kmxtornado's first e-bike conversion build thread *photos*

[kmxtornado]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I have a lot to work with. You guys were very helpful in the short amount of time since I started the thread. I really appreciate you guys spending time helping me and forwarding me links and stuff. Just so that you guys don't think all your responses are being wasted, I started a blog recording my project and progress (photos included of course!). I've decided to restore my bike (strip and repaint the frame, remove rust from wheels, etc) before putting on the cool e-power stuff on it. I figured it's better to put hundreds of dollars worth of stuff on a cool looking bike than one that's rusty and looks it's age (11 yrs). Painting procedure is a bit tougher than I was hoping, but I'm managing this preliminary work. I should be done in hopefully a week and the ebike conversion will follow.

http://e-bikeconversion.blogspot.com/

[ty cohen]

well, I am like you as well as I have a 50 cc scooter I use to commute and a 400 cc sportbike that I use for fun. I also have a road bike , a mountain bike , and a fixie. I'd like to sell the scooter and sportbike but I doubt I'll get anywhere near the costs of a decent ebike. I had a bad experience with a 9 continents motor and I was just about to pull the trigger on a bafang kit, but the retailer here only wanted to sell the full set up, meaning I'd have four bikes now. Not something I'm contemplating at the moment. I then looked at yescomusa and bms battery, as their prices are really good, but a little hesitant on them cuz their reputation is somewhat spotty at best. I then looked at cellman's kits, but his were a bit more expensive and running 1200+ delivered to my door. That's more than what I'd get for my 50cc scooter. To me converting from a 50cc scooter to an ebike is a downgrade in transportation (sorry if I offend anyone). I feel the same way as with my 400cc bike to my 50cc scooter.

I haven't bitten the bullet on one yet, but it'll most likely be cellman's kit. He is a native English speaker, and is a trusted dealer here and has a good reputation and I've corresponded with him a couple of times already, but will most likely wait till the new riding season next year. I need reassurances that I won't run into another problem with the 9C I had and loose money and faith in ebiking.

I think, in the long run, a few hundred bucks more to buy from a trusted dealer over a China dealer with questionable sales and hard to communicate skills is well worth it.

[wesnewell]

I know yescomusa is in California. I've bought 3 kits from them and get them in days. Where is cellman located?

[d8veh]

In the UK, we tend to use the Bafang BPM Hillclimber motor rather than the Mac for hilly areas. I've never heard of problems here with this motor - no overheating, no melting gears. Those problems tend to be related to the smaller 250w motors that have been over-powered by their users. At the moment BMSbattery are offering a complete kit of the low speed, high torque motor for $189 (code 15 201 rpm). This particular motor has the right characteristics to climb the sort of hills that you mentioned, You need to add about $150 for shipping. This particular version of the motor will do just under 20 mph at 36v. If you want to go a bit faster, you can use a 44v (12s) lipo pack.
To keep within your budget, it would be worth finding out about lipos. It's not rocket science. Most people are happily using them without problems, but there are risks, and you'd need to know about them to avoid them. Lipos give the current you'll need to climb the hills. They're cheap and light. A 12 cell (12s) 44v 10aH pack will cost about $200 with connectors and cheapest charger.

So, in my reckoning, that's the whole kit for less than $600, and it'll do everything that you want. You'll still need to make/procure some torque arms, get a rack and a bag for the battery.
Here's how I did it:
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electri ... g-bpm.html

[dogman]

What exactly is your battery? And give us a link to where to buy that bafang.

Bear in mind though, England is not crammed between the ocean and huge mountains like SF is, but it still sounds like a better motor for hills than the typical small gearmotor. A slower speed winding would make all the difference for hills.

[ty cohen]

What exactly is your battery? And give us a link to where to buy that bafang.

dogman:

Here is the bms battery kits: (I believe you replied to a post of mine about this company) http://www.bmsbattery.com/26-ebike-kits


Here are their batteries http://www.bmsbattery.com/50-battery-pack


Shipping is around $180 to North America. Add taxes and duty to that. Mine came out to about 800 - 900 dollars.

Still not quite convinced to go this route over cellman though, even though cell mans rig will cost almost $300+ or more.

[kmxtornado]

...If it's really in the $1,000-1,200, maybe I'm in the wrong place and e-bikes aren't for me. I just can't help but to think with some sacrifices, something along the lines of an ebay kit might be decent especially since I'm new to this and it's only my first real e-bike. Not even sure if it's really for me.

You get what you pay for. But you're in the relatively ebike friendly city of San Francisco, so why not hit the local shops and ask (beg) around among the local riders/builders for test ride?

I'm actually going to do that next week and take a test ride of some of the bikes already equipped with Prodeco kits. I'm being offered a 24v 250w one w/lipo battery for $500 b/c apparently Prodeco is phasing those kits out to replace them with the new 2012 36v (or 38.8v from what I've read in their new docs on their website).

[dogman]

Ok, now I get it. BMS battery. Not sure I'm convinced they belong on the recomended vendor list. But I don't doubt that if you get functional stuff, you end up very happy. I just don't compare them to an A123 battery at all. Sort of apples and oranges.

I tend to forget such places exist, since I tend so much to be talking to people who expect near motorcycle performance from an ebike more and more these days.

[kmxtornado]

NEW GOAL:
I'm definitely not expecting a motorcycle-like experience with the e-bike. In fact, after hearing all of you, I'm deciding that the e-bike doesn't need to perform nearly as much as I originally wanted (due to the cost).
- I'd like it for my better half to just be able to ride alongside me (keep up) while I'm on the trike (non e-powered).
- She'll be pedaling. So no more need for this e-bike to move by itself.
- Definitely no more large hills. There may be inclines but nothing anyone would consider a hill (yes, even you Texas folks would say it's easy).
-16-20 mph tops. We don't need 25mph anymore.

DECISIONS I'VE MADE SO FAR:
I've been doing my own research at non-ebike websites to learn terminology. I'm seriously a newb. They've been saying the number aH is often times equal to the range in number of miles. So 10ah = 10 mile range. That sounds good. I don't need much more than that.
- 10ah battery
- 24v or 36v? Hmmmm...haven't decided that one yet. I know 24v gives me more range and less pressure on the motor. It's also cheaper and in turn so will the battery. So maybe 24v? Please share input on this.
- 250w motor will get me 16-20mph while 500w would get me probably 18-21mph, right? So 250w's okay?
- Another reason I should stick with something small and less powerful is b/c I don't think my bike frame is disk brake compatible. I figure regular non-disk brakes aren't strong enough to stop a high powered motor, right? In other words, e-bikes with high performance specs need disk brakes for safety, right? Surely the hub can mount a disk brake, but the caliper doesn't mount on the frame I don't think. So I'm pretty much stuck with the regular brakes. Even if it could be converted, I don't want to invest that much money into a crappy 12 yr old bike that I'm just painting to make look pretty.
- Geared hub motor. I like the small size and the advantage of extra torque than speed.
- Since it's geared, I guess I mind less if it's a front mounted one. I originally and still prefer a rear mount only b/c it's more stealth.
- Although stealth look would be nice, I'm really starting to like the "frog style" battery mount that secures directly to the seat post w/o a fullon rack. Surely the battery is exposed and not in a bag, but that'll save me money on having to buy a bag to hide the thing. Plus there's easier access when I need to charge it. Or maybe I'm just trying to convince myself the non-stealth look is okay.
- Black spokes is sorta important to me. I'm painting my other wheel this week, so maybe it's just not a big deal to just paint it black if it comes silver.
- Thumb throttle for sure b/c I have a twist grip shifter for the bike currently and as I understand it, thumb throttle is the only thing that will give me enough room to reach all the controls on the handlebar.

[Drunkskunk]

- 24v or 36v? ..... I know 24v gives me more range and less pressure on the motor. It's also cheaper and in turn so will the battery. So maybe 24v? Please share input on this.

No. the oppisite is true. all things being equil, the higher voltage is better.

This may be a bit techy, but what drives the motor is watts. And Watts are a combination of amps and volts. Specificly, Amps X Volts = Watts. So if you have less voltage, you need more amps to make the same amount of watts. And it's excessive amps that cause heat problems for motors, not excessive voltage.

As for cost, its generaly based on the watt hours of a battery, So a 24V 10AH battery will be cheaper than a 36v 10ah battery, but will also have 1/3 less capacity, and 1/3 less range. a 24v 15Ah battery has 360 watthours capacity. the same as a 36V 10Ah battery. they would be made out of the same number of cells, be the same size and weight, and cost the same.

The 10Ah = 10 miles range is true-ish,for 20mph on flat ground. But thats at 36 volts. Its a good rule of thumb for planning a bike, giving a very rough base for figuring your needs.

a 250w motor is tiny, and doesn't have much power. when running on flat ground, a 250w and a 500w will actualy be using the same power (say, around 200watts at 15mph). But the 500w has more ability to climb hills, accelerate out of the way of danger, and get over obsticles. a 250w will also overheat long before a 500w will.

No worries on the brakes. any brake capable of stoping you will be capable of stoping a stock Ebike motor, even up to the 1000W size. The recomendations for disk brakes with big motors here have nothing to do with the motor's power, but with the speeds involved. the brakes have to deal with 4 times more kenetic energy at 40mph compared to 20mph, and if you're often traveling at 40mph, stock brakes won't survive long. But at 20mph, they'll last forever, or very nearly. The only thing to be concerned with at 20mph is that you have 2 brakes of some kind, and they both work correctly.

[wesnewell]

They've been saying the number aH is often times equal to the range in number of miles. So 10ah = 10 mile range. That sounds good. I don't need much more than that.

10Ah at what voltage with which motor. It's not really that simple. 10ah@24V will only go half as far as 10ah@48V on the same motor at the same speed. It's all about WH. Ah is just a factor in the equation.

- 10ah battery
- 24v or 36v? Hmmmm...haven't decided that one yet. I know 24v gives me more range and less pressure on the motor. It's also cheaper and in turn so will the battery. So maybe 24v? Please share input on this.

You've got that wrong. 10ah@24v=240wh. 10ah@36v=360wh. 50% more range at same speed.

- 250w motor will get me 16-20mph while 500w would get me probably 18-21mph, right? So 250w's okay?

The speed you get will depend on how many volts you use. I get about 22mph on a 500W motor @48v. I get over 30mph with the same motor @66v.
Under $500 will get you 30mph with a 10 mile range. I already told you how.

[kmxtornado]

Taking everyone's recommendations into consideration (thank you for the links and comments gentlemen), I'm narrowing down my options for kits. Perhaps you guys can say a few words about these lithium setups. If you recommend alternatives, please make sure the batteries are a pre-built pack and not raw. I don't know anything about making connectors and wrapping it and all that jazz. Plus I'm a bit paranoid about exploding batteries as one of my RC batteries in the past when I was younger had burnt while charging and scared the @#$@$ out of me.

1. BMS Battery Kit: http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-kits/383-250w350w-q-85100sx-motor-bike-conversion-kit.html
w/this battery: http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/183-36v-10ah-lithium-ion-electric-bicycle-battery-pack.html

2. Cell Man's kit: http://www.emissions-free.com/catalog/i16.html
w/the same battery as above.

3. YescomUSA's kit: http://www.yescomusa.com/product.php?productid=725&cat=91&page=1
w/again, the same battery as above b/c I like the size, the price is right and it looks like the capacity is what I need (right?).

4. Prodeco 26" kit for $500 (discounted at local store): http://www.prodecotech.com/prodeco_009.htm
Includes battery. This system is the weakest, but the reviews on this brand is good, the seller is local, good warranty, and includes the battery.

Thoughts?

BATTERY SELECTION QUESTIONS (from a newb):
What am I getting out of this: http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/the-8/36V-10AH-V2.5-LiFePO4/Detail
or this: http://www.emissions-free.com/catalog/i25.html

...that I'm NOT getting with this: http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/183-36v-10ah-lithium-ion-electric-bicycle-battery-pack.html

[amberwolf]

BATTERY SELECTION QUESTIONS (from a newb):
What am I getting out of this: http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/the-8/36V-10AH-V2.5-LiFePO4/Detail
or this: http://www.emissions-free.com/catalog/i25.html

...that I'm NOT getting with this: http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/183-36v-10ah-lithium-ion-electric-bicycle-battery-pack.html

Support and customer service, including warranty help. (well, you *might* get those with BMSBattery, but I certainly wouldn't count on it...or timely shipping after order, etc. Take a look around ES for people's varied success with that company).

[kmxtornado]

But the prices are 50% more or even double! If something goes wrong, couldn't I just buy another one of the cheap ones? It'd still be almost the same price. $2x179 vs $350. There are no other spec differences that I'm missing?

[ty cohen]

I thought about the cost issue on the bms or yescomusa kit versus the cell man kits and while it's not just cost, its also the compatibilty of the controller, battery and motor to one another. you are mixing up parts from different suppliers and the connectors will probably be different, plus, one kits instructions may be different than the others, or you may have not enough or too many leads on one part. I originally wanted to go with bms battery or yescomusa. while other members have had good sucess with these companies, there are an equal number of members who have had less than stellar results. with cell man, i've never heard of bad things from him. while I haven't gotten a rig set up yet, i most likely will end up with cell man, even though he can be 50 percent more expensive. big jump in prices, but piece of mind is worth it. I had a bad experience with my nine continents rig I don't want to experience another bad experience with bms or yescom. i don't get the feeling i'll be getting a bad expererience with cell man though.

[izeman]

ooos. that thread grew faster than i could read
you already saw my ride. and that's exactly what i would recommend to buy. i can easily do 1mi with 10% and pedaling a bit. i know sf's hills and they can be very steep - almost identicall what i have here in austria.
most of what dogman recommended imho is perfect. go for the 500w torque version of the mac geared hub motor but with 9fet controller so you can run 1500w thru it. if you don't plan to do more than 15mi it may be sufficient to go with 2x 6s1p packs of the 8000mah zippys from hobbyking. this will bring down battery costs lot. cabeling will be easier as well. and you can go with a dual lipo charge or a single icharger capable of 10a charging. you may want to check soemother threads about safety precautions on lipo handing, charging and so on ...

you will definetely need some strong torque arms. if you have a friend capable of doing that for you it will be cheaper. i paid $35 for the two i have. stainless steel laser cut. but i'm a techical engineer knowing how to use autocad to make the drawings for the cnc machine.

so to sum up costs:
$400 for mac with 9fet
$150 for the batteries and some cable and connectors
$20 for the thumb switch or any other kind you will need depending of the shifters you have installed
$50-100 for the torque arms - if you don't know how to build them by your own
$100 for the charger
$100 for a proper rim and spokes installed
$50 for a saddle bag big enough for your batteries
those are rough esrimates and you may have to add p&p as well as customs as apropriate.

so it IS a bit costy, but for me it was worth it.

have fun! (you will, i know *ggg*)

[dogman]

I've heard good things about the yes kits, more than the good feedback for bms battery. Mostly gripes about bms battery are about slow arrival of stuff. For a small gearmotor, and do go ahead and get the rear one, a 10 ah 36v ping will be perfect. But it will not run a bigger motor later. The frog battery would work fine too. Nothing wrong with entering the ebike world on a budget. But do prepare yourself for wanting a real hill climber later. It's definitely addicting.

Too bad you have such a small budget, there are guys in SF that sell ebikes, such as High Tek Bikes. A few hundred more and you could buy from a guy with local CS.

[kmxtornado]

ooos. that thread grew faster than i could read
you already saw my ride. and that's exactly what i would recommend to buy. i can easily do 1mi with 10% and pedaling a bit. i know sf's hills and they can be very steep - almost identicall what i have here in austria.
most of what dogman recommended imho is perfect. go for the 500w torque version of the mac geared hub motor but with 9fet controller so you can run 1500w thru it. if you don't plan to do more than 15mi it may be sufficient to go with 2x 6s1p packs of the 8000mah zippys from hobbyking. this will bring down battery costs lot. cabeling will be easier as well. and you can go with a dual lipo charge or a single icharger capable of 10a charging. you may want to check soemother threads about safety precautions on lipo handing, charging and so on ...

you will definetely need some strong torque arms. if you have a friend capable of doing that for you it will be cheaper. i paid $35 for the two i have. stainless steel laser cut. but i'm a techical engineer knowing how to use autocad to make the drawings for the cnc machine.

so to sum up costs:
$400 for mac with 9fet
$150 for the batteries and some cable and connectors
$20 for the thumb switch or any other kind you will need depending of the shifters you have installed
$50-100 for the torque arms - if you don't know how to build them by your own
$100 for the charger
$100 for a proper rim and spokes installed
$50 for a saddle bag big enough for your batteries
those are rough estimates and you may have to add p&p as well as customs as appropriate.

so it IS a bit costy, but for me it was wortlh it.

have fun! (you will, i know *ggg*)

Wow, thanks for all the work. I looked up the website for the battery you recommended but unfortunately I'm such a newb that I don't know how it hooks up.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=16228
How does this thing connect to the controller?

I know CAD too, but it's from architecture. Though my uncle works with CNC machines, I don't know much about those.

I've heard good things about the yes kits, more than the good feedback for bms battery. Mostly gripes about bms battery are about slow arrival of stuff. For a small gearmotor, and do go ahead and get the rear one, a 10 ah 36v ping will be perfect. But it will not run a bigger motor later. The frog battery would work fine too. Nothing wrong with entering the ebike world on a budget. But do prepare yourself for wanting a real hill climber later. It's definitely addicting.

Too bad you have such a small budget, there are guys in SF that sell ebikes, such as High Tek Bikes. A few hundred more and you could buy from a guy with local CS.

Thanks for the referral! I wish I saw your post earlier. I would have headed over there today. Ugh. I was busy this morning/afternoon working on my bike frame. I've finally primed the sucker. Have a look at my blog. Just click the little link in my sig to see the current status.

[kmxtornado]

I know from you guys' responses that the MAC 500 kit will kick butt over the rest up hills, but can you guys compare and contrast the other following kits specifically (not necessarily hill related)? Remember I'm a complete newb. I know bikes (see my project blog), but I don't know electricity. If I have to buy some sort of adapter or end thing to fit the battery to the controller, I'll need to be spoon fed on that...plllleeease. I don't want to blow anything up. I'm really narrowing things down and would like to make a decision fairly soon. As experts, I take all your comments to heart.

In no particular order (although the random order happens to be from cheapest to most expensive),....

1. BMS Battery Kit: http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-kits/383-250w350w-q-85100sx-motor-bike-conversion-kit.html
w/this battery: http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/183-36v-10ah-lithium-ion-electric-bicycle-battery-pack.html
If I'm reading this correctly, none of my other considerations beats this price. It's mainly the battery that's cheaper. Can I use this battery with any of the other kits below? How do the plugs work? Any work I need to do to customize the fitting?
Cost: $119(kit) + $179(battery) + $109.25(shipping) = $407.25

2a. Cell Man's MXUS 36v 350w kit: http://www.emissions-free.com/catalog/i16.html
Since I don't know what I'm doing, I need to buy the battery at the same source as the kit. If this isn't true for a newbie, please enlighten me with other options. This is the only front mounted motor on my list. So far, the price is:
Cost: $175(kit) + $350 (39v 9.2ah battery) + $55(charger) = $580 + $? (shipping). Anybody know what shipping is to California?

or

2b. Cell Man's MAC 500w kit: http://www.emissions-free.com/catalog/i22.html
w/the same battery as above. This is the only kit that doesn't have a tiny motor like the rest. I really would like a stealth look. I don't need to be superman on this thing and with the price and look of the motor, it's not one of my favorites.
Cost: $350(kit) + $350 (39v 9.2ah battery) + $55(charger) = $755 + $? (shipping)..

3. I am no longer considering the YescomUSA
I don't like the look of the big motor. I don't mind spending $100 more on a better kit and I won't be using that charger or bag anyway b/c I'm not using SLA batteries for sure. The price is just too close to the better kits.

4. I am no longer considering the Prodeco kit
After some further thought, I've decided to dismiss the Prodeco kit I had been considering. Even though it's $500 (less than $800), I figure I need more power than 24v 250w if I'm going to spend hundreds of dollars anyway. It seems to pricey for a kit of that spec even though I'd get local support.

5.The Hightekbike Mini motor kit https://hightekbikes.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=10
I found this after a few more hours of research last night. I love the stealth look (but I can get that with the BMS kit too). This motor's only 6lbs! That's nuts. Should I worry about it being underpowered compared to the other choices I'm considering? And especially at the higher price point, it does concern me. I love that I can get this locally. But boy does the price hurt. Someone please tell me this is a good kit. I read the review by another member, but hoping to get more feedback on this fella.
Cost: $350(kit) + $404(battery) + $50 (charger) = $804, ouch I hope tax is included. I'm local, so I'll go pick it up. No shipping.

[dogman]

I'd say the motor 1,2 and the High tek are pretty much going to perform the same. Tax will be paid on the High tek I bet. But having your seller in the same town can be priceless if you ever have a problem to troubleshoot. The prices are not so high for once they are on this side of the pond.

I've dealt with him before, and he's OK.

[kmxtornado]

Thanks for the response. In that case, #2 is out b/c the cost is too similar to #3. How about #1 though? That BMS price is definitely much cheaper than the Hightek one and perhaps even worth the lack of support. Any words for the BMS kit? I've read that it takes forever and some more to get anything from them shipped. Here and there I've read some people like BMS and some people have had bad experiences. So I guess it's a gamble. But at the price point, maybe it's worth it. Thoughts?

[Gordo]

Thanks for the response. In that case, #2 is out b/c the cost is too similar to #3. How about #1 though? That BMS price is definitely much cheaper than the Hightek one and perhaps even worth the lack of support. Any words for the BMS kit? I've read that it takes forever and some more to get anything from them shipped. Here and there I've read some people like BMS and some people have had bad experiences. So I guess it's a gamble. But at the price point, maybe it's worth it. Thoughts?

If I was going to deal with BMS (and I'm not) I would get the name and email address of one person and ask all the questions you have asked on ES, of that person. After 5-6 emails I would clearly outline my concerns with their record of slow shipping, and not being responsive after they have your money. Cut and paste some of the complaints and ask for explanation before you order. Get assurances that the "KIT" is plug and play, that the controller colours match the motor and throttle. Ask for a copy of the instructions in English. Spend as much time on them as you have here, and maybe, just maybe, you will have better luck than many.
If you have a problem, you won't have to spend time trying to get a solution. They simply ignore you, once they have your money.
What is it worth to have a pissed wife, 10 miles from home, on a dead POS you don't understand? For some, "saving" $200 on $700 is all important. For others, spending an extra $200 to begin with makes more sense that ending up with junk and having wasted $500 and the agony that goes with it. Do you know that even if they replace the entire kit "FREE", you will pay the shipping cost, BOTH WAYS, which will cost close to your initial price?
Please consider buying locally?

[kmxtornado]

Okay, you scared me enough away from BMS. My decisions been made to go with the Mini-mite kit. I'll let everyone know how it goes. In the meantime, feel free to post warnings about anything I should know about. I'm currently looking for new bike components since I'm restoring my 12 yr old bike. Thinking of sticking with my twist grip shifters unless there's a big reason why I should switch up to something else.

Oh and what does, "350 watt nominal, 500 watt peak" mean?

UPDATE: 10/30/11
Terry replied to my email asking about this and here's his reply (I'm sure he won't mind me reposting this publicly):
The motor will run at 350 W all day without over heating. It will run at 500W for a limited time without overheating.

[kmxtornado]

Okay guys. Your hard work helping me select a kit wasn't a waste of your time - at least to me it wasn't. I bought the kit! I finally took the plunge and purchased from Terry over at Hightekbikes (lots more details and pics in my blog. See my sig). How did I finally decide to choose this kit?

IT WAS MIDRANGE IN PRICE:
I bit the bullet and decided my $400-500 pricerange wasn't reasonable. The battery itself is like $350-450, right? Ugh. Still recovering from my headache about that. From what you guys told me either here or in the forum someplace, kits cost $400-$1,200 depending on lots of things. I wasn't about to spend $1k or anything close to that, so my budget was pretty much $500-$750. It hit that mark. Still tough to swallow, but hopefully I'll feel more like it's worth it once this kit's installed. Was what I got more expensive than if I were to buy from ebay or any other website or even the famous Cell_Man? Yes, but I think it was worth it. If I knew more about this electronics stuff, I might've gone to another source. Being so new though, I felt more comfortable paying a bit more for a local dealer. More on that below.

I TOOK A TESTRIDE AND KNEW 36V WAS FOR ME:
Len from Electric Bike Outlet was very nice and treated me amazingly well on my test ride day. The only reason I didn't go with him is that he didn't offer the kit I was looking for. He's more local and put a lot more work into helping me and I totally would have bought from him if he was selling the stuff I was looking for. His hub kits are all 24v (He's always expanding inventory, so ask him if you're looking for something specific in the future). He's selling 'em for good deals to make room for new 36v Prodeco kits coming in for 2012. I wanted a stealth kit with a smaller sized motor which could still get some performance umph. He sells a couple kits but his company is more focused on pre-built e-bikes of which he's got a good selection. He's got great deals on demo models if anyone's looking for an e-bike in the Bay Area. Knowledgeable, professional - everything you'd want in a dealer. I recommend him. I took the test ride at 5pm and he didn't rush me at all. The limits we had were that the sun was coming down and neither one of us wanted me to be riding in the dark if we could help it. We even finished the evening off with a glass of water (although he had offered me beer too which I had turned down).

Thanks Len. I know it was bit unfair that you gave a test ride and I ended up buying from someone else, but it wasn't b/c of price b/c this thing was pricier than the kits you were offering me. It literally came down to the type of kit. Hopefully though, taking the 2.5 hours with me was worth getting a happy would-be customer who can speak highly of you. I'm no celebrity, but I'll definitely help spread the word about what you're doing for the e-bike world in the Bay Area. I'll maintain high regard for you and will point people in the direction of your shop if they're looking for pre-built bikes. I'm sure there's plenty of people who would rather just get up and go than to go through all the trouble like I did of crazy amounts of researching and still have to go through the labor of installing the kit. Oh and Len's got a few e-folding bikes too if anyone's looking for some of those.

STEALTH LOOK:
I really wanted the stealth look. Not everyone cares, but I guess I'm just picky about this sorta thing. It's no secret that the bike is an ebike, but at the same time it doesn't need to be a big announcement. I want the bike to look more low key but still cool and worth a second look. The Mini Mite was almost perfect. The motor's physical size matched what I was looking for. The only way it could be better is if the spokes were black. Instead, they're bright chrome - super thick spokes look like the depth of Popsicle sticks.

HIGHTEKBIKES HAD GOOD REVIEWS:
When there's positive things people say about a company and literally nothing bad (that I've read so far), then it's something you can really trust - and I did. Although I haven't had a chance to test the unit yet since it's still sitting in the garage and I'm spending time writing this update instead of installing it, I can say Terry's a down to earth fella. He's responded to my emails even during after hours answering each and every question I had. One could say I'm not the easiest customer. Terry helped me out really well.

LOCAL DEALER:
Don't expect Terry to deliver the unit to your house, but he did for me. He happened to be in my area so I took him up his offer. Terry actually arrived more or less within the 2-3pm window he gave me. Terry delivered the kit to my house on a weekend! If that's not superb customer service, I don't know what is.

I can't imagine any other dealer going to my house to deliver a package in person and showing me how all the components go together. All the bad stuff I've been hearing (reading) about BMS Battery (although there were plenty of good things too) made me shy away. Plus as a newbie, I really wanted someone local. Especially since I know jack squat about this stuff, it helps to have someone local that can help me with any issues that come up. Another reason I ended up buying from Terry is b/c the correspondence happened so quickly. He literally replied to my first email w/in the hour and it was past 10pm. I know it was buy chance b/c I don't expect all dealers to carry around smart phones checking their email 24/7. A lot of it was luck, but Terry took the effort to reply during after hours which helped the sale. If I'm waiting for responses from a number of people, the first one to respond usually gets most of my attention - especially if the response is specific and geared towards my questions and aren't just generic replies.

Little teaser pic. The rest are on my blog. More to come when I finally put this thing together. Tomorrow being Halloween, I don't think this thing's coming together until Tuesday night at the earliest. I can't wait. I'm putting a 7-speed 11-34T Shimano Megarange Freewheel on this bad boy! Glad I saved it b/c they don't make 'em anymore and no one sells it (I should know b/c I called all SF bike shops looking for a second one - yes, that's over 20 shops).

[kmxtornado]

I've been reading all the threads - literally at least 15 of them with multiple pages and it seems that people are saying the seatpost ones are no good and won't last long. My battery however is quite light weight. It's the cube version of the Hightekbikes one that's only a bit over 8lbs:
http://www.hightekbikes.com/battery.html

As long as a rack limit is 4x my battery weight, it should hold over bumps and last me....forever, right? Axiom seems like what everyone recommends. I don't have any plans to use panniers and really like the simplicity of a seatpost rack. So the question is should I stick with a seatpost one since I like the clean look of it and my battery weight doesn't demand a high limit, or should I really go for the regular type that has posts connected to the rear axle? I get that the latter is more highly recommend for people with SLA's or much heavier 20-something lbs batteries, but mine is a tiny 8 pounder.

I'm trying to decide btw these three. As you guys know, I take your thoughts into very strong consideration. Please share with me what you think of my choices. Thanks!

1. Delta Cycle Megarack:
http://www.amazon.com/Delta-Mega-Post-Haste-Bicycle/dp/B000ACAMF6/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3MWQ9C2QQ69ST&colid=1DUKGHHQBUSAU

2. Eleven81:
http://www.amazon.com/Eleven81-Alloy-Limit-Black-LIMIT/dp/B001D4S9Q4/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=IOKO25GEII233&colid=1DUKGHHQBUSAU
I like that this one is super short and just plain simple.

3. Axiom Phoenix:
http://www.amazon.com/Axiom-Phoenix-White-Frame-Black/dp/B0025UGFP2/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I158I50KBNFXE3&colid=1DUKGHHQBUSAU
The color's perfect! It'll match the blue bike and I can always put it on my white one (Specialized Hardrock in restoration) if I ever want to switch. I guess I'm just not a fan of black, but if this thing really sucks, it would be good to know. High rated by the two buyers so far.