Honda Accord build - starting now

[JohnC]

.

[SamTexas]

Have you seen the white zombie?

http://vimeo.com/19651664

Impressive! I wonder how much energy is being consumed during those races. 2,000wh/mile???

[McDesign]

First thing - the Honda needed tires. I did some looking around for Low-Rolling-Resistance tires in the 195-60-15 size I needed (nice factory alloys, no neeed to change 'em). I may have them powder-coated black

TireRack had the 2nd-best choice in some tests I found (after Michelin) in my size; the Bridgestone Ecopia EP422. Better price delivered, $395, than my local Tires 'n' Wheels would/could do (they'll just mount and balance them). This is the south, so they've got a tire lathe - I will have them turn the tires true once mounted.

Looks like the Ecopia returned a bit better than 4% gas-mileage compared to the average.

Now I've got to really research that guy with the cardboard tail cone on his car . . .

Forrest

[bradstuff]

I'm thinking something like the EMC motor and Curtis controller combo from Electric Motorsport - the 85HP max for acceleration should be fine; 35 HP continous should let me Interstate cruise at 70.

Batteries will be Iron-phosphate; we're finally getting into some at work and have a long association with BYD.

Forrest

Most DC series wound motors for high voltage EV use have advanced brush timing. This means they suck at spinning backwards. It is also why they are poor at regenerative braking. The important issue for your Honda is that its engine spins backwards from most other cars. I think ADC or Netgain motors can be ordered with reverse timing. Not sure on the motor from Electric Motor Sport.

Some other options would be an AC drive:

http://hpevs.com/ The AC 50 with a Curtis 1238 controller http://www.curtisinstruments.com/index. ... DS&CatID=1

http://www.azuredynamics.com/ The AC 55 and controller would do nicely. Azure is what became of the Solictria electric cars.

A more powerful DC controller option is the Soliton I from Eventics. http://www.evnetics.com/#!

I would like to here more about the BYD batteries. For mere mortals seeking batteries that are not made of Unobtainium, Thundersky and its clones are the only option for a long range car.

Brad

[McDesign]

Hey, thanks for that - I forgot about Honda being reverse-rotation from almost everybody else! looks like some more learning to do.

Got almost all replaceable suspension parts, stiffer springs, and axles coming in this week; I want to go through the "platform" and verify it's sound before starting to mod a twenty-year-old car!

Forrest

[MitchJi]

Hi,

It seems that for Lead-Acid, I'd need about 90KWh; with lithium maybe 70KWh. $Tens of thousands either way!

That's way too high. Typical Ecar consumes 250wh/mi. So you'd need 25Kwh for a 100 miles range.

Agree!
The Tesla Roadster, admittedly lighter and more aerodynamic, has a ~50kwh pack and a range of over 200 miles.

Would you please post a link to the BYD batteries and a rough price?

[McDesign]

I'm still tracking down an internal link to BYD - will post what I can find out.

Forrest

[McDesign]

Interesting analysis on BYD from Motley Fool -



Special Update: Sell BYD

By David Gardner and Sean Sun
July 20, 2011
It was about this time last year that we happened across a company that had all the makings of the next great Rule Breaker. Its solid, fast-growing core business was a contender for top dog in its market. At its helm was a visionary founder with blessings from the most respected investor in history, Warren Buffett. That company was Chinese carmaker BYD (Pink Sheets: BYDDY.PK), cleverly anglicized as Build Your Dreams.
Unfortunately, our experience has left us wondering if it wouldn't be more aptly named IYD -- In Your Dreams. Whatever the case may be, it is with a heavy heart that we recommend selling BYD.

A Stalled Investment
In some ways, this story was just too good to be true. In 2009, BYD had a 6% share of the Chinese car market -- more than any other domestic manufacturer. With only 1% of the Chinese population owning cars then, we felt the $12 stock price was justified even if BYD never gained any more ground on its less-worthy competitors. If BYD just maintained its existing market share, the expansion of the entire pie would have been enough to push the stock ever higher. In reality, both parts of that thesis are unraveling: The auto market isn't growing as fast, and BYD is doing worse than its competitors.
The removal of Chinese government stimulus policies have the entire auto industry at a standstill. Combined with strict restrictions on car use in already overpacked metropolitan areas, the latest forecasts suggest the possibility of an across-the-board 10% decline in auto sales for 2011. For the past three quarters, BYD's net income has come in more than 90% less than the year before, and the company's latest news was that the losing streak will continue, with first-half 2011 profit expected to drop 95%. There are many ways to lose money, but year-over-year decreases in sales volume is one of the worst for what should be a fast-growing, disruptive innovator.

The disappointments didn't end there. Although not a critical component of our thesis, the fact that BYD was developing electric vehicles and had what many thought was a major lead in battery technology also offered a positive outlook. But the e6 -- BYD's long-promised, long-awaited, all-electric sedan -- has still not seen the light of day. First announced in 2008 with expectations for a 2009 launch, the company's latest projection puts a U.S. startup in 2012.

[McDesign]

Here's an interesting reality-check of the whole EV conversion idea for those who might be new at looking at it. This is a complete quote from a reputable company for all of the pieces I will need to peform my EV conversion.

There are two caveats - I still need to make / source a motor mount plate to adapt to the Honda transaxle - say $1000-2000. Secondly, I'll use GBS 3rd-Gen instead of ThunderSky batteries - they are better and ~450 lbs lighter, but add about $4000 to the total.

So - we're looking at more than $40 K here!

Quote pg 1.JPG

(80.88 KiB) Downloaded 26 times

Quote pg 2.JPG

(82.92 KiB) Downloaded 26 times

Quote pg 3.JPG

(34.21 KiB) Downloaded 26 times

Forrest

[SamTexas]

So - we're looking at more than $40 K here!

Isn't that more expensive than a Nissan Leaf? It would make sense to go ahead with it anyway IFF the expected result is far superior than the Leaf. But that appears to be a tall (if not wishful) order.

[McDesign]

I'm glad you asked that question! Yes, my batteries will be almost as much as a Leaf - it lets you know how much the car companies are subsidizing their electric vehicles!

I mentioned in another thread I was getting an EV Profiler - I did, and I'm using it. Attached is the report link from my commute yesterday, and it was to drop the '91 Accord off at the dealer for a (free) seatbelt repair- my actual morning commute is 5 miles further. Bbasically, I drive my normal commute, and the EV Profiler compares it to the energy cost of a 2011 Leaf, based on GPS and accelerometers.

As you can see, I wouldn't have made it in the Leaf, overdrawing my capacity by 17% - and that's just getting to work - I still have 16 miles to get home. the leaf has a 21 kWh pack - I'm designing for a 41.5 kWh pack.

EVP1.JPG

(134.25 KiB) Downloaded 16 times

EVP2.JPG

(141.38 KiB) Downloaded 16 times

http://www.123evp.com/Reports/aDailyRep ... ur=5&max=5

Forrest

[SamTexas]

So range is a problem. If it was me, I would buy the Leaf and find a way to double its battery capacity.

[McDesign]

That would be a Leaf + $12,000 and another 500 lbs and where to put them?

Not that I haven't thought about it!

Forrest

[Hillhater]

Here's an interesting reality-check of the whole EV conversion idea for those who might be new at looking at it. This is a complete quote from a reputable company for all of the pieces I will need to peform my EV conversion.

There are two caveats - I still need to make / source a motor mount plate to adapt to the Honda transaxle - say $1000-2000. Secondly, I'll use GBS 3rd-Gen instead of ThunderSky batteries - they are better and ~450 lbs lighter, but add about $4000 to the total.

So - we're looking at more than $40 K here!

They are just parts quotes ?? freight and labour not included ??

I know you plan to do the work yourself, but you must value your time at some cost if you want to be honest about costing this exercise.
You could end up with $50k invested in a 20 yr old vehicle !

also, , whilst the Leaf may have failed that journey test, it wouldnot take much adjustment to driving technique for it to make it comfortably.
There have been several independent tests of the Leaf that have achieved over 100ml on a charge.
Not to mention the revised battery Nissan will have available in the near future.
http://www.caradvice.com.au/44892/nissa ... r-battery/

And doesnt the Leaf cost about $25k after rebates / tax credits ??

[vanilla ice]

Order a Tesla S if the leaf won't cut it! Ready made is the boring way out I know..

[The Mighty Volt]

Given all the disadvantages of Lead Acid, I'd completely rule it out unless I want to build a very low speed vehicle (a la golf cart) or a one with an extremely short range (10 or less miles). But who would want such a vehicle?

What about mixing it up, Thunderskys with Pb, or A123 Pouches with Pb. Is that viable, or does everyone keep their EV packs of uniform chemistry?

[Arlo1]

Excited to see how this goes.

[McDesign]

Thanks! Here's moments ago - working on the aero now before I do the converstion; just put these skirts on - I still have to put pieces behind the rear wheels, but am running to the hardware for more screws.

Skirted mostly

100_2929.JPG (65.03 KiB) Viewed 657 times

All the skirting came from one 8' piece of 18", 5-layer neoprene and fabric, industrial conveyer belt. Also, the car's now ~2.25" lower, side mirrors and exterior antenna deleted, mudflaps gone, and the wheel discs. Before the skirts, I got the mileage from 26.5 to 32.5 on the same commute.

[cgbjake]

You may want to check out

http://ecomodder.com/

[McDesign]

Yes - I've been reading there some. Here's all skirted and blacked just now -

Black skirted

100_2931.JPG (72.32 KiB) Viewed 651 times

Forrest

[Arlo1]

Or http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/main2.htm

[McDesign]

WOW! Lots to read there - will tackle that tonight, after the pumpkin-carving party - thanks tons.

Forrest

[McDesign]

Interestingly, the skirts are worth an honest 2+ mpg -

First fill-up last night appended to bottom of list below; the whole tank was with the new skirts; same commute, same speed, same gas station, same pump even as I usually use.


345 miles; 12.927 gallons  26.7 mpg (first recorded; tires are ~ten years old)
358 miles and 13.791 gallons  26 mpg

397 miles and 14.264 gallons  27.8 mpg (first tank on new LRR tires)

396 miles on13.6 gallons  29.2 mpg (minus mirrors, antenna, mudflaps; add wheel discs)
435 miles @ 14.71  29.6 mpg
406 miles at 13.748 gallons  29.5 mpg
446 miles on 14.545 gallons  30.7 mpg
421 miles @ 13.871 gallons  30.6 mpg

474 miles @14.42 gallons  32.9 mpg! (lowered ~2-1/2")
470 miles @ 14.753 gallons  31.9 mpg (daughter's HS on fall break; less interstate time)
484 miles@14.88 gallons  32.5 mpg

476 miles @ 13.50 gallons  35.25 mpg

Forrest

[SamTexas]

When do you plan to have this electrification project completed?

[McDesign]

Man, I'm having trouble making the battery purchase. I'm investigating some interesting new technology for a very large application at work, and I just have this fear that batteries are about to be old-tech.

Forrest - conflicted