Adult kick scooter conversion...

[ecowheelz]

Just wanted to get some input on these new kick scooters we started carrying at our shop. Not only will we be selling them "as-is", but we're going to be converting a couple to electric. Probably going with a 350W geared motor in the rear to reduce weight and provide true freewheeling. But we're not sure about the battery and want to find the cleanest solution possible. So far, the "tube battery" (by Amped and others) seems like the best option. We could mount it upfront (along the downtube), but keep it up high and off the deck. Or, we could possibly mount it below the handlebars (up front). Controller should fit under the deck. Any other thoughts on batteries? Here are the options:

20" Willy Kick Scooter



26" City Kick Scooter

[Ykick]

Nada on the controller under deck. Infineon is little wide. Possible to spread tubes and I always wanted to try that but never got around to it.

Batteries are fine on the down tubes - I even started with SLA, later NiMh and eventually RC Lipo. I've powered both City and Willy. Dropouts are pretty decent width but I still used torque arm on one side. 100mm - perfect for front hub wheel in the rear. Here's a thread and the pics seem to be working: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17535

Willy eventually broke from speed/weight but the City has a bit more flex and still holding up well.

Good luck!

[Lock]

One thought about pack placement higher up is that the added weight might "overpower" the tiny kickstands... In any case w/the pack higher up if the bike falls over the pack might receive more of a wallop hitting the ground than if it was installed lower down?

Lock

[Ykick]

Sidewalker actually uses a floor stand that raises the rear wheel evenly off the ground so there's no leaning. Trouble is, it's not very robust and a small tab usually breaks off and will need to be welded but when it works it works very well.

I usually remove the floor stand after a while and just lean it against a wall or lay it over on it's side when parking.

My harsh crash on the Willy was early ride with Lipo mounted low on the down tube and they never received a scratch even though the bike and me did complete summersault. I'd keep weight low and enlarge the deck since stock Sidewalker deck is quite small for more than short distances.

[ecowheelz]

Thanks for the input!

The kickstand should prevent the battery from tipping the scooter, but having it higher up will definitely make it top heavy if it falls. Not sure we have many other options, because if we mount it low, it will take up deck space. And yes, we were thinking the same thing about enlarging the deck. Wood would be easy enough to make, or we were even thinking about some sort of diamond plate deck. Considering a rider probably won't be "kicking" as much when converted to electric, a wider deck to place both feet (comfortably) would be ideal.

So the Infinion controller won't fit under the deck? What if you cutoff the mounting tabs / plates? It looks pretty close. If we re-do the deck, maybe we can raise it slightly to make more room...

[willfcc]

I just put one of these together, a red Willy with 10S2P in a Topeak trunk bag. It's great for easily removing the bag and taking it with me. Longest ride to date is 12m/19km

The bag rides on it's matching rack mounted on the fork, and it makes the center-stand almost worthless. I'm using Tioga Comp Pool 20x1.75 tires, and both tires are still in contact with the ground when on the stand. With the slightest bump or tremor, the fork turns and the scooter falls. The fork MUST be pointed straight ahead, but it's quite precarious.

Even with the batteries mounted low on the down tubes, I think it will still tip over quite easily with the rack and bag.

I, too, am going to widen the deck, and find a more visually pleasing solution for the controller instead of mounting on the down tubes. In my dreams, I envision a combination of these two scooters:

michaelplogue's Standup Scooter of Death and Rob English's Custom Superlight Kickbike

Will

[Lock]

Considering a rider probably won't be "kicking" as much when converted to electric, a wider deck to place both feet (comfortably) would be ideal.

Not kicking exactly, but as Ykick noted in his earlier thread, standups "encourage" riders to transition from riding to kicking and walking more easily which I believe is safer in crowded urban environments. I'm a "hyper-miler" myself of necessity `cause I've only EVer had nominal 480Wh of SLA to play with... And I have scars on top of scars on top of scars on my ankles from knocking metal/sharp edges on scoots. So I'll suggest that if ya install a wood deck that you notch around the edges and fit some sort of "bumper" tubing etc.

Re controller placement, front tires can kick up a lot of rain water, so watertight should be a given, and ya might consider building a short "step" into the front of the deck to hold the controller underneath. There's a reason why bars have foot railings...

I'm used to feet generally at the back end of the deck and front end/available remaining space useful only for occasional passenger or just to shift stance around for comfort, better than being "locked" into one stance because of a too-small deck area. A tear-drop shape, wider at front, narrowing to the back I think may also help to reduce ankle strikes especially on turns.

Lock

[Ykick]

Thanks for the input!

The kickstand should prevent the battery from tipping the scooter, but having it higher up will definitely make it top heavy if it falls. Not sure we have many other options, because if we mount it low, it will take up deck space. And yes, we were thinking the same thing about enlarging the deck. Wood would be easy enough to make, or we were even thinking about some sort of diamond plate deck. Considering a rider probably won't be "kicking" as much when converted to electric, a wider deck to place both feet (comfortably) would be ideal.

So the Infinion controller won't fit under the deck? What if you cutoff the mounting tabs / plates? It looks pretty close. If we re-do the deck, maybe we can raise it slightly to make more room...

Tabs are not the problem, it's the width of the extruded housing that's just barely too wide. It isn't by much but it wouldn't work for me unless I spread the tubes which I never got around to doing. I just mounted it on one side of down tubes and called it a day.

For wider deck I just scavenged old skateboard deck and trimmed it to fit. Worked fine for me and look at my pics to see how I used the forward area of the deck to support batteries on both sides of the down tubes.

They're great fun, purpose built frame would be best IMO. Sidewalker claims cromoly steel but it seems a soft variety and when I get back to my office will post photos of the stress fractures I encountered during my year commuting with the Willy.

[sk8norcal]

i see a couple of things I don't like about the Willy,
the height of the handlebar wont allow you to put in the back of a car.
no optional add on seat.
I prefer seat, I think I have better control around pestrians/stop and go situation.
no problem transitioning to walking.

the rangebike seem like one of best design out there, and its got a seat option
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=31130&p=450921&hilit=rangebike#p450921


lock, is there a pic of ur scoot?
where r u putting the battery?

[Kepler]

I really like the design of these scooters. They are light and look to be very efficient to propel with a kick action. I think if you are looking to convert this type of scooter, you need to be true to the whole point of the efficient design and ensure the conversion doesn't detract from this. I would imagine people who buy this sort of kick scooter still want to use it as a kick scooter and get the exercise from it.

Even a geared hub motor with controller and batteries is going to add a fair bit of weight to this platform and spoil some of kick action fun. I think this platform lends itself to a light weight RC friction drive setup really well. With a target output of 350W, a small out runner on a pivoting custom mount over the rear brake could be setup. with the tiny RC speed controller, very little room is needed and one or two 6S 5Ah lipos wont take up too much room either. The drive would fully disengage when not used and the extra couple of kg of weight will have very little impact on the riding experience.

Just a thought

[sk8norcal]

http://zumaround.com/

[Ykick]

I wonder why they went with front hub motor since these use 100mm rear dropouts and a front motor fits fine in the back?

Anyway, 'forgot to share my damaged Willy pics and I'm on he road again but check this Doc thread where I posted the Willys I've converted and you can see what eventually happened to my commuter...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26319&hilit=+Willy

I also have a converted City that's nice but either design is too low in the front and doesn't take much of a drop off to stick and send you over.

One of these days I intend to build from scratch. Use a leading link front suspension fork (no dive, better front ground clearance) and mount more stuff under the deck.

[sk8norcal]

not sure if the Zumaround is related to EcoWheelz,

according to their facebook,
they are part of Clean Republic,

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_i ... 8019922156
http://www.electric-bike-kit.com

[sk8norcal]

zumaround available for purchase

$1250

http://www.zumaround.com/purchase.html

http://www.gizmag.com/kickstart-zumarou ... ter/24233/
https://www.facebook.com/Zumaround?ref=ts&fref=ts

http://vimeo.com/15517827

[winkinatcha]

way hey... just found this section of ES... Nice as I have "accidentally" gone a a bit scooterish (as part of what i do, I occasionally get to buy dead or dieing e-vehicles, and pull em apart to figure out how they work, then hopefully put em back together again, only better and last couple of weeks I've managed to get a couple of smaller kick scooters... kinda razor ish style... )

BUT that's not the main point of this post...

This is my latest "transport of choice"....

1355114842757.jpg (39.97 KiB) Viewed 750 times

1355114842757.jpg (39.97 KiB) Viewed 750 times

This is a converted Adult Sized (20" wheel) kick scooter

1355007080149.jpg (37.02 KiB) Viewed 750 times

1355007081171.jpg (50.81 KiB) Viewed 750 times

Kinda got lucky with this fram design being THREE down tubes which makes for a neat little space for batteries and controller...

I have placed a 20" geared hubmotor on the back, originally sourced from a front wheel drive trike... had to expand the dropouts about 10mm to fit it...

Currently it is running 48v 15ah (57v hot off the charger via a split Konion cell 14s pack) through a 10 amp controller, giving... roughly 500 watts... Top speed is around 30 km/h (faster than the average cyclist) and at this "low" wattage I get a range of roughly 50 km.

On steeper grades I assist it with kick... at max speed tho, kicking is kinda pointless (leg wont move fast enough to add any power)

As you can see it is still in the "prototype" stage (wires and shizzle and packs strapped to the frame)... so it looks wierd science... but functionality wise... it is the bizz

I am going through the process right now of neatening it up, and will be adding a rack over the rear wheel.... and looking to enclose the batteries and cntroller in their current strapped to the downtube format, and bring switchgear and meters up onto the handlebars.

It is purty heavy.. I'd guestimate around 25kg... 10 kg of which are the batteries (konion pack is heavy, and ultimately the reason it is on this vehicle, cos personally I reckon the pack is too heavy for the WHrs for a bike.

Handling wise it is a dream... The weight down low seems to suit this type of vehicle well... The dinky little kick stand is failing but that is no surprise...

It is running oldskool single pivot brakes front and back (with motor cutoff)

Clearance is a slight issue... in my opinion this is definately an urban surface vehicle, and I have learnt to judge ramp exits and such fairly well, and avoid/dismount/slow down with the odd scrape occuring still...

In the urban environment there are a lot of plusses... it is very easy to bring up onto the back wheel and wheel around, mono style, which works well for negotiating steps and escalators and the like... so much so that I reckon rear wheel drive REALLY has a huge advantage over front, just for this purpose....

I MIGHT up the power to 1kw... but gotta say that the current range really floats my boat...

All in all I am really astounded with the convenience of this vehicle... it'll fit anywhere a bicycle will fit (IE easy for Public transport)... very simple step-and-go (no need to worry about trouser cuff and shoelace "interacting" with chain and chainring...) the current max speed of around 30km/h is more than fine for cycle ways and lanes, and the configuration makes it easy to step off in crowded ped areas and has less widt for wheeling around than a bike.

Far more transport versus fitness though

Well pleased to see that 20" wheel kick frames are still being manufactured, cos for the life of me I can't find any here in AUS except for being really lucky with this one which I picked up second hand....

Oh and one final MAJOR point.... Chicks Dig It

Joe

[meerkatmb]

lipo batteries are so fast to charge I really wonder about using anything that charges slower,expensive yes, but if it is the difference between having to plan out charge times, distance traveled, and those type of considerations, I end up riding less,so whats the point? The answer, two battery packs that can be run independently as well as a way to bring your charger with you. Having your charger with you really makes sense on the lipo batteries because a ten mile batttery pack only take 30 min to charge./Users/myalders/Desktop/meerkatconstruction.jpg