than any other scooter (2 wheeled, or three wheeled) that I have ridden.

Also, in a feel-good kinda way we have had extremely good results and feedback from the handicapped, they like the smoothness, and the maneuverability of the three wheel system. We can change the "dampers" in that controls the side-to-side motion of the rear axle to stiffen it up. This makes for a much "sportier" and more "dignified" ride then what most of the handicapped community is used to when it comes to assisted locomotion haha. It really ads to my (and the other techs) pride when we have people raving about how our product made their lives so much easier.

I know this all sounds like a marketing pitch, but the suspension/arrangement of these really is great, and to my knowledge we are the only ones that offer this style. We are constantly improving the product (as with any "new" product we occasionally encounter issues and change on the fly) and slowly but surely improving the quality of the components and performance. The "inventor" is constantly out-of-country dealing with our suppliers to improve and innovate.

I worked for years in the automotive restoration field (my true love) and because of the economic turndown I was laid off, and have not been able to aquire another position in that field, so I was unsure when I started my employment with Lyric Motion/Bikeboard. However, I have grown to really enjoy the products, and the management/co-workers really make the place fun to work. I never thought I would want a scooter, however my wife and I (and even the cat) ride ours all over the place, and for fun. I have two now that we would be quite sad if we had to give them up!

I will have to take some pics of mine, as they are modified slightly, and I have a library of fun GoPro videos (quite possibly the most epic scooter burnout in history...) if anyone wants to see them. If you live in the Phoenix area then PM me and we can set up a test drive, with no pressure (as we have no salesmen at the factory.....) I always like seeing people's reactions to these!

[PaulGT2164]

Here are a few pics I have snapped of the scoots.

Me and my cat on one of my scooters. The scooter is a slightly older model, my wife prefers the smaller tires so this one is "hers." I have been in the assembly/R&D department the longest. I am a certified ASE master tech. I would estimate I put over 200KMs a week on scooters between work, and home so when I say they hold up, they really do. The last ten days I have been working on some different battery systems, so I have racked up over 450KMs in range testing/cycle/power testing. I am going to Bonneville next August for a record attempt (side project, car - nothing electric) and will be taking my scooters as "pit bikes," so that should make for some really cool pics.





DSC08776 by PaulGT2164, on Flickr

Some cornering, note the lean, and how the rear suspension is firmly planted.


DSC09055 by PaulGT2164, on Flickr

A detail pic of the rear. You can see the LED taillamp, and the suspension, note the "dampers" for the leaning. We have three colors that change the amount of "tension" resisting leaning. You can also see the rear disc brakes, which are hydraulic. This is our "street" model, hence the smaller rear tires.


DSC09060 by PaulGT2164, on Flickr

Some 25kph+ Sliding!


_DSC8224 by PaulGT2164, on Flickr



DSC09360 (Custom) by PaulGT2164, on Flickr

Detail shot of the front 55W Projector headlamp, and the frame neck. The frames are made of aluminium and as you can see, the quality of the welds is very good :


DSC09582 (Custom) by PaulGT2164, on Flickr




DSC09374 (Custom) by PaulGT2164, on Flickr

[Lock]

Thanks Paul! All good stuff. Comments on three wheels very interesting!

Success to you and Lyric. I am embarrassed to say that your product is still not legal in the provincial backwater I call home (Canada.)

Lock

[amberwolf]

Or in Phoenix, as far as I am aware. Fortunately most cities in the valley haven't passed stupid laws against powered stand-up scooters (becuase of kids abusing them in public places and getting hurt), but according to the police here, if you want something powered it has to have a seat and pedals on it, or be a registered moped or motorcycle, or it has to specifically be a mobility device limited to 8MPH on roadways or 4MPH on sidewalks.

I havent' been able to find any online versions of the Phoenix laws, so I don't know how accurate this is; it's what I have been told, over time, as I started researching my ebike quest a few years ago.


I'd love to see those kinds of scooters around the valley though. Without a seat on it, I couldnt' use it myself for very long, but it'd still be pretty nice to try out.

[Evoforce]

Also not legal for riding in most places in Arizona including Mesa, Gilbert, Tempe, Scottsdale, Phoenix, etc... Now the level of harassment you encounter will vary over time. From outright confiscation, to warnings, to disinterest, to "I want one", from cops. Those are considered play vehicles in Tempe, and are banned from sidewalks, bike lanes, and streets. I hope the fact that this business is located here, will force positive change to our laws. It is just a matter of time before push comes to shove. I was told just last week by a SRP worker that I couldn't ride my electric bike on the multi-use paths along the canals. He was on an electric golf cart and when I asked him how many volts it was, he new nothing about it. Then he spied my headway batteries in my fancy case and made his speech. I could tell he knew nothing about electrics and I promply showed him that I used these batteries for my fancy lighting system. Had an aquaintance of mine have his electric bike confiscated in Gilbert by an officer(officer Gilbert no less) who boasted that he had removed several of these unlicensed electric mopeds from the streets. His bike was a walmart (e-bike) not capable of speeds over 20mph. The thirty days of impound was more than the bike was worth so the towing company ownes it. All the other charges were dropped... no insurance, no registration, no turn signals, etc...There are more stories but i'm tired of typing. I am glad this is here to force change. Really hope this business is powerful enough to stand up to the politics and help us win this fight. Look up this site http://azbikelaw.org/blog/is-your-motor ... y-vehicle/

[PaulGT2164]

Generally we have had zero issues with the police. We ride multiple times a day, everyday and have not been stopped once, other than a few questions about the scooter.

Me and a co-worker were doing battery tests yesterday, and a Tempe police officer had parked to monitor a stop signed intersection. We rode past him about 20+ times in the period of an hour and he did nothing but wave. We frequent a local eatery, where Police officers are always easting and we ride ride up on the sidewalk and park in front of the place, and they have never said anything negative.

So at least in Tempe, they don't even bat an eyelash at the scooter. We got stopped by a security officer once (at Tempe Marketplace) but once he realized the scoots are electric, he said we could continue to ride around the shopping center.

[Evoforce]

Trust me Paul... The city of Temp has been one of the worst at not allowing alternative transportation on their streets and sidewalks. I have been to City meetings trying to help effect change. No other e-bikes representing and some pedalists. The pedalists have an exclusive rights issue and don't generally accept e-bikes.(we're cheating not exercising). But they have a few people showing up to try to have their voices heard to get what they want. Contrary to what the stick your head in the sand people would say, we need more people and businesses representing. You cannot get what you want if you don't ask for it regarding positive legisation toward e-bikes/scooters. There will be a day not too far in the future that you or a customer will find themselves in trouble for riding around town. The more you get to know as many cops you can, the better. In fact, the business you work for would do well to somehow develope a relationship with the police departments through some kind of promotions etc. and attending relevent town meetings. The more we can make these vehicles mainstream, and have the numbers of riders behind us, the more likely we can change stupid laws. You have been lucky so far...but get the wrong cop and he will throw the book at whoever he can. The fines can be in the thousands of dollars and can raise your insurance rates among other things. I daily ride Mesa, Tempe, Gilbert, for years now. Be prepared for the cop that doesn't like anything being on the street but automobiles. Please don't take my post as me having a negative attitude toward the product or you. I really like it and wish that I could have one(with seat of course). Right now though, it is a magic act to keep my electric bike on the road and multi-use paths. Have to fake pedal all the time and still run the risk...Have many stories to tell you. Amberwolf and I have been planning on doing a ride. Would be nice to get with you too.

[PaulGT2164]

I think the police are more tolerant due to us being located in Tempe, or because they view out scoots as different than an e-bike. I know I have been riding daily for a little over a year there, along with 6 other co-workers. The owners have been doing so fokr three years, with no issues.

So whatever is working for us, hopefully will continue working!

[Evoforce]

Actually, because you don't have working pedals and have smaller wheels makes them less compliant with current law. Keep your fingers crossed like I do and keep hoping for the best in the meantime.

[Lock]

Keep your fingers crossed like I do and keep hoping for the best...

And I'll suggest a more proactive effort. Know the law, State and local by-laws and where the "problems" (opportunities) are, then introduce yourself to a local enviro-friendly City councillor. Outline problem/opportunity, show safety track record from own experience and other jurisdictions, and start the ball spinning in your direction. If you wait for somebuddy else to start spinning the ball first, there's a good chance it'll be headed off in some direction ya don't like...

Lock

[PaulGT2164]

I think we are largely ignored because of the issue of what the thing is.

It does not really resemble a bicycle in any manner, nor does it look like a "goped" of any sort.

I think most of the police around Tempe where we ride probably assume it is in the same class as a Segway, therefore ignore us when we are on the sidewalk or streets. That and we typically only wander in 35mph or slower posted streets. Tomorrow when I eat lunch I am sure I will see some Tempe police officers eating there, and I am going to ask them what they think.

Generally the company (Factory, not distributors) does not much care about the laws in the US governing these, as most of the sales happen overseas in countries where they are street legal when registered, and meet the requirements of the law (Brazil, Switzerland, Germany, Italy, etc.) I am pretty sure our US distributor will be in charge of figuring out the legality for here in the states.

[Lock]

I am not familiar with AZ laws, but under Title 28 - Transportation:

http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/28/00101.htm&Title=28&DocType=ARS

28-101. Definitions
6. "Bicycle" means a device, including a racing wheelchair, that is propelled by human power and on which a person may ride and that has either:
(a) Two tandem wheels, either of which is more than sixteen inches in diameter.
(b) Three wheels in contact with the ground, any of which is more than sixteen inches in diameter.

(This is the definition for Segway:)
20. "Electric personal assistive mobility device" means a self-balancing two nontandem wheeled device with an electric propulsion system that limits the maximum speed of the device to fifteen miles per hour or less and that is designed to transport only one person.


31. "Moped" means a bicycle that is equipped with a helper motor if the vehicle has a maximum piston displacement of fifty cubic centimeters or less, a brake horsepower of one and one-half or less and a maximum speed of twenty-five miles per hour or less on a flat surface with less than a one per cent grade.


32. "Motor driven cycle" means a motorcycle, including every motor scooter, with a motor that produces not more than five horsepower.


33. "Motor vehicle":
(a) Means either:
(i) A self-propelled vehicle.
(ii) For the purposes of the laws relating to the imposition of a tax on motor vehicle fuel, a vehicle that is operated on the highways of this state and that is propelled by the use of motor vehicle fuel.

(b) Does not include a motorized wheelchair, an electric personal assistive mobility device or a motorized skateboard. For the purposes of this subdivision:
(i) "Motorized skateboard" means a self-propelled device that has a motor, a deck on which a person may ride and at least two tandem wheels in contact with the ground.
(ii) "Motorized wheelchair" means a self-propelled wheelchair that is used by a person for mobility.

and:
http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/28/02516.htm&Title=28&DocType=ARS

28-2516. Motorized electric or gas powered bicycles or tricycles; definition
A. Notwithstanding any other provision of this title:
1. A certificate of title is not required for a motorized electric or gas powered bicycle or tricycle.
2. Registration is not required for a motorized electric or gas powered bicycle or tricycle.
3. Vehicle license tax is not imposed on a motorized electric or gas powered bicycle or tricycle.
4. A motorized electric or gas powered bicycle or tricycle is exempt from the provisions of section 28-964 relating to required equipment on motorcycles and motor-driven cycles and from the provisions of title 49, chapter 3, article 5 relating to vehicle emissions inspections.
5. A driver license is not required to operate a motorized electric or gas powered bicycle or tricycle.
6. A motorized electric or gas powered bicycle or tricycle may use rights-of-way designated for the exclusive use of bicycles.
7. A motorized electric or gas powered bicycle or tricycle is not subject to chapter 9 of this title.

B. This section does not prohibit a local authority from adopting an ordinance that regulates or prohibits the operation of motorized electric or gas powered bicycles or tricycles, except that a local authority shall not adopt an ordinance that requires registration and licensing of motorized electric or gas powered bicycles or tricycles.

C. For the purposes of this section, "motorized electric or gas powered bicycle or tricycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with a helper motor that has a maximum piston displacement of forty-eight cubic centimeters or less, that may also be self-propelled and that is operated at speeds of less than twenty miles per hour.

I'm thinking the Lyric is a "motorized electric tricycle" in Arizona... if your front wheel is more than sixteen inches in diameter and top speed less than 20mph. Seems there is no requirement that "bicycles" in AZ need a seat.

Note that brain-dead citizens can still whine to city councils about passing local ordinances to ban and restrict...

Lock

[PaulGT2164]

I would say you are quite correct on that Lock, however I think it would be hard to find an officer who is well versed enough to know/care! Thanks for the info, I am printing it and taking it to work, and I am going to show it to some officers at lunch tomorrow and see their take on it.

I read some info in Title 28, however it must have just been an addendum or revision document as it did not include some of the information you found.


I know a few years back there was quite a bit of backlash against the noisy and slow gas powered "gopeds" and they have been banned from many places, however we have not had any complaints (work or at home) from people with the electric scooters. Most are pretty excited about it, even when I ride through some of the more "posh" communities around where I live.

[Evoforce]

Had an adult friend of my sons stopped in Tempe on a electric scooter. Was told that he wasn't allowed to ride it anywhere but on his own property and if seen riding it again it would be confiscated and fines imposed. It is all Russion Roulette. Depends on which cop or cops you run across. In this metro area, I can easily find myself riding through 6 or 7 different cities during a ride and each of them have different rules and a slew of different cops. The rules are confusing and contradictory. I want it to be legal to ride electrics, period. Not some grey area, not some outright ban, not left to interpretation, not left to the discression of the cop that stopped you, not left to some city to impose different or stricter rules, not left to the politician or prosecuter in office at the time, not left to crossing my fingers and hoping...So far, the few city meetings I've been to, my one voice has not been enough for them to make change. It will take a real showing of people to get this right...To date, it has not been important enough for people to take time out of their busy schedules. I don't have the time to do it either, but when I ride my electric bike/scooter or whatever, I want to be able to ride it somewhere besides around my quarter acre lot. No one else cares about (us) electrics but (us). P.S. Also another dumb rule...motorized scooters have a ban from multi-use paths. Oh, and another agravating thing, all of these paths as well as parks are closed at 10:00 P.M. or risk getting a fine of $5000. and 6 months in jail. In the summertime here, It doesn't get nice enough to go play outside till after ten.