Back in the Saddle, 'Bent Mid-drive project!!

Just read through your thread :D Lot of weight to that motor :!: Can't wait to see what your max speed is :shock: What are your impressions having switched forks? Is the steering noticeably more stable at speed? Was trail changed much? Lovin this build :mrgreen:
 
dbaker said:
Just read through your thread :D Lot of weight to that motor :!: Can't wait to see what your max speed is :shock: What are your impressions having switched forks? Is the steering noticeably more stable at speed? Was trail changed much? Lovin this build :mrgreen:


Well, currently, I can gear it for as low as 14.2 MPH and as high as 49.6 MPH no load, but of course that just means that I've effectively lost a lot of gearing range since anything over probably 35 MPH on the flat is going to be wasted at 45V of LiPo, however, since this is such a large motor, will require me to eventually change up the gearing, I also plan on going to say, 74V or there about to gain even more efficiency.

I love options though, so first I think I will build the adapter to allow the use of track cogs at the motor and go from there. :twisted:
 
dbaker said:
Just read through your thread :D Lot of weight to that motor :!: Can't wait to see what your max speed is :shock: What are your impressions having switched forks? Is the steering noticeably more stable at speed? Was trail changed much? Lovin this build :mrgreen:


Oh sorry forgot the forks ... I love having the 1 1/2 inch taller forks, no real change in handling that I can tell, now I just have less possibility of a pedal strike while turning at slow speeds, and any tire I want to squeeze in there will fit just fine! :D

I didn't really notice any difference at speed, more of a change in height than geometry from what I can tell just seat of the pants. :wink:
 
Well, I discovered an easy way to move the motor back from underneath the seat, AND I will use the same bolt that holds the motor to hold the rear fender mount down, simplifying things, today I will be testing under power! Soon I will have efficiency info to post. Hopefully the large motor will soak up heat better at 48V, if not, I will be heading to Vancouver WA to check out a different slightly smaller motor.
 
Some pretty good progress today, too tired to take pics though sorry. :wink: (I'll have some tomorrow for sure)

I had an attack of the perfectionist in me, and decided to take time making a really nice looking and minimalist "dash board" and I inherited a keyed switch, so this is going to be my cleanest build yet! 8)

In hopes that I will get some benefit from regen braking, I am going ahead and wiring up the original switch cluster that I got from Lyen so I could have a headlight switch, future blinkers and regen brake switch, but I am torn on getting yet another switch and wiring in an electronic horn that I have still from my first E-Bike build (the one that sounds like a fire truck's unique "horn") since I could get a momentary switch pretty easy and attach it in the same place as my bell.

Anyhow, all is going well, and will be done sometime tomorrow (need to ride to an appointment Wed. so I will have to buckle down tomorrow) and hopefully give me time to do some errands on the bike for a test.

Last night I finished wiring up my new 24V 25A power supply and I am pretty pleased with how it turned out too, all batteries are freshly balanced, and ready to go!

Just need to finish installing my switches, install & program the CA, and I am done! :D

This is also going to be my most compact build, other than wiring for the CA and & a few switches on bars, it's going to have very few wiring compared to previous builds where I had to run power wires to my Turnigy watt meter to keep an eye on the battery, all that will be done with the direct plug-in large screen CA!

I really can't wait to try everything out! :twisted:
 
Pics!

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Here I had to take the RH thumb throttle and adapt it for the left, just cut and re-glued the cable guide strait instead of bent down to keep it from being in the way.

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Here I finally found a good place to attach the controller, I just drilled some blind 1/8 holes and used some machine screws from computer cases to attach it, seems to be pretty strong, used silicone to lock the threads, will see if it needs more after the first test ride, might end up going to med locktight if needed.
 
Well, it always seems to take longer than I expect ... took me a while to figure out I was missing a connector and that was why my harness wasn't matching up, recycling the wiring from my last build.

More pics tomorrow! :)
 
New Pics!

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I actually wanted to cover the switch box with some thin ABS sheet, but I was out, so used coroplast instead, and it turned out better than I expected, might just keep it. :)

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All that I need to do now is decide how to cover the rest of the wires, reattach the seat & bag, and plug in the batteries (oh ya program the CA too) and it will be live! :mrgreen:
 
Finally!! Sucess!! (Sort of :? )

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So!! pick up the rear wheel, crack the throttle and hear the sweet music of the motor, and realize the pedals are flying around! :shock: :roll: :lol:

(maybe this now explains how the motor locking up with phase wires touching lead me to believe I might get some marginal regen braking ability, not so .. it the NuVinci freewheels quite smoothly with the motor turning it in reverse ... good thing I spent all that extra time wiring in the E-brake "horn" button! :roll: :lol: ... I'll have to wire up my electronic horn to it now :wink: )

I'm going to have to figure out the easiest way to swap phase wires or what ever I can do to get the motor going in the opposite direction (IIRC this should be no problem?) either that or I will have to employ once of Rassy's tricks to get the chain turning the wheel in the opposite direction or something ... and just when I was hoping to get a 40 MPH+ no-load speed to see how my gearing was treating me.

For now I need a rest my body and brain are a bit worn out, gonna relax, eat dinner and then finish. :wink:
 
Sounds like you are close. If I understand it correctly, you should only have to swap any pair of phase wires and their corresponding hall wires. One possible problem is that the phase wire colors and halls wire colors may not correspond, but there are only three swaps of the halls to try, so shouldn't be a big deal.

I didn't even try to run my 9C backwards (that was the original plan) because it came with the disk brake threads on the other side, which meant when running the motor it is trying to screw the freewheel or track cog on tighter, which is good.

Also, I have read that some motors are not neutral timed or symmetrical concerning the placement of the hall sensors. and thus will only run optimally in the forward direction.

Good luck, anxious to see how it all works out. :D
 
Thanks Rassy! :D

The only thing I "know" (and I use this word VERY loosely :p ) about this motor/controller combination is that it's a relatively standard one, and was the same that is typically standard with Lyen's controllers.

However, upon reading about this, it would seem unless I have the right motor/controller combo, it could indeed work out that I will not get the same performance going in the opposite direction as going forward, so I'm really hoping this can be just a matter of swapping wires, since that would defeat the purpose of the build's simplicity and ease of installation.

If wire swapping isn't feasible, I guess I will have to settle for using some form of jack-shaft, because running the left side would again defeat the purpose, as I would gain no benefit from the motor running through the NuVinci's "gearing"
 
Holly gearing Batman!! :shock: :shock:

I set the "max speed" at 59 MPH on the CA so my first no-load test with the over-drive maxed, I have 64MPH on the CA before it starts cutting out!! :D :D :twisted: :twisted:


Gonna have to fix that and see what the no-load is with out that restriction! :mrgreen:

(This just means I have WAAAY too tall of gears atm, gonna have to get that fixed to properly climb the local hill, but it will sure be fun going down, all the way at 40 MPH in the 35 zone! :twisted: :twisted:
 
W00000T!!!

OK, this is INSANE!!!

I put the speed limit back to 99 MPH thinking "yeah right" and twisted the throttle gently and at 78 FREAKING MPH I seriously got worried!!!

Yeah, I know this is just no load speed, and hot off the charger surface charge, but WOW!!

That and it has this SEXY "Jet Turbine" sound probably thanks to the 9T motor sprocket! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I was too scared to use any more throttle given that I don't have a proper center stand and if I slipped and the bike fell to the ground it would launch!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

(I have been hanging one side of the seat on the edge of the desk in the garage and just propping it up!)

They must have REALLY screwed up the description on their web site listing it as 1100 RPM's at 48V, that or I have made a serious error of my own calculations?! :oops: :roll: :lol:

I'm estimating about 75 - 80% throttle at 78 MPH no load speed, and YES I am sure I have the correct wheel size into the external speed sensor with magnet!! I know these are good numbers, I have used them on two other cycle computers and confirmed them with GPS and radar speed signs (I measured the exact distance marking the floor and all that 2123 for a 26 x 2.3 in wide tire)

I think I just put together my first 40+ MPH E-Bike (if the motor has the guts! :mrgreen: )

Man I don't have an EV grin I gotta permanent JOKER SMILE that will have to be SURGicallY reMOVED!!

That and an uncontrollable case of the giggles!!!!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
I just turned the NuVinci down to lowest gear, and maxed the throttle, and it hit 38 MPH!

If my calculations are correct, that means the new correct RPM at 49V is 3,000 RPM, and from the sounds of the motor, I wouldn't be surprised, I need to borrow a lazer tach or what ever you call them to confirm my RPM's :twisted:

It's time for some serious chain! #219 here we come! 8) :twisted:
 
That is just cool as hell man. I wish i would have been able to ride that mid-drive with the nuvinci before i left town because it sounded rad.. you gotta get some video of this sucker when you get it out on the road.

Judging by the pics it looks like you got a nice heated seat for the winter, LOL..
 
neptronix said:
That is just cool as hell man. I wish i would have been able to ride that mid-drive with the nuvinci before i left town because it sounded rad.. you gotta get some video of this sucker when you get it out on the road.

Judging by the pics it looks like you got a nice heated seat for the winter, LOL..

Heck ya! :D :oops: :lol: :lol:

It's my "seat of the pants" temp sensor! :wink: :mrgreen:
 
dbaker said:
Can't wait for some on the road numbers, current draw vs. speed :mrgreen:

You and me too! It's raining today, but who cares! I have a mission!! Soon as I get some breakfast and adjust the amps down a bit to be safe, I'm gonna see what this baby can do! :twisted:
 
Oh well, no such luck so far, I must be one of the "false positive" hall wire combinations, it's not getting hot or stuttering, but it's pulling way too many amps and barely going along on flat ground, gonna have to try and find the right wiring combination. :roll:
 
Ok now that I have the Rshunt value correct, I'm getting more power, imagine that! :lol:

I've taking it on some low speed test rides seeing where the "sweet spot" is gearing wise, and I just realized to help me be more accurate at judging gearing for the motor, I will stay with my 48T chain ring on the crank, so as to not have the motor working to hard against tall gearing.

Still checking things out for now, not sure if I will be testing on the hill climbing with this tall of gearing, but I will check most everything else, and should have some efficiency numbers soon! :D
 
amberwolf said:
I guess that means you found the right combo?

Yep! John in CR had to set me straight! :mrgreen:

He wisely tried to get me to run it with out the CA hooked up to test things initially, but I missed that, since my Rshunt value was wrong, the current limit of 25A I set was considerably lower.

I now have much higher power than I did and although it's not as torquey as I hoped, it should be great for all around use once I have the correct gearing.

If my current calculations on engine RPM are right, the gearing is now set for 135 MPH on the top over drive speed! :shock: :lol: :lol:

Not that I have an agni or similar type powerful motor to make use of that gearing! :mrgreen:
 
Ok! These are not what I would call "official" numbers yet just preliminary, since I am taking it easy and checking the motor & controller a lot as I use it to make sure I'm not over-doing anything, so today I took a little trip around town with everything just to make sure it's holding together right and stable.

Here are some screen shots from my CA to show my efficiency so far:

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Nice pic to show the max no-load speed I have seen so far! :D

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13 miles distance-

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Nice little Watts per mile, but this is with very little hill climbing, and nothing too steep yet, that should be done tomorrow. I did lots of pedaling today too, so when i start using the motor more consistently, I'm sure the watt/ mile will increase closer to 13 or so.

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And a nice little supply run for a little DW40 and some solder. :p

I'm very pleased so far! This motor doesn't have huge torque off the line, but once you are up and running it really seems to hit "power band" I sprinted to nearly 30 MPH with ease several times, and climbing a minor hill of about 3% it didn't slow at all, starting at about 20 MPH at the base, and 23 at the top with little effort!

The correct Rshunt value seems to have quieted the motor down considerably too, not sure why this is, maybe coincidence, I have no idea if they would be related, but I lost some of that high pitched turbine sound, AND the low range now hits over 50 MPH on no-load (haven't seen how fast yet) when before adjusting the Rshunt, it only hit about 38 MPH. It's also lost the low speed stutter from a stop.

Going down the big hill today, I was able to keep pace with cars at about 39 MPH, no surprise here, but so exhilarating!! :twisted:

I was shaking it was such a rush that even when the hill flattened out for about 3 blocks or so just before the 25 MPH zone, keeping up with cars where normally I couldn't at that speed!

I'm sure once I get a NuVinci developer's kit and have the electronically controlled and mapped shift points I will gain considerable efficiency, but for now I'm having a great time with the good ole' N171B. 8)
 
Well, I just talked to my friend in China at Golden Motor! He has been so helpful, and explained a lot! (Wish there were people in the sales department as helpful in their China office :roll: :lol: good thing the local dealers especially the one in Canada are so helpful too! 8) )

I was pretty dead-on with no-load calculations, apparently this motor will spin at 2800 RPM's in no load, but is designed to run at 1100 RPM's at 800 Watts under load, and that I have pretty much confirmed, since I have road it around a bit, it has seemed to mellow out, not even in no-load tests does the motor make as much noise as it did initially! :D

Of course, if I ever decided to really go nutz with some high voltage, it might be a bit noisy, but for now, it's working as originally planned, and today after some chores, I hope to go for a nice ride to visit The Green Scene (local E-Bike shop), and hopefully meet up with a friend or two on the way and hang out with the owner and show off my new build, and see what he has been building lately! :twisted:
 
Ok! I got some pretty amazing numbers to share from today's ride.

One thing to note, I never charged the batteries between yesterday and today's ride, so that means it's more of the two combined. :D

My pack is 12 AH's but to keep in line with the better practices to get maximum longevity from LiPo, I am sticking with only using 80% capacity, which means I would try to never use more than 9 AH's, and for this test, I only used 6 AH's or 2/3's of that available capacity. Given that fact, I would possibly be able to go another 10 miles of this type of riding if I used that last 3 AH's available to me. Also of note, this is not my final battery capacity goal.

In the end I plan on doubling the amp hours of my pack, for a reasonable range of 50-60 miles while on tour.

Here are screen shots of the CA display:

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Note, the starting voltage was 47V resting voltage today, and I had used 2.65 AH yesterday. Total miles (yesterday & today) 33 miles.

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And here is the real shocker! The Watt Hourss per mile went DOWN even thought I included the entire large hill with power! :mrgreen: Just 8.2 Wh/Mile! :twisted: I would have expected that number to go up, not down including the big hill in town!

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Now this one is a little puzzling, I have no regen braking, yet somehow I managed to get back 5.6% according to this reading (possibly due to the fact that I don't know enough about proper calibration for this feature of the CA)

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Here is another surprising thing! The average speed went up from yesterday's 11.9 MPH average to 13 MPH average! Gotta love more speed and efficiency. 8)

Now I want to note also that the way I ride my E-Bikes is somewhere between a true E-Bike and E-Assist, most of the time, I'm not using much throttle if any, part of the time I am just using the motor to get 3-7 more MPH on the top end generally averaging about a 4 - 7 amp draw, and I use the motor most on hills.

For example, I will commonly use the motor to get up to speed after I already have hit about 10+ MPH on the flat, then using it with pedaling to reach and then maintain about 20 MPH.

I will use as much throttle as needed on gentle hills to maintain 20 MPH, but I am pedaling about a medium pedaling effort.

If I were to use the power constantly, I would probably use about twice the Wh/Mi, and once I have the first stage of reduction sorted out so that it's not overly tall geared, it will be better over-all, right now I have no real low end (7MPH for climbing steep hills with a heavy camp touring load, right now gearing is about 16 MPH minimum speed) and more high end than I need or that the motor can take advantage of, it needs adjustment which I will do, once I decide the final voltage to run for greatest efficiency.
 
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