Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35mph?

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Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35mph?

Postby SamTexas » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:46 pm

Short version: Based on your personal experience which bicycle (brand/model) would you recommend for sustained riding at 35mph. Cruiser style preferred, but not a necessity.

Long version: Despite my efforts I am now solidly on the dark side. I have been riding my chromoly Trek (no suspension) equipped with a front 9C 2807 and an 18s 17Ah LiCo up to 35mph. I keep telling myself how reckless and how stupid I am for doing so, but my right hand is not listening. Just last week I tried 22s 17Ah and hit 40 with more to go. It's crystal clear to me that if I were to hit a small pot hole at that speed, I would be a goner. So instead of attempting to control myself, I decided to find a bicycle that can truly handle that speed.

Your turn.
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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby miuan » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:05 pm

Any quality freeride or DH bike. Most modern DH bikes are nicely slack and super stable at speed. My Kona Ute is stable too at these speeds, but I have a RS Recon fork and Big Apple tyres.
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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby ambroseliao » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:53 pm

I know that a Tidalforce S-750 frame with a good suspension front fork can easily handle 35 mph and can also easily handle 40 mph. I have an older Manitou Trance 150mm front fork that does a good job. It is oversized and has disc brake mounts. The frame is solidly built and the geometry is very comfortable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgF2OyzvIdM

Starting at 30 seconds to 1:30 I'm going over 40 mph. The rest of the video, my top speed is over 35mph.

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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby sn0wchyld » Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:40 pm

Id happily recommend my norko, though the frame is a bit of a pita to mount batts on. ive had it at tops over 60km/h so far and it felt great. Basically any decent DH/FR bike would do fine, go fore one with a decent head angle - thats what makes em so stable at speed (though riding at <~10 takes a bit of getting used too, really 'wobbly' at first)
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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby zombiess » Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:56 pm

I strongly suggest full suspension over 30mph. I've tried locking out my rear shock and didn't make it more than a mile before realizing my money was spent well on a full suspension.

My 26" wheeled bike is a Diamondback Comp Recoil which can be had for $700, there is a much cheaper Diamondback Recoil which I believe is under $400, same geometry with lesser frame build and cheaper components, but I'm stable at 40+ and have to counter steer like a motorcycle. I really want to go to 24" wheels now for better acceleration and will do 20's if I can figure out ground clearance.

Worst part of FS is figuring out battery mounting, rear racks suck unless you loooove wheelies. I had a cheap alum seat post rack cut, flipped and welded so it goes forward over the top tube, fixes the wheelie and balance issue and makes the bike so much better.
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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby SamTexas » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:44 pm

Thanks guys for the replies. I forgot to mention one additional requirement: I'm not too comfortable with aluminum frames. I want and trust chromoly steel frames. Do they make full suspension bicycles with chromoly?
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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby liveforphysics » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:52 pm

Cro-mo is an excellent frame material, and also my first choice.

To me, the ideal bike frame for speed is just something extremely laterally rigid. It it's going to have suspension, it better be extremely dampened and NOT cause the front or back to flex around an inch while you're under cornering loads. I don't care if the wheels go up and down in a controlled damped fashion (like good suspension should), but most bicycle stuff is just a flexy disaster if you're trying to really rail turns.
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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby AussieJester » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:24 am

SamTexas wrote:Thanks guys for the replies. I forgot to mention one additional requirement: I'm not too comfortable with aluminum frames. I want and trust chromoly steel frames. Do they make full suspension bicycles with chromoly?



They used to but switched to aluminium sometime in the 90s didn't "they" I believe Brooklyn Machine Works
still build chromo frames if you have the mulla for one

http://www.brooklynmachineworks.com/

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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby sn0wchyld » Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:30 am

SamTexas wrote:Thanks guys for the replies. I forgot to mention one additional requirement: I'm not too comfortable with aluminum frames. I want and trust chromoly steel frames. Do they make full suspension bicycles with chromoly?


your going to be buying second hand if you want steel. everythings alloy these days.
My builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29373
Norko Aline Park DH - Clyte HT3525 - 24s lipo
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p534823
'02ish Avanti D8 - 8085 170kv - 5s 40ah lipo - ple80 recution
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43143
RC Electric mountainboard
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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby miuan » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:18 am

There are local garage brands all over the world which can source CrMo and make custom frames. Do it! Darkside here in Slovakia, Franta Mrázek in Czech Republic and Majin in south America for example. I could get you locally one pre-owned DH frame from Mrázek for under 300 USD + shipping.
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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby SamTexas » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:10 am

Brooklyn Machine Works? Nice, but way too overpriced.

I guess my best bet is to look for second hand bikes. So guys, which older chromoly full suspension bicycles should I look at?
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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby Spacey » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:11 am

Greyborg?
http://www.custom-ebikes.com is my new Ebike company serving the Uk and Europe
Free Uk shipping over £49.99
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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby SamTexas » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:39 am

liveforphysics wrote:I don't care if the wheels go up and down in a controlled damped fashion (like good suspension should), but most bicycle stuff is just a flexy disaster if you're trying to really rail turns.

Good. I'll keep that in mind.
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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby AussieJester » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:04 am

SamTexas wrote:Brooklyn Machine Works? Nice, but way too overpriced.


Agreed...they are my favorite mountain bike frame still ;-) A little
birdie told me someones building a 'replica' one of these to ;-)
Can't see the money in them, wheelchairs are even worse
my new one is $AU5,853 it has less tubing than a bike frame for goodness sakes.

good luck with the search for a chromo frame anyway
go for something that was high a end downhill frame in its day, will be cheap
now obviously....

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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby sn0wchyld » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:15 am

if you can find a avanti d8, they were top bikes back in the day, and are still regarded pretty well today. And they look sick. Mind you Im a little bias since i own one :D
My builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29373
Norko Aline Park DH - Clyte HT3525 - 24s lipo
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p534823
'02ish Avanti D8 - 8085 170kv - 5s 40ah lipo - ple80 recution
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43143
RC Electric mountainboard
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=57489
RC longboard with my own CNC routered parts!
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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby AussieJester » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:56 am

Is there a few differnt models of the Avanti D8? I searched
google and found a variety of bikes with the Avanti D8 name
but they differed in design? maybe the owners have modified them?

Very nice looking frames IMO to..

D8.JPG
D8.JPG (142.38 KiB) Viewed 1827 times


NicolaiNucleon (1).jpg
NicolaiNucleon (1).jpg (18.1 KiB) Viewed 1827 times


^^ i seen smaller swing arms on 600cc super sport motorcycles LoL


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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby dogman » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:28 am

Despite our spat the other day, we seem to me more alike than different. My tendency to build bikes that can't go faster than 30 mph is partly due to a bad right hand that seems to have a mind of it's own. Similar to the third leg taking over at times.

And now you are running front hub pretty fast too, which I did. I was happy enough with cornering the front hub bike untill I just got so much power on it that it spun the tire when you got back on the throttle even at speed. For me, that was at about 24s voltage, and when I went to 26s I started either crashing it or coming so close to it it scared me stupid. So you are getting real close now to what I consider the upper limits of safe riding with front hub in terms of power. Cruising at 35 mph should be safe enough if you have really good torque arms, and better than just hose clamps attaching them. I welded tabs to my forks to bolt on the torque arms.

That race bike was a very lateraly stiff old chromo mtb, so it did corner real nice. But off track, doing test runs on the street, there were enough potholes and just funky bumps in pavement to terrify me. I did break spokes one time. Above 40 mph, it simply was a real problem to hit a large bump like a patched hole where a trench had been run across a road for a gas or water line to a house.

A cheap FS wallbike, cannot corner as well due to both lateral frame flex, and flex of the cheap swingarms. So if you need suspension, it must be decent stuff.

My favorite bike at the moment is not so great, but has nice steel rear swingarms for attaching a motor. It's the mongoose blackcomb. For casual street riding below 30 mph, and moderately hard trail riding this bike is serving me very well. But the frame is laterally weak, and I immediately tossed the idea of racing it. So this bike would be ok for cruising 35 mph, but not cornering 35. Corners at 20 mph fine.

My best FS frame for lateral stiffness is an old 2005 Giant DS 3. This was a low end of the price range DH bike in it's day, so it had a somewhat heavy, but very strong frame. It has great lateral stiffness, but not as much as a good cromo frame. This is what you should look for I think. Something in a true DH frame. But not so high up the price range that it's going to shave too much weight. Not so new that it has more radical frame geometry designed solely for hucking huge drops either.

Though I haven't ridden one, an example of this kind of bike I was wanting to get, is the Kona Dawg. Of course, I liked the name too. These are going to be all alloy of course, so what you need to look for is beefy looking frames and swingarms, and particularly good rear dropouts that make designing your torque plates easier. Not lacy looking rear drops full of lightening holes.

Goes without saying, your next really fast bike ought to be rear hub. It could be a hardtail, if you streets are pretty nice in general where you live. They aren't here, except the brand new neighborhoods.



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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby sn0wchyld » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:48 am

AussieJester wrote:Is there a few differnt models of the Avanti D8? I searched
google and found a variety of bikes with the Avanti D8 name
but they differed in design? maybe the owners have modified them?

Very nice looking frames IMO to..

D8.JPG


NicolaiNucleon (1).jpg


^^ i seen smaller swing arms on 600cc super sport motorcycles LoL


KiM


top ones the d8, no idea what that other thing is, unless its a reallllly old d8 model... looks sick though. :twisted:
My builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29373
Norko Aline Park DH - Clyte HT3525 - 24s lipo
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p534823
'02ish Avanti D8 - 8085 170kv - 5s 40ah lipo - ple80 recution
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43143
RC Electric mountainboard
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=57489
RC longboard with my own CNC routered parts!
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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby kfong » Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:18 am

I like the looks of the Nicolai Nucleon DH, that is one custom high end DH frame. Interesting gearing setup. Makes me want to build a bigger CNC.
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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby sn0wchyld » Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:36 am

on second look looks like it has one enormous bloody great shock in the back too! awsome. bet you it makes an x5 feel light as a feather though.
My builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29373
Norko Aline Park DH - Clyte HT3525 - 24s lipo
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p534823
'02ish Avanti D8 - 8085 170kv - 5s 40ah lipo - ple80 recution
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43143
RC Electric mountainboard
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=57489
RC longboard with my own CNC routered parts!
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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby SamTexas » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:41 am

dogman wrote:... Similar to the third leg taking over at times.

I might use that line :D Thanks for sharing your experiences.

I realize that it would be quite a task searching for a second-hand chromoly FS frame. But I'm somewhat patient. I'm going to give myself a month. After that I might give in and go with an aluminum alloy. Not a bad situation after all. I will have plenty of time to think about where to put the battery.

So keep the recommendations coming guys. Much obliged.
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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby kfong » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:42 am

If you like the travel on that bike wait till you see what I'm waiting delivery on, Versus Weapon X DH. One of the few bikes with 9" of rear travel. Built like a tank, but heavy like one as well. Luckily it's not too much of a concern for an ebike build. Going to be tough to electrify, 150mm rear through axial. My winter build. Should be interesting. It can easily take the high speeds, but I'm only interested in trail riding, so 25-30mph is the most it will be setup for. Great for jumps, but probably less maneuverable on single track. It's definitely more suspension than I need, but if you want a cushy ride at high speeds, then a DH frame is a good route to take.
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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby sn0wchyld » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:16 pm

kfong wrote:If you like the travel on that bike wait till you see what I'm waiting delivery on, Versus Weapon X DH. One of the few bikes with 9" of rear travel. Built like a tank, but heavy like one as well. Luckily it's not too much of a concern for an ebike build. Going to be tough to electrify, 150mm rear through axial. My winter build. Should be interesting. It can easily take the high speeds, but I'm only interested in trail riding, so 25-30mph is the most it will be setup for. Great for jumps, but probably less maneuverable on single track. It's definitely more suspension than I need, but if you want a cushy ride at high speeds, then a DH frame is a good route to take.


it looks like a fairly small part of the rear suspention is removable... you could try making that section of the rear yourself, with custom inbuilt torque plates. A fair hunk of work, but shouldn't be too hard if you got the time. Believe me, torque plates that are intergrated into the bike work great, even without nuts1 :twisted: though it is a royal pita if you want to get the wheel off again....


edit
found another pic, this should be easy if you have access to a drill press and a angle grinder! just see if you can get a spare of the rear linkages that attaches to the hub to use as a template.
My builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29373
Norko Aline Park DH - Clyte HT3525 - 24s lipo
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p534823
'02ish Avanti D8 - 8085 170kv - 5s 40ah lipo - ple80 recution
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43143
RC Electric mountainboard
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=57489
RC longboard with my own CNC routered parts!
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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby kfong » Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:10 pm

Not really a problem for me since I have my own CNC mill. It's usually more to do with time these days. That's why I picked it up for my winter build. I'll have a better idea on what I plan once I get the bike. I needed a backup bike, my BMC build has been down for repairs for over a month, I don't want that to happen next year. I've been using my Cyclone build for the trails. but it performs more like a dirt bike at 50volts, it doesn't give me the same satisfaction as the BMC. It's also too noisy and geared wrong for me to get any serious peddling in, and has lousy front suspension. Still good fun but not what I'm into. This will be similar to the BMC, but a big step up in components. Larger brakes, a floating rear brake. Long travel suspension for jumps. Higher ground clearance. I'll be posting a build thread on it. I didn't want just a backup, it had to be different enough to explore other type of riding. Mainly jumps and faster terrain type riding, since I will be pushing the BMC motor a bit more on this build. DH frames don't turn as well, but have no problem going really fast down mountains. It will be my first DH frame to play with. Not many in Michigan, too flat. Some hills up north, but I don't even go to them when I snowboard or ski. If only we had mountains like out west.
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Re: Which bicycle can comfortably and confidently handle 35m

Postby Accountant » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:29 am

Our steel frame can handle over 70 mph

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